[blackwasp]

I think this is purely the respective states fault. If the operators have the requisite permit (all India permits with tax paid in respective states), there shouldn't be any problem. Problem comes up with other operators pay 12.5-14.5% VAT on the vehicle where as the other state has VAT around 4%. This 8% saving it more than the cost of tax of the other state. Also, NL is preferred for many long vehicles as it's not mandatory to present a vehicle for inspection to the RTO if its more than a certain length. Also with lower registration costs, it makes sense to register there. Other states are crying foul over this. Instead of creating a level field, they are being told to shut down operations.

What about the case of Isuzu then ? They are exempted from paying road tax in AP. Won't other manufacturers cry foul over this as well?

[deehunk]

Originally Posted by silversteed

Quora as such is so full of keyboard warriors and internet researchers that it's quite easy to get carried away. The Indian Express article says nothing about the "fraud" because the operators get their vehicles registered in a state whose RTA allows registering such a coach.

Thanks Rahul for sharing the information you had on this open forum. If misuse of loopholes in the law and using unsafe vehicles does not mean fraud, I am clueless. The bus operators are playing with the lives of innocent travelers and why wait till accidents happen and people lose their lives.

[silversteed]

Originally Posted by deehunk

If misuse of loopholes in the law and using unsafe vehicles does not mean fraud, I am clueless.

Going slightly OT here. If a business owner can show a car bought in the firm's name as a depreciation and save on tax, then that can also be construed as fraud

Originally Posted by deehunk

The bus operators are playing with the lives of innocent travelers and why wait till accidents happen and people lose their lives.

Bus operators are playing with the lives of people, agreed. But taxation and safety do not have a direct relation. If there were, then vehicles that fare poorly in crash tests and safety inspections should be taxed more, just like insurance premium in the west.

Instead of cribbing about different taxes and different rules for registration, let the authorities come up with bus body codes and the like to improve safety. The much hyped AIS-063 school bus body code has glaring omissions, one such being proximity mirrors. Recently, a small kid was run over by the school bus because the driver couldn't spot the kid due to the blind spots - had there been a proximity mirror and more stringent regulations on the type of body etc, this accident might not have occurred.

[binaiks]

Originally Posted by srishiva

Out of curiosity, can you please let us know ? There should be some reason to register in AR.

There are a plethora of reasons. To summarise:

Primarily, Ease of getting All India Permits. Although the permit is called an "All India Permit", it doesn't let the bus operate throughout the country. (AIPs given for trucks are different - they do get some tax concessions, and their permits are covered by reciprocated interstate agreements between states). Majority of the operators prefer taking an "All India Permit" if their buses are operated on an interstate route, while operators operating on intra-state routes prefer a contract carriage permit (due to heavy differences in taxation rates). However a bus with a contract carriage permit needs a special permit to cross over to another state - that process is simple in certain states, and terribly complicated in some others. Like for example, a KL registered contract carriage bus can enter tamilnadu by paying a small permit fee, and no tax - that due to an agreement between TN and KL. However, to enter KA, the bus needs to pay a huge sum in tax (it was somewhere around 34K for a single entry permit, for a 49 seater bus built on a 210' chassis).

A lot of states do not issue AIPs for various reasons for certain classes of vehicles, or have placed heavy restrictions on the vehicles - like overall length and stuff like that. TN, for example, does not permit TN registered AIPs to operate regular trips inside the state. So, operators end up having to go to states like NL or AR to get AIPs. The vehicles are perfectly legal, built to dimensions and meets the requirements of the state where they would finally operate. Karnataka, for example, issues only Contract Carriage permits for Sleeper buses - which is detrimental if you plan to operate interstate. So, operators head out to Pondicherry, which issues AIPs for sleeper buses - but the state mandates the bus should be presented for fitness test every year, and the taxes are higher compared to the northeastern state. Remember the "mother tax" is in addition to what they pay the states they operate in.

Certain states like TN or KL do not issue any kind of permits for Sleeper buses - neither Contract Carriage nor AIP. So, operators are forced to "buy" permits from states like AR.

