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Old 7th January 2021, 10:35   #1306
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Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

I would think the Airbus FBW system and the structure would be modified to be more tolerant of maneuvers expected in the military flight envelope?
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Old 7th January 2021, 12:23   #1307
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Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

Quote:
Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
I would think the Airbus FBW system and the structure would be modified to be more tolerant of maneuvers expected in the military flight envelope?
I am no expert here, and depends on far you go, but modifying structural design and FBW is a MAJOR change, affecting just about everything and at least for commercial planes would require just about total re certification.

Not sure to what end these AWACS type plane require to be doing manoeuvres outside their envelope? They can be quite nimble as it

The RAF sentinel mentioned before certainly was not modified. Standard air frame and systems. Originally it even retained its commercial certification. I canít remember how the various bulbs and so on were attached. But I seem to recall it required only some simple compensation dialled into the flight system to be compliant under the then air worthiness certificate.

My brother in law was the chief engineer of this plane. Not much we could discuss for all the obvious reasons. But the airframe as such was never a big concern, nor required much work I recall.

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Old 17th January 2021, 12:56   #1308
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Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

Over the next 5 to 6 years, the IAF fighter aircraft fleet will look like this -

Dassault Rafale - 36
Sukhoi Su30 MKI - 272 (including 12 on order)
Mikoyan MiG29 - 86 (including 21 on order)
HAL Tejas - 123
Dassault Mirage 2000 - 57
Sepecat Jaguar - 118

I'm assuming that Tejas will replace all Mig 21s. It all adds up to 692 aircraft (38 squadrons).

- If murmurs are true, then IAF will order 36 more Rafales after delivery of existing lot. We will have close to 40 squadrons then.
- Either MMRCA 2.0 aircraft or Tejas Mark 2 is likely to replace Jaguars over the next decade.

Last edited by SmartCat : 17th January 2021 at 13:16.
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Old 17th January 2021, 17:04   #1309
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Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
Over the next 5 to 6 years, the IAF fighter aircraft fleet will look like this -

Dassault Rafale - 36
Sukhoi Su30 MKI - 272 (including 12 on order)
Mikoyan MiG29 - 86 (including 21 on order)
HAL Tejas - 123
Dassault Mirage 2000 - 57
Sepecat Jaguar - 118

I'm assuming that Tejas will replace all Mig 21s. It all adds up to 692 aircraft (38 squadrons).

- If murmurs are true, then IAF will order 36 more Rafales after delivery of existing lot. We will have close to 40 squadrons then.
- Either MMRCA 2.0 aircraft or Tejas Mark 2 is likely to replace Jaguars over the next decade.
A fairly formidable fleet However, going in to the 2030s we will be facing some new issues - the Mirages and the Mig-29s which have been flying since the 80s will be due for replacement which means that the AMCA or the Air Force version of the TEDBF should be ready for induction by the early 2030s to replace them (if it will is anybody's guess). Another formidable task is replacing the early Su-30s in the 2040s which is a tall order given their importance in the IAF fleet. I guess in the end of the day, aircraft acquisition is a never ending cycle of keeping with the times!
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Old 18th January 2021, 11:10   #1310
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Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
Over the next 5 to 6 years, the IAF fighter aircraft fleet will look like this -

Dassault Rafale - 36
Sukhoi Su30 MKI - 272 (including 12 on order)
Mikoyan MiG29 - 86 (including 21 on order)
HAL Tejas - 123
Dassault Mirage 2000 - 57
Sepecat Jaguar - 118

I'm assuming that Tejas will replace all Mig 21s. It all adds up to 692 aircraft (38 squadrons).

- If murmurs are true, then IAF will order 36 more Rafales after delivery of existing lot. We will have close to 40 squadrons then.
- Either MMRCA 2.0 aircraft or Tejas Mark 2 is likely to replace Jaguars over the next decade.
Where are we on the MIGs ? I think there are quite a few 21s still in service ? Anybody has any idea what's their service life left and how long more can we push them ? Are all the 23s and 27s out if service?
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Old 18th January 2021, 11:33   #1311
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Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

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Originally Posted by dragracer567 View Post
.... Another formidable task is replacing the early Su-30s in the 2040s ...
replacement plan -

mig21s replaced by mark 1As
navy mig29s replced by TEDBF
jaguars & mirage2000s replaced by mark 2s & rafales
su-30s replaced by AMCAs

https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/ind....evf8NcCnS_D0U
https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/ind...0tVDUxU0K4W3Af

Last edited by WindRide : 18th January 2021 at 11:35.
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Old 18th January 2021, 11:50   #1312
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Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

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Originally Posted by Dieseltuned View Post
Where are we on the MIGs ? I think there are quite a few 21s still in service ? Anybody has any idea what's their service life left and how long more can we push them ? Are all the 23s and 27s out if service?
HAL produced the last Mig 21 in 1985. So the newest Mig 21 in the fleet is 35 years old. Mig 23 went out of service many years ago and Mig 27s have been mothballed.
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Old 18th January 2021, 11:57   #1313
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Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

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Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
HAL produced the last Mig 21 in 1985. So the newest Mig 21 in the fleet is 35 years old. Mig 23 went out of service many years ago and Mig 27s have been mothballed.
Thank you SmartCat. So it looks like the MK1 and 1As are essentially replacing the 21s.
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Old 18th January 2021, 13:27   #1314
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Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

