[Gansan]

^^ I guess both of you are somewhere near the AFS Tambaram! I live at Chromepet, can see them too but they turn back while some distance from my place. I can see their lights at night if I happen to be on the terrace.

Many years ago when I was a student, I used to study on the terrace in the mornings and evenings, enjoying the breeze. Those days I used to observe some trainers with propeller, very high overhead. They used to make a somersault and practice the engine relight procedure. When at the apex the engine will cut off, then as the plane was in the dive they will restart the engine. Sometimes it will miss a couple of times and then catch, we could hear the sound very very clearly! Very less traffic noise those days! I would spend hours just looking at those silver birds! Those days our housemaid's husband was engaged as a casual labour in the AFS, filling fuel to the planes! He used to regale us with many tales.

Nowadays I don't see the propeller planes anymore. May be they take some other direction now.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by AlphaKilo

Did you then ever considered applying for the Airforce?

I have largely lead a misspent life so far. If I had stayed focused, I could've gone down that route...

Be happy that we don't have any supersonic trainers/squadron near our houses. I lived for 3 years near the sulur base and experienced the tejas sorties. A treat for the eyes and torture to the ears when they go supersonic.

Back to kirans, I belong to a locality in chennai where I can see them performing their aerobatics/tactical maneuver practices. I love it even now after so many years of having seen them overhead, can't stop looking at them, flying so low and performing those daredevil sorties. Brings back lots of memories and lots of unfinished dreams.

P.S @locusjag: We both are neighbours! Small world!

I was wondering how is it that I never see them doing somersaults! but then again, being too close to the airstrip means I only get to hear/see them taking off and landing.

PS: Do check out the PM I sent you! I'm curious as to where exactly you live.

Originally Posted by Gansan

^^ I guess both of you are somewhere near the AFS Tambaram! I live at Chromepet, can see them too but they turn back while some distance from my place. I can see their lights at night if I happen to be on the terrace.

Yes indeed. Near AFS Tambaram. Let me ask you though; what's the most uncommon sight you've seen from the AFS? For me, it'd have to be the time in 2012 when 2 attack helicopters (shaped like an Apache or a Kamov alligator) took off from there and eventually hovered over the ECR coastline (where i was lounging in a theme park's swimming pool directly beneath them). Although here I'm safely assuming that they took from the AFS.

Those days I used to observe some trainers with propeller, very high overhead. They used to make a somersault and practice the engine relight procedure....Nowadays I don't see the propeller planes anymore. May be they take some other direction now.

They very much have those propeller trainers still. Their flights are fewer though for sure.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by DrPriyankT

Thanks. I have read a lot about the Su-30MKI's abilities and seen plenty of videos of them at airshows, where their aerobatic ability is on full display. Never knew they are called Rambhas though.

But i do agree, that in WVR combat, the PAF would have been toast due to the agility of the Rambhas and their beautiful high off boresight R-73 missiles.

My take is that PAF may not use their F16s in direct offensive engagement against a Su30 or , say a Rafale. They will expend their JF17s or F-7s.

[DrPriyankT]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

My take is that PAF may not use their F16s in direct offensive engagement against a Su30 or , say a Rafale. They will expend their JF17s or F-7s.

You may be right on this. PAF being PAF has given their Vipers mythical status and their pilots are given the status of a demigod. They surely don't want to have a bloody nose with our top fighter.
And i may even go further to say, they won't even risk them against our Mig 29's.

[fhdowntheline]

I understand that the Mig29 has lesser combat radius than an F16, the F16 has slightly better turn rate at medium speeds, better long range radar . Mig 29 has helmet mounted targeting system and better low speed manoeuverability and higher top speed . Overall, my guess is the Mig 29 is not significantly superior plane . But the PAF has a strategic issue in spreading its F16 fleet across the combat theatre. In addition, we don’t know in how many other ways the US has limited the operational capability of the PAF F16.

[PGA]

Pardon me for digressing from the subject of the thread. But I feel the issue has huge ramifications for the military aviation as we see it today.

