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Old 17th February 2020, 17:47   #856
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

I'm sorry but to totally discount availability stats is to lose one of the few sticks with which to beat vendors when their products under deliver. I think it's burying your head in the sand if you disregard all this data. While an anecdotal chart might not reveal much in terms of its provenance, I can give you an example of how the USAF for example routinely publishes availability records (which they are Congressionally bound to do) - in order to chastise OEMs. Take the F-35. Earlier blocks of it were excoriated within Congress as Lockheed Martin failed to live up to the promised availability - it's only now that we're seeing current blocks of that particular jet reach the sort of service parameters that were promised.

All that being said, what I will agree is that I find myself puzzled that the French jets were listed as low availability. The Rafale maybe - it's not exactly set sales charts alight, considering only the Qatari's and the IAF are counted amongst foreign vendors but the Mirage I find surprising for sure. So too for the C-130 though I can't decipher from the chart what variant it is. If it's an older example from their original purchase then it would've been 1970s vintage and perhaps age could explain the low availability.

And to come back to V Narayan's post - there's a reason the Russians designed their kit to be able to be treated like a forgotten stepchild between overhauls. Considering most of the Soviet armed forces were made of drafted conscripts who most likely weren't the sharpest tools in the shed, and more importantly probably didn't want to be in some icy wasteland guarding Ivan's shiny weapons, it's hardly surprising then that the weapons systems wouldn't get the loving treatment. So I suppose the engineers made best of a lousy situation and built the things of hardy stock.

I will say this though, over 15 years of getting sand blasted in the Middle East brought about a lot of soul searching in the Pentagon in terms of durability and such like and you're starting to see some of the hardier products enter their inventory, just as the wings on heavily used items like the A-10 are about to fall off from overuse.
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Old 20th February 2020, 00:01   #857
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

A new video seems to suggest that CDS has cancelled the MMRCA tender and would instead go for staggered purchase of more Rafales. Good decision but i am not finding any such news in any of the mainstream media.


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Old 20th February 2020, 17:26   #858
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

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Originally Posted by naveenvenkatesh View Post
A new video seems to suggest that CDS has cancelled the MMRCA tender and would instead go for staggered purchase of more Rafales. Good decision but i am not finding any such news in any of the mainstream media.
First I'd have heard of this too but if it Is the case I have to agree it's far more prudent. None of the ordeal and delay of a fresh tender and all the nonsense that comes with it. Just getting on with the deal that was made the first time around.

Wonder if this might mean there'd be news on the navy requirement too from the CDS given he's recently sidetracked the 3rd aircraft carrier for more subs (again, entirely rational decision), and the imminent announcement going to be made for Naval helicopters during Trumps visit.
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Old 21st February 2020, 11:51   #859
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First I'd have heard of this too but if it Is the case I have to agree it's far more prudent. None of the ordeal and delay of a fresh tender and all the nonsense that comes with it. Just getting on with the deal that was made the first time around.

Wonder if this might mean there'd be news on the navy requirement too from the CDS given he's recently sidetracked the 3rd aircraft carrier for more subs (again, entirely rational decision), and the imminent announcement going to be made for Naval helicopters during Trumps visit.
This is actually a very prudent thing to do. We already have paid for the india specific upgrades and have paid for the base upgrades for receiving the rafales. Also the more rafales we get, the better will be our economies of scale. If the Indian navy chooses the rafale-m in their 57 aircraft order and if the airforce incrementally gets a fleet of 36+114 rafales, we can create a domestic parts base, a common repair depot and most importantly common training which will bring in massive economies of scale.

On a personal note, I still can't trust the Americans to buy crucial fighters due to various restrictions they may impose. The French have stood by us and will stand by us, whilst providing us freedom to tinker with the planes by adding support for Israeli and Indian weapons, something the Americans might not like.
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Old 21st February 2020, 16:39   #860
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

When you put it like that, it almost becomes too sensible. I feel like the Indian Babu's instinct for self sabotage will kick in, in the face of such obscene sensible thinking.

Honestly we have a chance to really go all in on a platform that the French have really not had any luck with elsewhere. They'll probably be ecstatic if we doubled down in the manner you described. Maybe not enough to get more than a few license built ones in India but if we can at the very least get the French to set up some JV supply chain in India so that we can at least service them domestically we'll have got the best possible deal I think. Like you said, economies of scale. But again I've been too burnt by promising Indian decisions getting torpedoed in favour of the most tangential solution. Fingers crossed though. If having a CDS means we finally at least have one unitary voice focusing some of the group think when it comes to procurement, that's a huge win I'd say given our patchy record.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 17:46   #861
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

Anybody heard of this? Do we have a fix on this?

