[Nav-i-gator]

While the technology is still in early phases, there is merit in early adoption in India (yes, in India). Reason - promoting innovation. We have long been a country adopting existing (most of the times, already rudimentary) technologies, rather than putting onus on innovation. Now that the country is growing fast, we need to promote innovative technologies. Imagine the kind of experience and expertise gained through this (and many more such new technologies/innovations/ideas put to action) project and how much early mover advantage it would give to the engineers, project managers, scientists and other people involved in the project.

This is a long term investment, not only as a transport solution, but as an investment in innovation lead growth.

[androdev]

For a developed country that already has a great road and rail infrastructure, this will not look very attractive at this stage. We have a clean slate - we don't have bullet trains and Autobahns - so it makes sense to look at technologies that can help us leapfrog the road and rail infrastructure development. If mobile telephony hadn't happened, we would have been one of the most poorly connected countries in the world.

There is another benefit in looking at technologies like this. There is no minimum quality/safety standards that must be met to call something a road or railway track in our country. Only by sheer luck you reach home without an incident. Hyperloop like technology will guarantee certain minimum level of quality/safety standard, similar to airports and runways. Hyperloop may seem risky as a technology but I am sure it will be safer than air travel (which is already considered a lot safer than road travel).

Yes we can certainly wait for other countries to beta test this but maybe this is an opportunity to be at the forefront instead of trying to build bullet/highspeed trains on our British era railway tracks.

[airbender]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

Why spend billions of dollars of money to save just 20mins?

This is only a pilot. Though the Govt has not said this, if it works it will be extended to Vizag, probably to chennai and hyderabad. Vijayawada to vijag/Chennai/Hyderabad is one of the most busiest routes in the country. Once the full scale is implemented there would be enough people willing to use it even at its very high cost.

This money can be used for so many other welfare, development, educational needs of the poor.

In a democracy a govt is supposed to work for everyone not just the poor. There are enough upper middle class and rich people in the country who need to be taken care off. If the Govt thinks there will be enough demand , then it can go ahead with it. I think thats what they are going to do in the next 6 months.

Originally Posted by abhishek46

Why not let Dubai and Singapore do it first, and show us the claimed cost effectiveness or the time effectiveness as claimed?

LA is already doing it. Cost/time effectiveness is already proved. The only question is demand which will be determined in the next 6 months.

Originally Posted by abhishek46

The price for this technology will surely come down at a later stage. Why not adopt it then?

In other words lets be laggards in adopting tech and keep complaining about being a poor country. This is nothing but a slaves mentality.


The only question here is do we have enough demand at that price. I am from Hyderabad and lot of people travel to and from hyderabad to vijaz/vijayawada/Chennai on business purpose. They would love to use this as an option. Lets c what the study says!

Coming to the question of why do we need this, heard about productivity? There are enough no of people in our country who need faster travel and are willing to pay for it. It improves productivity and also economic growth. This means of transport does not use fossil fuel.

There are some routes in the country where upgrading to latest tech like hyperlope/HSR will be more feasible than upgrading existing or adding new tracks.

[phamilyman]

Early adoption is pointless for Indian states, with their weak finances and the perennial demand for free power or farm loan waivers or irrigation projects or all the other populist schemes that happen.

I am all for technology. But at the right time.

Pop quiz - should states have invested in solar at 12rs/kW or only when it fell to 4-5Rs and has now touched Rs 3 levels?

Early adoption makes sense for countries like China. They throw tens of billions of dollars, building up entire technological ecosystems, gain cost advantage (see the number of non-Chinese solar companies wiped out) and then they win globally.

What lasting advantage does this investment get?

Let's take the end 2016 confirmed (not leaked) numbers - $52 mn/mile = 211cr/km. let's take 210 round figure.
That's 8400 crores for 40km. i.e 3.36 cr per job created. These 2500 jobs would mostly be jobs for the construction phase not for operation (as in most such cases).