Karnataka operators avoid PY for another reason - being the greed of the Karnataka RTO. Karnataka forces operators with buses registered out of KA to pay annual tax on their vehicles - tax for a 30 berth sleeper bus works out to about 6.5~7 Lakhs per bus - it isn't a small amount to shell out in one go. This doesn't apply to vehicles registered in the NE states though (no one knows what is the logic though). This annual tax policy was in the court recently, when Kerala decided to impose the same on KA registered buses as a tit-for-tat move.

The thing to be noted is that the operator doesn't save "tax" by registering in AR or NL, or any UT for that matter. They actually end up paying more tax.

There is, reportedly, a gazette notification that permits the landlocked NE states to issue registration without physically verifying the vehicles - I am not sure of the veracity of this information.

[Dry Ice]

I also see an awfully large number of NL registered bigger trucks these days.

Primary benefit has to be substantially lower cost of registration. As commercial vehicles (All India Permit) usually pay yearly taxes to the home state + monthly taxes to the states they ply in, their yearly tax outgo would be the same irrespective of where they register it. So it only makes sense if they get a good discount on upfront registration.

Some other benefits could be (I am guessing here, not entirely sure)
- No need to present the vehicle physically at the RTO to register
- Flexibility with the internal seat configs? Maybe the southern states do not allow certain body types and seat configurations etc (sleeper vs seating).
- No challans based on photos - the vehicle database not being centralized yet. Only if the bus gets stopped, it can face problems. (yes, agree, it's a wild one)

The primary question still remains - if the vehicle gets registered this way and does not violate its All India Permit terms, pays monthly/weekly/daily taxes where it is being used, what is the govt's problem?

[srishiva]

Thanks for the answers. I dont even understand how authorities have so much time to make so many complicated rules. Most of the rules exist and are known to people entering these businesses. These are not ad-hoc rules. So we cannot blame the authorities later.

[deehunk]

Mr. Binaik, my views about your statements

The vehicles are perfectly legal, built to dimensions and meets the requirements of the state where they would finally operate.

Are you a certified person to make this claim? It can be your individual opinion.

Certain states like TN or KL do not issue any kind of permits for Sleeper buses - neither Contract Carriage nor AIP. So, operators are forced to "buy" permits from states like AR.

There is no obligation to buy permits from NE states to run a bus service without hidden benefits.

Karnataka operators avoid PY for another reason - being the greed of Karnataka RTO. Karnataka forces operators with buses registered out of KA to pay annual tax on their vehicles - for a 30 berth sleeper bus it works out to about 6.5~7 Lakhs per bus - it isn't a small amount to shell out in one go.

Again, there is no obligation here to run a bus service and you are criticising a constitutional body at personal level because the rules do not favour the business.

[SchumiFan]

Small update, bus is running tonight. Hope we reach Bangalore like every other day.

Will have to shoot a mail to the management on this issue.

[binaiks]

Originally Posted by deehunk

Mr. Binaik, my views about your statements
[*]The vehicles are perfectly legal, built to dimensions and meets the requirements of the state where they would finally operate.
- Are you a certified person to make this claim? It can be your individual opinion.

There are Volvo and Scania coaches that do these. I may not be a certified person to make this claim, but ARAI - which is a certified body to certify this - issues certificates confirming the dimensions and requirements of the Republic of India. I need not "certify" these.

Originally Posted by deehunk

[*]Certain states like TN or KL do not issue any kind of permits for Sleeper buses - neither Contract Carriage nor AIP. So, operators are forced to "buy" permits from states like AR.
- There is no obligation to buy permits from NE states to run a bus service without hidden benefits.

There is no obligation to do any thing. But, the transport industry is a demand run industry, and passengers demand sleeper coaches. When there is a demand, any industry would try to meet the demand. When states come up with their own unique rules - which have no basis, the operators would surely find ways of circumventing the stupidity that prevails in the state.

Originally Posted by deehunk

[*]Karnataka operators avoid PY for another reason - being the greed of Karnataka RTO. Karnataka forces operators with buses registered out of KA to pay annual tax on their vehicles - for a 30 berth sleeper bus it works out to about 6.5~7 Lakhs per bus - it isn't a small amount to shell out in one go.
- Again, there is no obligation here to run a bus service and you are criticising a constitutional body at personal level because the rules do not favour the business.

C'mon. This very forum supports mods done on vehicles - how much of that is legal? There are posts that recommend high wattage bulbs - how legal is that? Isn't that a violation of rules set by these constitutional bodies?

