[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by jraj

Sir , isn’t it pushing it too far comparing the 84th air depot with the HAL of today ?

Moreso ,when the aircraft built today by HAL has a mix of Russian and Israeli avionics .

Dear @jraj, the Liberator was comparably complex for 1948 what the Su-30MKI is for today. And HAL of 1948 did a large part of the job without manufacturing drawings making do instead with only maintenance drawings. HAL struggles to assemble and deliver the 24 aircraft a year the IAF wants. 2 machines a month is a very low level of output and even that they struggle with.

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Dear @jraj, the Liberator was comparably complex for 1948 what the Su-30MKI is for today. And HAL of 1948 did a large part of the job without manufacturing drawings making do instead with only maintenance drawings. HAL struggles to assemble and deliver the 24 aircraft a year the IAF wants. 2 machines a month is a very low level of output and even that they struggle with.

!!RANT BEGIN!!
That is indeed the difference. The mindset of HAL employees was a completely different one back then to that of the current generation. Having experienced in first hand the attitude and mentality of HAL Sukoi division, I can simply say that they shouldn't be granted the 100 million loan to pay the salaries. Not all are bad but... let me stop here. Better if less said!
!!RANT END!!

An interesting info for youngsters like me is the reason how Navy got its long-range maritime fleet. Does the Navy also coordinate with the AWACS of the Airforce when it is out on patrol? This way a complete network centric warfare can be achieved. The Naval patrols linking info to the AWACS and vice versa and all the information gets back to base for fighters standing by or enroute or the air defence units on ground. It will be a sheer waste of resource if the P-8Is and the AWACS of airforce do not talk to each other.

How many sorties will a Foxbat fly per day usually? Given the 1 hour mission time, how much of a recon work can actually be done? I can imagine the work load on a fully manual flying sortie of any MiG-25 could be! Though a highly stable jet, it must have been a nightmare to fly/navigate and land these during stormy weather conditions with the inertial navigation system. It would be quite strenous for the pilots if they were to be asked to get airborne again during the same day for another mission. Hats off to these brave Officers and ground crew who kept these beautiful machines airworthy.

[navin]

Originally Posted by smartcat

Not much difference apparently, according to Lockheed Martin.
Israeli Air Force & UAE Air Force F-16s have CFTs:

Originally Posted by Czarcarsm

The original F16 is still the king in the F16 series. Pakistan has the newer block 52 as well, with more advanced electronics etc.

I believe that even the PAF Block 52 versions will have CFTs.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by AlphaKilo

! Though a highly stable jet, it must have been a nightmare to fly/navigate and land these during stormy weather conditions with the inertial navigation system..

I would be interested to understand what the inertial navigation system has to do with landing during stormy weather?

I am familiar with inertial navigation systems on commercial jets. But it plays no role during landing.
Thanks
Jeroen

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I would be interested to understand what the inertial navigation system has to do with landing during stormy weather?

I am familiar with inertial navigation systems on commercial jets. But it plays no role during landing.
Thanks
Jeroen

I never said it plays a role in landing. I just said navigating/approach/orienting (should have been more precise) in stormy weather. The "INS" from those days were quite sensitive to thermal changes.

[V.Narayan]

Dear IAF enthusiasts, National Geographic will screen a documentary on the IAF this Republic Day on both 25th and 26th of January at 9PM.

https://scroll.in/reel/910428/nation...n-republic-day

[ads11]

All too frequent but sad news once more for the IAF:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/fighter-je...--finance.html

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/pilo...ency-a-1986556

I'm sorry to bring up a well worn argument but given the proximity to HAL's facilities and the fact that the Mirage's were being upgraded there, I can't help but feel that old migraine come up again as I can't help but think this is ineptitude on HAL's part costing our forces dear once more. Nonetheless I'll warily wait till the official investigation results.

I wonder how it would play out if the finger of blame was pointed at HAL just as they continue to be at the centre of the political storm raging over the Rafale deal. Again, I can't muster myself to have sympathy for HAL as an institution.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Dear IAF enthusiasts, National Geographic will screen a documentary on the IAF this Republic Day on both 25th and 26th of January at 9PM.

https://scroll.in/reel/910428/nation...n-republic-day

I'd really like to see this but I'm not sure how I can get about to finding it online unless it's on a streaming service and even then I'll likely have to VPN. Basically any links would be appreciated folks!

[PetrolRider]

Originally Posted by ads11

I'd really like to see this but I'm not sure how I can get about to finding it online unless it's on a streaming service and even then I'll likely have to VPN. Basically any links would be appreciated folks!

It is available in Hotstar under non-premium section.

[Ironhide]

A recent report says that India is considering a proposal to buy additional 21 MiG 29 aircraft from Russia upgraded to MiG 29UPG standard. Apparently these were to be built for the Russian Air Force. Quoting the article in Broadsword Blog

Wednesday, 13 February 2019
IAF wants to accept Russian offer for 21 surplus MiG-29 fighters

These 21 fighters were built in the 1980s by MiG, but the Russian Air Force could not afford them

By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 13th Feb 19

The understrength Indian Air Force (IAF), already making do by extending the life of its MiG-29, Mirage 2000 and Jaguar fleet, is now evaluating an unexpected windfall from Moscow – for a brand new squadron of upgraded MiG-29 multi-role fighters.

These 21 fighters were built in the 1980s by Russian firm, RAC MiG, for the Russian Air Force, which eventually could not muster up the money to pay for them.