US Army stops accepting AH-64E helos from Boeing due to safety concerns

https://www.defensenews.com/land/201...cal-to-safety/


Quote:
WASHINGTON — The U.S. Army has stopped taking deliveries of AH-64E Apache attack helicopters from Boeing because the service is not confident in the durability of what it deems a “critical safety” item, Defense News has learned.
“We stopped accepting deliveries of new AH-64 Echoes because of a strap pack nut that we believe to be really suspect,” Brig. Gen. Thomas Todd, program executive officer for Army aviation, confirmed to Defense News on April 19.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 18:52   #862
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Originally Posted by AlphaKilo View Post
Anybody heard of this? Do we have a fix on this?

US Army stops accepting AH-64E helos from Boeing due to safety concerns

https://www.defensenews.com/land/201...cal-to-safety/
Thanks for sharing this. It seems the news is correct. I would add that as is characteristic today this is a click bait title. Just my two bits....As an aircraft matures and ages in service hundreds of improvements, safety upgrades, cautionary upgrades, correctives are implemented through what are called service bulletins. OEMs issue them all the time - some are optional some are compulsory. They often arise out of experience with some part in some weather or flying conditions over a period of time or God forbid through an accident. The OEM studies it, issues a corrective to all users/MROs and which of course then goes into the new machines still on the production line. Unfortunately the title makes it sound like a fundamental design defect which it is not. The corrosion could have arisen due to flying conditions, over use in Iraq (?), incorrect or incomplete maintenance procedures by the US Army, or weak design etc. the AH-64E as we know brought in additional power and a revised transmission this may have resulted in this structural decline.

Last edited by V.Narayan : 23rd February 2020 at 18:57.
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Old 27th February 2020, 16:55   #863
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

https://theprint.in/defence/not-much...kistan/371821/

Another crappy misleading click bait title from 'The Print'. I notice their contents often lack meat or facts or a proper cogent line of debate and yet their titles and approach is often anti-Indian Armed Forces in tone. I wonder why. I can understand constructive criticism as often is expressed on this forum but to forever be belittling seems odd. I wonder who bankrolls this online magazine
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Old 27th February 2020, 17:41   #864
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
Oh dear God! Please give these Journos some sense.

I agree that we are still behind in terms of AMRAAM matching missile but with induction of AKAASH and ASTRA BVR, our capabilities have significantly improved than before.

1. Turning hot or cold is never an instruction given by the fighter controller. (experts please correct me!) It is solely decided by the pilot and the minimum abort range available based on the missiles the adversary is carrying.

2. In case of AMRAAMs, 10 - 12 nm (nautical miles) would be a safe abort range and for the R-77 it could be around 8 - 10 nm.

3. It was clearly mentioned during several press meets that Wg. Cdr. Abhi pushed ahead into the fight in spite of warning from the fighter controllers. All the action was over in a max. 30 minute period.

4. Why is there no talk of the downed "superiorly" armed F-16 by a puny MiG-21?

5. There is a talk going around that the glide bombs were not dropped to cause any damage but to lose weight and do a quick getaway from the fast intercepting Bisons. The Bisons were armed with R-73 and R-77 (i am not sure about this though). The PAF were taken by surprise when the Bisons popped up all of a sudden.

5. I doubt that the MiG-29s were replaced with SU-30's. They both are equally big birds. If at all, the Sukhois might have been stationed there in addition to the MiG-29s.

The questions I would rather ask are:

1. Why weren't the MiG-29s scrambled? or why did they not see action? Or as a matter of fact, why wasn't even more Bisons scrambled? Did the Airforce top brass and commanders in the field knew something more than what we "arm Chair" fighter pilots and the journalists knew/know?

2. Did our Top brass not foresee a quick hit and run by PAF the very next day? if they did know, why was there not more CAP birds in air?

3. What is stopping us from equipping the birds with R-77M or R-27s with extended range?

4. Was our Forces planning something bigger? They wanted to lure the PAF into the indian airspace and take them out or escalate the conflict?
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Old 27th February 2020, 22:52   #865
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

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Originally Posted by AlphaKilo View Post
Oh dear God! Please give these Journos some sense.
Yup. My question on who is bank rolling them was not facetious. 'The Print'follows a steady anti-Armed forces line, as opposed to constructive criticism.
Quote:
The questions I would rather ask are:

1. Why weren't the MiG-29s scrambled? or why did they not see action? Or as a matter of fact, why wasn't even more Bisons scrambled? Did the Airforce top brass and commanders in the field knew something more than what we "arm Chair" fighter pilots and the journalists knew/know?
We dont know why. They might know something we dont or it may be laxity.
Quote:
2. Did our Top brass not foresee a quick hit and run by PAF the very next day? if they did know, why was there not more CAP birds in air?
Agree. It should have been anticipated.
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4. Was our Forces planning something bigger? They wanted to lure the PAF into the Indian airspace and take them out or escalate the conflict?
Good question
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Old 27th February 2020, 23:05   #866
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

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Originally Posted by AlphaKilo View Post

