[mpksuhas]

Something which we were discussing last week.

I don't have high regards for this particular site due to its copy paste jobs. However, this article for a change is sensible -

Link

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by mpksuhas

I don't have high regards for this particular site due to its copy paste jobs. However, this article for a change is sensible -

IDRW.org eh? Never heard about it, but content seems to be good.

Last paragraph makes sense. More Rafales + AMCA makes more sense. Otherwise, IAF will end up with 6 or 7 separate fighter platforms. I hope they don't buy F16s or Gripens either.

[dyer_made]

I haven't posted in this board fr a long time. But well, this thread is a serious discussion and a bigger eye opener.
The thing I am trying to get to is that nowadays all news media, and I do mean all, is trying to sensationalise issues, present most things in a negative light to build more news. But this whole thread does bring to light that we are not fools. India is no fool.
All the decisions taken have logic behind them.
Anyway that was my tuppence. Thanks for the positive feeling. At least something's being done right.

[SmartCat]

Some clarity on Sukhoi FGFA issue:

After Sukhoi 'mistake', India to go for Russian 5th-generation fighter only on full-tech transfer pact
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/57546519.cms

"Though bulk of the 272 Sukhois (240 inducted till now) contracted from Russia have been made by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL), they have been basically assembled here with imported knocked-down kits. HAL still cannot manufacture the Sukhois on its own," said a source. A HAL-made Sukhoi (around Rs 450 crore) also costs Rs 100 crore more than the price of the same jet imported from Russia.

India has now laid down two essential prerequisites for the FGFA project, apart from examining its entire cost-effectiveness. One, there should be extensive technology transfer, including the "source codes", to ensure India can in the future upgrade the fighter with integration of new weapons on its own

[directinjection]

India has now laid down two essential prerequisites for the FGFA project, apart from examining its entire cost-effectiveness. One, there should be extensive technology transfer, including the "source codes", to ensure India can in the future upgrade the fighter with integration of new weapons on its own

Who is India to impose preconditions on the Russians? It's their technology - they are the ones who will dictate terms, not us. If India is not interested, they will be happy to share the technology with China which has three times the defence budget of India.

Neither Russia nor anyone else will give India closely guarded technology. India has to develop its own. The sooner we realize this, the better off we will be in the long run. AMCA must be pursued with seriousness and vigour.

[vamsi.kona]

Originally Posted by directinjection

Who is India to impose preconditions on the Russians? It's their technology - they are the ones who will dictate terms, not us. If India is not interested, they will be happy to share the technology with China which has three times the defence budget of India.

Neither Russia nor anyone else will give India closely guarded technology. India has to develop its own. The sooner we realize this, the better off we will be in the long run. AMCA must be pursued with seriousness and vigour.

I believe Russia is facing funds crunch and as such was looking for partners to fund. India was, if I am right the only willing partner, given the amount involved. The Chinese may not need transfer of technology as they have successfully reverse engineered many products. They are only lagging in engine department and as such there are reports that they are looking at acquiring new engines developed for FGFA. So both India and Russia need each other, especially when western sanctions and lower oil prices are restricting their ability to raise funds. I don't think China would be a major importer of fighter jets in the near future and as such Russia needs India, which is amongst the top importers of defence related things.

[SmartCat]

Upgraded F15 Eagle. 2040c means the aircraft will be operationally relevant till year 2040. First flight in 1972, will fly till 2040 - that is 70 years.

Ability to carry 16 air to air missiles. Turn up the volume on your speakers -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGY2JBuSCU0

I wonder if it will be available in that glossy black paint job

[Crankpin]

Originally Posted by directinjection

Who is India to impose preconditions on the Russians? It's their technology - they are the ones who will dictate terms, not us. If India is not interested, they will be happy to share the technology with China which has three times the defence budget of India.

Neither Russia nor anyone else will give India closely guarded technology. India has to develop its own. The sooner we realize this, the better off we will be in the long run. AMCA must be pursued with seriousness and vigour.