For three decades, these aircraft have lain unused; their wings stored separate from their bodies. Now, the IAF has been invited to buy them at the price they were built – which is below $25 million (Rs 175 crore). That is cheaper even than the Tejas Mark 1 fighter.

“A high-level IAF team has returned from Russia, where we found the MiG-29s to be in excellent condition. They could make an excellent addition to our fleet and we are submitting a positive report,” said a senior air marshal who is directly involved in air force acquisitions.

The IAF inducted the MiG-29 in the late-1980s after the United States supplied the Pakistan Air Force the F-16 Falcon fighter. Since then, the IAF has operated three MiG-29 squadrons: called “First Supersonics”, “Black Archers” and “Tridents”. Two of these squadrons are based in Adampur, Punjab and the third in Jamnagar, Gujarat.

The IAF’s existing 69 MiG-29s are currently undergoing a $900 million mid-life upgrade to the MiG-29UPG standard. While the old MiG-29s were mainly twin-engine, air-superiority fighters, optimised for air-to-air combat with enemy fighters, the far more capable MiG-29UPG is a “multi-role fighter” that is also equipped and armed to strike ground targets.

In addition, with the addition of large capacity fuel tanks and mid-air refuelling capability, the IAF regards its MiG-29UPGs as long-range, multi-role fighters.

“These are without question the most capable MiG-29s flying anywhere in the world,” said the IAF air marshal.

Russia has confirmed that it will upgrade the 21 MiG-29s now being offered to the same standard as IAF’s other three MiG-29UPG squadrons. That would add another $15 million or so to each fighter’s price.

In addition to the IAF’s fleet of MiG-29UPGs, the Indian Navy operates the MiG-29K/KUB variant off the aircraft carrier, INS Vikramaditya. This variant will also fly from the INS Vikrant, when it is delivered in 2020-21.

Photo Courtesy : http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/

Another article reporting the same. This however says

Sources said this also rules out any additional orders for Su-30 MKI to the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) except for the nine aircraft that the IAF might order to replace the ones that crashed.

Could it be attributed to the fact that SU-30 MKI produced by HAL at Rs 417.69 Crores are 55% costlier than those made in Russia (at Rs 269.77 crores) and there may be a cash crunch presently. Just thinking aloud.
All said and done, if this deal comes through, it'll be a small shot in the arm for the depleting fighting aircraft squadron strength of the India Air Force.

Photos Courtesy : Livefist blog / (c) Marina Lystsewa

Cheers !

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Ironhide

A recent report says that India is considering a proposal to buy additional 21 MiG 29 aircraft from Russia upgraded to MiG 29UPG standard[/url]. Apparently these were to be built for the Russian Air Force.

At least something. While they are at it why nor order 3 or 4 or 5 squadrons. we have lost 15 years on the '126' embroglio. A MiG-29 UPG may not be a Rafale but it is good enough and it is integrated into our logistics-training-maintenance protocol. Did not understand why only 21.

[PGA]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

At least something. While they are at it why nor order 3 or 4 or 5 squadrons. we have lost 15 years on the '126' embroglio. A MiG-29 UPG may not be a Rafale but it is good enough and it is integrated into our logistics-training-maintenance protocol. Did not understand why only 21.

There is book very aptly titled 'Arming without Aiming' by Stephen Cohen and Sunil Dasgupta. Though written a couple of years ago, I see no change in the sit even today. A ppt of the book is available online and is linked below.

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content...powerpoint.pdf

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

At least something. While they are at it why nor order 3 or 4 or 5 squadrons. we have lost 15 years on the '126' embroglio. A MiG-29 UPG may not be a Rafale but it is good enough and it is integrated into our logistics-training-maintenance protocol. Did not understand why only 21.

The way I understood things after reading a Livefist article yesterday on this topic (I remember that the pic of the airframes shared here is from their article) - it's just a quick-win for us and a win-win overall for India and the Mikhoyan Gurevich company. They've had these airframes since the '80s and they're giving us a good bargain on them. I'm sure if there were 50 of them, our Air Force would have lapped all of them up. I understand a team of our officials was there recently to inspect the airframes and they were very happy with what we're getting.

[V.Narayan]

^^^^
PGA, Locusjag, thank you for your inputs. Unfinished airframes being lapped up sounds sensible. Happy to see our links with Mikayan continuing. We were their best foreign customer and brand ambassador.

[sgiitk]

Three 'Rafales have touched down in Bangalore today. Two are trainers and one the single seater warplane. It will be a good first sight for many of us, incl the potential pilots. They had a tanker with them. The tanker has been sent to the civilian airport.

Let us get a good first sight and enjoy it.

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Three 'Rafales have touched down in Bangalore today. Two are trainers and one the single seater warplane. It will be a good first sight for many of us, incl the potential pilots. They had a tanker with them. The tanker has been sent to the civilian airport.

Let us get a good first sight and enjoy it.

Are these the ones slated for delivery in fly-away condition? Why a tanker? Is the tanker an A330MRT? If yes, then for sure these are display jets and are not deliveries. So, it seems fighter pilots also get test drive vehicles from the showroom.

This sounds like they have sent the display jets to gather some brownie points before the actual deliveries begin. I am sure the Pilots from the future Rafael squadron would have already begun with their training/conversion by now. So these jets shouldn't come as new to them.