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Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
Mig 27s have been mothballed.
Can they be brought back to service at short notice if required?
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Old 18th January 2021, 16:57   #1315
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Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieseltuned View Post
Thank you SmartCat. So it looks like the MK1 and 1As are essentially replacing the 21s.
That's the plan anyway since the time the LCA was envisaged. As of now I believe the FOC Mk1 may not have been integrated fully with the requirements of a frontline interceptor/fighter. Something that the M21 Bison is. I am no expert but I feel to be able to fully replace the Bison in forward interceptor as 1st line of defense, Tejas Mk1A would be required in today's battlefield at least. Mk1 would be more of a stop-gap trainer for the type to keep more and more pilots ready for squadron deployments once the Mk1A starts entering service. Most of these airframes would probably get converted to Mk1A standards as time progresses (like was done for the Su30K initial fleet to SU30MKI).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Can they be brought back to service at short notice if required?
Not really. Unfortunately due to whatever the reasons (well known) IAF ends up having to keep on flying the planes well over what is ideally retirement age. By the time the IAF retires a particular plane, its airframe has reached end of life beyond any refurbishment. Spares, engines and other components are scares thanks to the OEM assembly lines in foreign lands closed decades ago and so on.

Most of the Mig27 Bahadurs infact have already been converted into static display units at large intersections / institutes etc over last 10 years. (A welcome thing rather than ending up in scrap). Next to 0 chance of any of the remaining "mothballed" ones to be in a state to be reactivated at short notice IMHO. The cost vs benefits analysis of this might not be very convincing.

Last edited by Reinhard : 18th January 2021 at 16:59.
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Old 19th January 2021, 12:32   #1316
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Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

Meanwhile the prior news about additional SU30MKI and Mig29 being acquired is making progress with steps being taken towards formal process -

Link - News article - Additional Mig29 and Su30MKI orders

This might be the fastest turn-around in recent times that I have seen, mainly towards attrition replacements in the inventory. Over last decade there have been quite a few losses to technical issues and crashes. these acquisitions would be required simply to "maintain numbers" IMO. I wonder if any such (like the Mig29 in this case) surplus Mirage2000s could be sourced from France or other users of the type. IAF would love that I guess.
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Old 19th January 2021, 15:55   #1317
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Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
Meanwhile the prior news about additional SU30MKI and Mig29 being acquired is making progress with steps being taken towards formal process -

Link - News article - Additional Mig29 and Su30MKI orders

This might be the fastest turn-around in recent times that I have seen, mainly towards attrition replacements in the inventory. Over last decade there have been quite a few losses to technical issues and crashes. these acquisitions would be required simply to "maintain numbers" IMO. I wonder if any such (like the Mig29 in this case) surplus Mirage2000s could be sourced from France or other users of the type. IAF would love that I guess.
Unfortunately, there are no Mirage2000 up for sale matching the IAF spec's in the market. The Indian Mirage is heavily modified. Even if we procure some birds second hand, substantial time and money has to be spent on upgrading/bringing them to spec with existing specs. I would rather prefer going with another batch of Rafale. The Mirage2000 train has passed and no point looking back at the missed opportunity
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Old 31st January 2021, 10:11   #1318
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Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

Looks like the LUH flying around HAL:

http://punedefencenews.com/2017/05/m...maiden-flight/
Attached Thumbnails
Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force-screenshot_20210131100955.jpg  

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Old 31st January 2021, 10:48   #1319
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Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
Mk1 would be more of a stop-gap trainer for the type to keep more and more pilots ready for squadron deployments once the Mk1A starts entering service. Most of these airframes would probably get converted to Mk1A standards as time progresses (like was done for the Su30K initial fleet to SU30MKI).
The early model Su-30k airframes were returned to Russia in exchange of Su-30MKIs and then were resold to Angola. They were not upgraded for use of the IAF. 12 are operated by the Angolan Air Force.

Name:  Screenshot 20210131 at 10.46.07 AM.png
Views: 542
Size:  425.2 KB

Source:
Russia To Deliver 12 Ex-Indian Air Force Su-30K Fighter Aircraft To Angola By Early 2018
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/20...8#.YBY5_2Qzb0o


6 remaining unsold ex-IAF Su-30k were upgraded and looking for a buyer about two years ago:
Russia Seeks Customers for 6 Upgraded, Former Indian Air Force Su-30 Fighters
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/25...s#.YBY5_2Qzb0o

Quote:
Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
Looks like the LUH flying around HAL:

http://punedefencenews.com/2017/05/m...maiden-flight/
I think HAL tests helicopters over Bangalore regularly. I caught this HAL Rudra hovering over the HAL Heritage Museum 2 years ago:

Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force-screenshot-20210131-10.31.38-am.png

Last edited by Foxbat : 31st January 2021 at 10:54.
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Old 31st January 2021, 10:57   #1320
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Re: Combat Aircraft of the Indian Air Force

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat View Post
The early model Su-30k airframes were returned to Russia in exchange of Su-30MKIs and then were resold to Angola. They were not upgraded for use of the IAF. 12 are operated by the Angolan Air Force.
Ah I see! didn't know this. For some reason I thought I had read that those got converted. Evidently they were "exchanged" instead. Logical and cheaper to do for both parties perhaps considering the differences involved. Thanks for this information.
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