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Old 14th February 2019, 20:32   #406
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Default Re: Report Says India Considering to Purchase Additional 21 MiG 29 from Russia

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Originally Posted by Ironhide View Post
IAF has been invited to buy them at the price they were built – which is below $25 million (Rs 175 crore)...Russia has confirmed that it will upgrade the 21 MiG-29s now being offered to the same standard as IAF’s other three MiG-29UPG squadrons. That would add another $15 million or so to each fighter’s price.
At these prices, it sounds like a really good deal that has little potential of being used as political cannon fodder for now. The best thing it has going for it is that it comes across as a win win for both parties. My only concern however and I really really really hope the IAF delegation has this set in stone with the Russians is that the upgrade cost is FIXED. Any set backs have to be borne by the contractor instead of the buyer. (Again I might be wrong but I think the USAF had a similar deal for their new aerial refuelling tankers - KC46)
ie - not another Vikramaditya situation! Delays and cost overruns. Nope nope nope.

Best case scenario is that by the time these jets make it to the IAF, they'll be making up for whatever was inevitably lost in the intervening span of time rather than bolstering total numbers.

PS: AlphaKilo, maybe you could check a flight path tracker to see if those Rafales made it all the way to India in one stint? That could explain why they had a tanker with them to get them over in one jaunt.

Last edited by ads11 : 14th February 2019 at 20:35. Reason: Answering a previous question
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Old 14th February 2019, 21:05   #407
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Default Re: Report Says India Considering to Purchase Additional 21 MiG 29 from Russia

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Originally Posted by ads11 View Post
...

PS: AlphaKilo, maybe you could check a flight path tracker to see if those Rafales made it all the way to India in one stint? That could explain why they had a tanker with them to get them over in one jaunt.
I am sure that they cannot make it to India from France in one tank! Rafale has an operational range of 4 - 5 hrs and with additional tank it can go upto 8 hours.
(Pun intended: Unless they flew on aviation diesel and low resistance airframe or if the jets were fine tuned by Maruti Engineers for fuel efficiency )

Usually on delivery flights, they always take a break. IAF always halts in Doha or Muscat, as they are friendly bases. May be they carried their own fuel with them to avoid refuelling once in India, which would mean they are display jets and not delivery.

The Hindu says:

Quote:
The first aircraft built by Dassault Aviation for the IAF, a two-seater variant, made its maiden flight on October 30 in France and is designated RB 008, according to official sources.

“RB stands for Air Marshal R.K.S. Bhadauria as he had a major role in the contract negotiations,” an official source said.

Air Marshal Bhadauria was the Deputy Chief of the IAF during the contract negotiations for 36 Rafale jets and is presently the Air Officer Commanding-In-Chief of the IAF’s Training Command. In September 2016, India and France signed a €7.87 billion Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) for 36 Rafale multi-role fighter jets in fly-away condition.

The surprise announcement for the 36 aircraft was made by Prime Minister Narendra Modi during a visit to Paris in April 2015, citing “critical operational necessity” of the IAF. RB 008 will be the 36th aircraft to be delivered to the IAF in 2022, 67 months after the contract is signed, the source added.

As per terms of the IGA, deliveries will begin 36 months after the signing of the contract and be completed in 67 months.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...le25447123.ece

Here says, the first birds are expected in September 2019:

Quote:
Meanwhile, sources said, four of the balance 35 Rafale fighter aircraft will be in the production line at Dassault’s plant in Bordeaux at the beginning of next year. This, sources said, is as per schedule and will lead to delivery of the first French fighter jet to IAF in September 2019. The last Rafale would join the IAF from France by April 2022.
https://indianexpress.com/article/in...-made-5345837/

Last edited by AlphaKilo : 14th February 2019 at 21:11. Reason: Added the information from press.
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Old 14th February 2019, 23:40   #408
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Default Re: Report Says India Considering to Purchase Additional 21 MiG 29 from Russia

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Originally Posted by AlphaKilo View Post
Usually on delivery flights, they always take a break. IAF always halts in Doha or Muscat, as they are friendly bases. May be they carried their own fuel with them to avoid refuelling once in India, which would mean they are display jets and not delivery.
Yes, they are here for Aero India and not for delivery.

Quote:

The last port for the Rafales before reaching Bengaluru was Al Dhafra Air base in UAE. The Rafales were accompanied by a mother aircraft, a tanker, over the Benagluru skies.
News link
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Old 20th February 2019, 11:51   #409
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indi...home-topscroll

Unmanned and manned aircraft working together.
HAL is developing this along with a startup. Just wondering if its too much for the pilot to handle the unmanned drones accompanying his aircraft and trying to feed commands to them. Cant be part of dogfight I guess.