What you say is correct that it's their technology but China doesn't need a stealth aircraft...it already has 2 of its own the Chengdu J-20 and more recently the Shenyang J-31.
So, Russia will have to co-develop it with someone to offset the development costs...! But since its almost ready I don't see any point in us just buying it off the shelf if it doesn't help our R&D.
It will be smarter for India to work with them on a completely new aircraft all together with 5th or 5th+ Gen avionics and super-stealth features instead of the PAK-FA.

[SmartCat]

Very interesting. IAF plans to acquire 10 or 12 "pre-owned" () Mig 29s from Malaysian Air Force

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/58031600.cms

[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by smartcat

Very interesting. IAF plans to acquire 10 or 12 "pre-owned" () Mig 29s from Malaysian Air Force

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/58031600.cms

If they can be bought for cheap, all well & good. Other than an IFR probe, externally they are same as the IAF's MiG-29Bs.

The MiG-29Ns can be absorbed into existing Fulcrum squadrons (28, 47 & 223) after upgrading them to IAF's 29UPG standards.

Those RMAF MiG-29Ns came with factory fitted IFR probes and as per my copy of MiG-29 Warbird Tech Series, were rumoured to have higher payload carrying capability, more capable radar & avionics when compared to Legacy export Fulcrums.

[himanshugoswami]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

If they can be bought for cheap, all well & good. Other than an IFR probe, externally they are same as the IAF's MiG-29Bs.

The MiG-29Ns can be absorbed into existing Fulcrum squadrons (28, 47 & 223) after upgrading them to IAF's 29UPG standards.

Those RMAF MiG-29Ns came with factory fitted IFR probes and as per my copy of MiG-29 Warbird Tech Series, were rumoured to have higher payload carrying capability, more capable radar & avionics when compared to Legacy export Fulcrums.
Attachment 1627018

whats very interesting in that pic is the lack of smoke from the engines. the Klimov RD33 is notorious for its smokiness, but both these birds seem to be smokeless. So perhaps there is some modification done to the engine too?

[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

whats very interesting in that pic is the lack of smoke from the engines. the Klimov RD33 is notorious for its smokiness, but both these birds seem to be smokeless. So perhaps there is some modification done to the engine too?

Could be....but highly unlikely considering they were manufactured probably in the late 80s or early 90s. The photos below show Smoky MiG-29N/NUBs from RMAF acrobatic team - drawn from No. 17 Sqdn "Bats" and aptly named "Smokey Bandits".



Even the RD-33MKs on Navy's MiG-29K/KUBs "smoke" but not as much as the IAF's MiG-29s.

[Redline6800]

Interesting prospect for sure, Malaysia's MiG's haven't flown much at all, they fly only about 100 hours a year.
That's less than 10 hours a month!!
This is not surprising as the Russian's take over a year to deliver an engine after overhaul, impacting on-tarmac availability.
Malaysia's budget crunch doesn't make matters better!
Interesting thing is that their MiG-29 and Su-30MKM technicians have been trained in India at HAL Nasik. They have a very high opinion of Indian capabilities in this area

The 'Smokey Bandits' havent been at LIMA for some time - I love the MiG-29 - but they havent flown during my last 2 visits to LIMA

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Redline6800

Interesting prospect for sure, Malaysia's MiG's haven't flown much at all, they fly only about 100 hours a year.

Any idea when the Malaysians acquired these birds? From what I've read, a fighter aircraft has an airframe life of only 6000 to 8000 hours.

@ V.Narayan

When an airframe gets old, does the whole aircraft need to be junked?

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by smartcat

Very interesting. IAF plans to acquire 10 or 12 "pre-owned" () Mig 29s from Malaysian Air Force

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/58031600.cms

I was wondering what really is the benefit of buying these used 90s tech fighters.

Why waste time, effort and negotiation time for just a handful of old jets.