There is no "obligation" to run a bus service - going by that thought, there is no obligation for people to open businesses, run shops, etc. Being a "constitutional body" doesn't give freedom to any state government to do whatever it likes. We are in a democratic country, and my rights do allow me to "criticise" what I feel is wrong.

Edit: Appending another reply

Originally Posted by SchumiFan

Small update, bus is running tonight. Hope we reach Bangalore like every other day.

Will have to shoot a mail to the management on this issue.

We are in India! Karnataka RTO came up with a brilliant idea to make money. A day after AR announced that the RCs of these buses are invalid, the RTOs in Bangalore began raiding and seizing AR registered buses. But guess what - they released buses accepting bribes! We live in a country where everything is ruled by Shri Mahatma Gandhi himself.

[SchumiFan]

Bus came to the destination as usual. No stopping by RTO anywhere. Reading all the posts, the invalidation of the registration seems silly.

You either do or don't. Don't go reversing the permits issued if there​ are no legal problems with it.

Just stop issuing new ones.

[ksameer1234]

I believe this approach of state-level RTOs and their near unlimited autonomy is highly anti-competitive and monopolistic in nature. In a competitive set-up every state government should have opportunity to maximise their revenue by offering best deals to citizens.

Take example of a north-east state vs Karnataka. Clearly, Karnataka has huge advantage in terms of being hot-bed for employment and industrialisation. In such case, to compete with heavily industrialised states, a NE state can offer lower registration cost to earn revenues. Now to register a vehicle in NE state, one would need to have address in that state which would further bring revenues.

Anyways, when a AR registered bus plies in KA and refuels in KA, the state earns all the tax on fuel. Further, it earns tax by issuing various permits. Now if developed states want to mop up every single piece on table and further monopolize the market through restrictive approach, how do we expect other states to earn revenues? Would MH or KA have been in position to charge ridiculous registration tax had they been some remote state? Do remote states charge low tax because they have attained nirvana and don't want the money?

In an ideal scenario, one should be to register vehicle where one finds best deal and then pay tax on the go wherever one operates. Let the states then compete or see their revenues swindle due to their greed.

[narayans80]

Originally Posted by binaiks

Karnataka, for example, issues only Contract Carriage permits for Sleeper buses - which is detrimental if you plan to operate interstate.

KPN did operate Madras-Bangalore sleeper bus routes with KA license plates. How are they able to do that? I remember even Sharma had KA plates.

[SchumiFan]

The bus I travelled isn't accepting ticket booking for that service any more. I cancelled the ticket and opted for an open ticket.

I get a code for the full amount of my ticket with a validity of 90 days. I can use it on booking ticket with Asian Xpress again.

I simply love this option and wish more companies offer this.

Hoping this issue is resolved soon. There are a large number of operators with buses registered​ in AR and it will cause huge chaos with Ramzan long weekend coming shortly.

Booked the ticket in their Volvo service(Rs.800). Paid 99 rupees after deduction of this amount.

One more reason to choose this operator 😀

[binaiks]

Originally Posted by narayans80

KPN did operate Madras-Bangalore sleeper bus routes with KA license plates. How are they able to do that? I remember even Sharma had KA plates.

They operate on a Contract Carriage permit itself. They take a special permit, and pay quarterly tax. Even KPN and Sharma moved over to PY registration now. KPN got a few with AR plates as well.

Originally Posted by SchumiFan

I simply love this option and wish more companies offer this.

Its an option provided by TicketSimply, a ticketing service provider. All operators using the TicketSimply platform offer this service.

[SchumiFan]

Originally Posted by binaiks

They operate on a Contract Carriage permit itself. They take a special permit, and pay quarterly tax. Even KPN and Sharma moved over to PY registration now. KPN got a few with AR plates as well.

Yup. KPN has one PY registered sleeper operating from Adyar. The other is still a KA I think (1813). 1812/1813 were the services that were running in this route. Guess one burned during the issue last year.

Originally Posted by binaiks

Its an option provided by TicketSimply, a ticketing service provider. All operators using the TicketSimply platform offer this service.

Thank you! I learned something new today. I have checked the list and it is quite long. SRS, Kallada G4 use them as well along with National and Jabbar.

Don't think I am paying cancellation charge wherever possible in the future 😀