Last edited by srishiva : 20th February 2019 at 11:53.
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Old 21st February 2019, 21:28   #410
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

World’s lightest fighter plane ‘ready for battle’; FOC certification for Mark I Tejas
Hindu, 20-2-2019

https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities...le26323511.ece

Quote:
Mark I Tejas, the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) designed and developed in India, on Wednesday overcame its last hurdle by finally bagging what is called the FOC certification.

The FOC or final operational clearance, coming on the first day of Aero India 2019, certifies that the world’s lightest fighter plane is “ready for battle.”

Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd is also ready to start producing 16 LCAs in the improved FOC version, HAL CMD R.Madhavan said. The first 16 are almost fully delivered in the intermediate IOC.

Air Chief Marshal Dhanoa noted that Tejas has shown its fire power over its 1,500 sorties.Calling the FOC a milestone for LCA Mk1, he said, "You saw today how the aircraft flew and the sorties it made. During Gaganshakti of April 2018 and in last week's Vayushakti also it accurately dispensed weapons on the target and delivered in air to air combat."

As for formally placing an approved but pending order for 83 LCAs, the Chief of Air Staff said it was a separate matter as an RFP (request for proposal) for a purchase from HAL was under process.

"After that we should take up LCA-Mk2 which is a few points above this and which in the long term would replace the [present combat fleet of] the Jaguar, the Mirage and the MiG-29. After that we go to AMCA [the fifth generation Advanced Medium combat Aircraft]" that is on the drawing board at LCA's developer, the Aeronautical Development Agency.

Declaring the FOC, DRDO Chairman G Satheesh Reddy under whom ADA functions, described it thus: "This is the best ever moment for any aeronautical engineer, and a landmark day for scientists, industry and the air force."

Mr. Madhavan said HAL and IAF would jointly finance its 1380-crore infrastructure. He recalled that the LCA is the first Indian fighter aircraft after Marut of the 1960s: 147 HF-24 Marut fighter-bomber aircraft were built by HAL and operated by the IAF between 1967 and 1990.
I wish they can produce more than 16 in a year. In the early 1980s HAL used to produce over 30 MiG-21's in a year in addition to Kiran basic jet trainers and HPT-32 primary trainers!

File photo, Wikipedia
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Last edited by V.Narayan : 21st February 2019 at 21:30.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 01:06   #411
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indi...home-topscroll

Unmanned and manned aircraft working together.
HAL is developing this along with a startup. Just wondering if its too much for the pilot to handle the unmanned drones accompanying his aircraft and trying to feed commands to them. Cant be part of dogfight I guess.
My guess: The unmanned aircraft won't be operated by the pilot of the accompanying manned aircraft. There will be a separate pilot operating it from the ground, under the instructions from the pilot of the manned aircraft or someone on ground.

Edit: I read the article just now. It does say that the drones will be assigned specific tasks by the pilots on board the manned aircraft Jaguar Max. So no one from ground controls the drones. But the article says pilots (pleural) onboard the Jaguar Max.

Does Jaguar Max has a crew of two?

Last edited by Rahul Bhalgat : 22nd February 2019 at 01:20.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 08:29   #412
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

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Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat View Post
My guess: The unmanned aircraft won't be operated by the pilot of the accompanying manned aircraft. There will be a separate pilot operating it from the ground, under the instructions from the pilot of the manned aircraft or someone on ground.

Edit: I read the article just now. It does say that the drones will be assigned specific tasks by the pilots on board the manned aircraft Jaguar Max. So no one from ground controls the drones. But the article says pilots (pleural) onboard the Jaguar Max.

Does Jaguar Max has a crew of two?
Only old Jaguars have one seat. So this could be having two seats. Jaguar is a ground attack aircraft so maybe the drones help in multiplying the targets.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 10:36   #413
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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
Only old Jaguars have one seat. So this could be having two seats. Jaguar is a ground attack aircraft so maybe the drones help in multiplying the targets.
There is nothing like 'Old' Jaguars having only one seat. Twin seat combat capable Jaguar Trainers(designated as Jaguar IT) were inducted at the same time with the single seat Jaguar IS and IMs. So twin seat Jaguars are equally old.

Last edited by skanchan95 : 22nd February 2019 at 10:37.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 11:00   #414
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

Any thoughts on Lockheed Martin selling us the idea of an "all new" F-21? I read a Popular Mechanics article yesterday on how it will only really be a F-16 by another name and with advanced features. The name "F-16" comes loaded with a historical connotation and there'd be criticism inevitably that it's too old for the IAF; renaming it to F-21 is a smart marketing move...kind of how a Nissan with luxurious features becomes an Infiniti that can be sold to an entirely different clientele, the kind who wouldn't touch a lowly Nissan with a 10 foot beanpole.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 11:34   #415
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Any thoughts on Lockheed Martin selling us the idea of an "all new" F-21? I read a Popular Mechanics article yesterday on how it will only really be a F-16 by another name and with advanced features. The name "F-16" comes loaded with a historical connotation and there'd be criticism inevitably that it's too old for the IAF; renaming it to F-21 is a smart marketing move...kind of how a Nissan with luxurious features becomes an Infiniti that can be sold to an entirely different clientele, the kind who wouldn't touch a lowly Nissan with a 10 foot beanpole.
The F-21 was the designation given to IAI Kfirs that were leased to the US Navy's Fighter Weapons School(Top Gun) and were operated as aggressor aircraft alongside A-4s and F-5s against USN and USMC jets.