Two seemingly disconnected events in last 20 days indicate that future is hurtling at us much faster than anticipated. It's the drone attack on Aramco refinery in Saudi Arabia and it's impact. And huge cache of arms smuggled into Punjab using drones. Five Ak's, pistols, rounds and fake currency is a huge payload for commercial drones.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/stor...013-2019-09-22

Entry of aviation in sub conventional conflict is historical. It portends much greater firepower to non state actors. While conventional threat still stays in our context, fighting capability paradigm is fast changing.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/27/asia/...hnk/index.html

Uncanny but list above doesn't mention a sixth gen fighter.

[locusjag]

I came across this mammoth aircraft formation from an IAF coffee table book, circa 1987-88, on Livefist:



Source: https://www.livefistdefence.com/2018...showed-up.html

[Alfresco]

An article by former Chief of Air Staff S. Krishnaswamy.

As he aptly says
"It is time we get over our hang-ups and get more professional in what we do. The noise of politicising over every military acquisition is now deafening."

https://indianexpress.com/article/op...-6066380/lite/

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by DrPriyankT

What are Rambhas? Is it a squadron nickname or the nickname of an aircraft?

Unofficial nick name of IAF's Su 30s!

[SmartCat]

IAF fleet plan:



Source:
https://www.business-standard.com/ar...0401549_1.html

[Gansan]

What is this blowing hot and cold about indigenous fighters by outgoing and incoming COAS? Are they going to buy the 114 new fighters or not? If they are going to buy, what is the most likely candidate? The new COAS seems to have ruled out any more Rafales.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Gansan

What is this blowing hot and cold about indigenous fighters by outgoing and incoming COAS? Are they going to buy the 114 new fighters or not? If they are going to buy, what is the most likely candidate? The new COAS seems to have ruled out any more Rafales.

He ruled out buying 36 more Rafales directly in a Govt to Govt deal. Rafale can compete in the upcoming MMRCA sequel. The "single engine" requirement has been removed, so it is no longer F-21 Vs Gripen.

[sai_ace]

Originally Posted by Gansan

^^ I guess both of you are somewhere near the AFS Tambaram! I live at Chromepet, can see them too but they turn back while some distance from my place. I can see their lights at night if I happen to be on the terrace.

Many years ago when I was a student, I used to study on the terrace in the mornings and evenings, enjoying the breeze. Those days I used to observe some trainers with propeller, very high overhead. They used to make a somersault and practice the engine relight procedure. When at the apex the engine will cut off, then as the plane was in the dive they will restart the engine. Sometimes it will miss a couple of times and then catch, we could hear the sound very very clearly! Very less traffic noise those days! I would spend hours just looking at those silver birds! Those days our housemaid's husband was engaged as a casual labour in the AFS, filling fuel to the planes! He used to regale us with many tales.

Nowadays I don't see the propeller planes anymore. May be they take some other direction now.

As a student of Madras Christian College, I stayed close to the tambaram base, in a room on the terrace. So close to the base that, in the night training sorties, I actually had my terrace awash with the light and then the plane flying over. beautiful memories.

Later had a chance to visit the base thanks to a batch mate whose father was the chief of the base. It was indeed a fabulous experience to see the Kirans up close, including facing the runway just the plane took off.

[ads11]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

He ruled out buying 36 more Rafales directly in a Govt to Govt deal. Rafale can compete in the upcoming MMRCA sequel. The "single engine" requirement has been removed, so it is no longer F-21 Vs Gripen.

I think the frustration that @Gansan was expressing was that what you've said above is deja vu. We are Literally retracing the same steps we went through the first time round. Honestly it's maddening.. Every time this infernal deal comes up it makes my blood pressure go high. if the damn plane was good enough the first time around, made it through all the hoops we asked it to jump through, why go through this tamasha of rerunning this circus act?
Honestly I can't help but correlate our procurement bureaucrats with my practised disdain for HR dept's. Much the same way I feel HR dept's redo paperwork every few years just for the sake of making themselves busy, I feel this is exactly the point behind MMRCA 2 for our esteemed babu's in Delhi..

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by ads11

if the damn plane was good enough the first time around, made it through all the hoops we asked it to jump through, why go through this tamasha of rerunning this circus act?

OK, but in the past 10 years, almost all the contenders have been upgraded. Last time, only Rafale & Eurofighter were equipped with AESA radar but now all contenders have it. Last time, Mig 35 was just a prototype but now has been fully developed - better engines, more payload, better combat range etc compared to Mig 29).