5. I doubt that the MiG-29s were replaced with SU-30's. They both are equally big birds. If at all, the Sukhois might have been stationed there in addition to the MiG-29s.
Mig 29 is a medium weight air to air platform and can be used as an escort for a strike package or an interceptor. however, being twin engine, the spool time is longer than a single engine interceptor like the Bison and now the Tejas. Hence you will typically have a single engine bird act as an interceptor for any strike package of the enemy that has crossed over. Plus the legacy Fulcrums are short legged, although the UPG ones of the IAF and the KUB of the IN have the hump for additional fuel that gives them better range. The SU 30 on the other hand is a multi role heavy air dominance fighter with both air to air and air to ground capabilities and (as Feb 27 demonstrated with the jamming of the AMRAAMs), very good EW capability. so both the Mig 29 and the SU30 are chalk and cheese

The questions I would rather ask are:

1. Why weren't the MiG-29s scrambled? or why did they not see action?Mig 29s were in the air, that's all I will say. Or as a matter of fact, why wasn't even more Bisons scrambled? Did the Airforce top brass and commanders in the field knew something more than what we "arm Chair" fighter pilots and the journalists knew/know?

2. Did our Top brass not foresee a quick hit and run by PAF the very next day? if they did know, why was there not more CAP birds in air?They did, but the RoE forbade IAF from crossing over the LOC or IB. see, IAF and PAF have an understanding that 10NM on either side of the LOC and IB is a no fly zone and consequently a no attack zone, in peacetime (i.e. non declaration of a full fledged war). PAF broke this ROE by firing their AMRAAMs across the LOC. IAF didn't expect this, but nonetheless effectively jammed the AMRAAM using the SU 30, much to the chagrin of Uncle Sam (that's a diff story altogether). This action of PAF had two cosequences-

(I) IAF realized that their R77 and R37 missiles were inadequate and a long range BVR AAM is needed ASAP. PAF f 16s fired their AAMRAMS from close to 100 NM away, which is effectively the edge of the envelope. they fired it from DMAX-1. the IAF Sukhois armed with the R37s Vympels couldn't get a firing solution on their flight control computers. This has now been rectified with the emergency induction of the R27s. More crucially, the Astra is inducted and the IAF is in love with this missile. the Astra is the real game changer now.

(II) PAF has forever changed the RoE. Now whenever the IAF radars pick up a strike package heading towards India, they will be weapons free immediately. the PAF knows this


3. What is stopping us from equipping the birds with R-77M or R-27s with extended range?Done, and more importantly, Astra is inducted

4. Was our Forces planning something bigger? They wanted to lure the PAF into the Indian airspace and take them out or escalate the conflict?Yes, if Abhinandan hadn't acted like a right dick (sorry, but hes NOT a hero, he disobeyed orders), the IAF was planning something BIG. his capture and the media pressure for his release thwarted the plans. The one hint I will leave you with. IN was very frustrated. make of this what you will
Let me share my two cents on some of the points that you have raised, without revealing information that should not be in public domain. My responses are in bold.
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Old 27th February 2020, 23:07   #867
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
Yup. My question on who is bank rolling them was not facetious. 'The Print'follows a steady anti-Armed forces line, as opposed to constructive criticism.
I don’t follow ‘print’. But if that article you shared is their usual way, then is it a departure from their old ways or was this following article an exception:
https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/thepr.../278752/%3famp
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Old 28th February 2020, 10:36   #868
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

The state of defence journalism in this country is pathetic to say the least, like all other branches of the media. Sorry to say, but they are always willing to be sold to the highest bidder. Team BHP already has threads detailing how corrupt auto journalists are to give you an example of how deep the rot is in the media as a whole.
The only defence journalists I personally respect are Shiv Aroor and Nitin Gokhale. Both these gentlemen are balanced and report to the point without giving their expert opinions and armchair advice.
Many operational details of the day we thwarted off the Pakistanis are correctly kept under wraps by our defence forces for obvious reasons but so called independent media houses we have give their expert opinions in a way which comes out to be nothing but deprecation of our forces, just for a few eyeballs.
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Old 28th February 2020, 10:38   #869
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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
I don’t follow ‘print’. But if that article you shared is their usual way, then is it a departure from their old ways or was this following article an exception:
https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/thepr.../278752/%3famp
Sir, see who the author is, he is an ex-IAF Mirage 2000 pilot. He knows what he is speaking and he knows how much to speak unlike our other so called defence journalists. His articles are really good.
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Old 28th February 2020, 15:10   #870
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Default Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

Sharing some links from last few days:

Came across this amazing video posted by IAF_MCC on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1233070949223759872

Here is an interview of Ex chief in HT in case if you guys missed it: https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...vD5qvl95L.html

Here is one more from Air Marshal C Hari Kumar: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...3.cms?from=mdr

And here is one from Air Marshal Harish Masand: http://www.indiandefencereview.com/n...after-pulwama/
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