To re-box the legendary F-16 as the F-21 is just plain stupid!!! They should have stuck to the original F-16 Block 70 designation.

It, anyway, doesn't stand a chance against its competitiors in the re-packaged MMRCA 2.0 competition, which is a huge waste of time and resources, considering most of these jets were evaluated the IAF earlier .
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Old 22nd February 2019, 11:42   #416
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

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Originally Posted by skanchan95 View Post
The F-21 was the designation given to IAI Kfirs that were leased to the US Navy's Fighter Weapons School(Top Gun) and were operated as aggressor aircraft alongside A-4s and F-5s against USN and USMC jets.
To harken back to the older days, to an older designation - all in order to appear modern as against the F-16 name. That's convoluted!

Quote:
To re-box the legendary F-16 as the F-21 is just plain stupid!!! They should have stuck to the original F-16 Block 70 designation.
Actually, it appears that the F-21 offered to India would have a few step-ups compared to the block 70 -

Quote:
The “F-21” also has some tricks the Block 70 doesn’t have. Lockheed's promotional video shows the fighter with a remarkable ten missiles—eight medium range, radar-guided AMRAAM missiles plus two AIM-9X Sidewinder missiles. The F-21 can be seen carrying a Sniper electro-optical targeting pod, also produced by Lockheed Martin. In service with the U.S. Air Force, the Sniper pod provides HD forward-looking infrared (also known as thermal imaging), a dual mode laser, video data link, and digital data recorder. The F-21 also features an aerial refueling probe for refueling using the drogue system and a huge flat panel cockpit display.
Source: https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...d-fighter-jet/
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Old 22nd February 2019, 12:55   #417
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Originally Posted by locusjag View Post
To harken back to the older days, to an older designation - all in order to appear modern as against the F-16 name. That's convoluted!



Actually, it appears that the F-21 offered to India would have a few step-ups compared to the block 70 -


Source: https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...d-fighter-jet/

Eventhough it has all the upgrades, It still is an F-16 underneath and will always look like one :-). The JASDF F-16 derivative (F-2A/B) deserved a seperate designation because it looks very different compared to a standard F-16.

As you rightly said, this looks more like a marketing gimmick to make us belive that it is a new aircraft. Unlike other companies, They don't even have a flying prototype of the F-21.
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Old 26th February 2019, 20:21   #418
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

Could somebody please explain the difference between the Netra built on the Embraer platform and the AWACs built on the Ilyushin platform? Do they perform the same activity?


Picture source: Internet.
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Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force-63147_1253127985.jpg  

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Old 27th February 2019, 16:10   #419
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

Does anyone know as to why in a critical engagement like chasing away invading enemy jets, the IAF uses the clearly dated Bisons vis a vis a more current jet in their arsenal like the Sukhoi?

Knowing fully well about the developing situation wouldn't the nations best weaponry be readied to be used in action? I apologies if the question is stupid, but my knowledge on the matter is very limited.
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Old 27th February 2019, 17:44   #420
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

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Does anyone know as to why in a critical engagement like chasing away invading enemy jets, the IAF uses the clearly dated Bisons vis a vis a more current jet in their arsenal like the Sukhoi?

Knowing fully well about the developing situation wouldn't the nations best weaponry be readied to be used in action? I apologies if the question is stupid, but my knowledge on the matter is very limited.
As per the information I got the Bisons were on Combat Air Patrol at that moment:

Combat air patrol (CAP) is a type of flying mission for fighter aircraft. A combat air patrol is an aircraft patrol provided over an objective area, over the force protected, over the critical area of a combat zone, or over an air defense area, for the purpose of intercepting and destroying hostile aircraft before they reach their target. Combat air patrols apply to both overland and overwater operations, protecting other aircraft, fixed and mobile sites on land, or ships at sea.

This is duty is rotated among various fighters like Su-30s, Mig-29s and Mig-21s since aircraft cannot be in the air 24x7.
Given that the IAF has a high number if Mig-21s still in service, its a highly likely they are on the 1st line of defence. Also perhaps the Pakistanis were aware when old Bisons were on shift and decided to attack at that time.
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