Why not wait a few years, let costs drop substantially, and then invest? Economies of scale are a beautiful thing, friends.
PS: Please note, Indian government defense purchases include technology transfer for a reason. I don't see any such clause here. If there is, then there's long term value. Else, I'm not sure - buying and driving a BMW doesn't make one capable of manufacturing one.

[srishiva]

This would be much safer than the bullet train that we are starting, right ? Although I dont understand the time saved and how important that is.
At such high costs, it only serves intra city travel (longer routes though) better than inter city. The speeds that they have achieved is still very less and does not offer a big advantage.

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by airbender

In other words lets be laggards in adopting tech and keep complaining about being a poor country. This is nothing but a slaves mentality.

So, you think of people, who wait for the "price" of the technology to come down are "Slaves" and "Laggards".

Great!

Instead of blowing money and 'purchasing' a fake tag of superiority, I would rather invest the money in locally available research institutions, to encourage them to develop things of their own.

[ksameer1234]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

So, you think of people, who wait for the "price" of the technology to come down are "Slaves" and "Laggards"

I don't think it is prudent to compare buying iPhone with national infrastructure project. iPhone 8 doesn't do anything which iPhone 7 doesn't. On the contrary, there is no available mobility technology which can compare with Hyperloop.

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by ksameer1234

I don't think it is prudent to compare buying iPhone with national infrastructure project. iPhone 8 doesn't do anything which iPhone 7 doesn't. On the contrary, there is no available mobility technology which can compare with Hyperloop.

From where did you conclude that I am referring to an Iphone?

Technology can mean anything.
It can be a Hyperloop.
It can be a Fifth gen "stealth" fighter jet.
It can be the recently proposed Bullet Train HSR.
It could also be the advance Laser/Robotic Equipped Medical Operation theater as well.

[ksameer1234]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

From where did you conclude that I am referring to an Iphone?

Sorry for jumping to conclusion, I took liberty there since you mentioned about "people who wait for technology", which made me assume you are referring to consumer technology and I took iPhone as just an example. No offence intended.

I would like to see Hyperloop in India offering two-fold benefits. One, it will provide a very fast mode of transport, which is obvious. Two, it will add to manufacturing capabilities of companies who would build this. These companies would then be able to establish themselves as leading providers when Hyperloop becomes popular around the world.

By adopting Hyperloop when it has matured, we will only be awarding contracts to foreign players who will sell their stuff with or without tech transfer.

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by ksameer1234

Sorry for jumping to conclusion, I took liberty there since you mentioned about "people who wait for technology", which made me assume you are referring to consumer technology and I took iPhone as just an example. No offence intended.

I would like to see Hyperloop in India offering two-fold benefits. One, it will provide a very fast mode of transport, which is obvious. Two, it will add to manufacturing capabilities of companies who would build this. These companies would then be able to establish themselves as leading providers when Hyperloop becomes popular around the world.

By adopting Hyperloop when it has matured, we will only be awarding contracts to foreign players who will sell their stuff with or without tech transfer.

No offence taken.

I am not disputing the fact that the Technology is bad.
There could be many advantages of the System, but, it is yet to be demonstrated in the full vigor.

Secondly, there is no reason why our homegrown corporations should not be encouraged to develop locally engineered solutions at a lower cost, rather than buying it off the selves from foreign players.

[ksameer1234]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

There could be many advantages of the System, but, it is yet to be demonstrated in the full vigor.

Eaxctly, and this is why I am a bit wary of the potential benefits. Hyperloop is just an idea. And many aren't impressed by how it is shaping up.

I would like to see adopting Hyperloop in the entrepreneurial spirit, which is fraught with many ifs and buts. If it succeeds, we will be among the pioneers. If it doesn't, well then, we will have competition to the most expensive joyride that is Mumbai Monorail, which by the way is a well-established technology!

[/quote] Secondly, there is no reason why our homegrown corporations should not be encouraged to develop locally engineered solutions at a lower cost, rather than buying it off the selves from foreign players.[/quote]

Nobody has every built Hyperloop. When the work starts in India, it will be Indian corporates who will build it. I am assuming Hyperloop Transport Technologies (HTT) will need to collaborate with local players and HTT will probably only bring the core technology. Please do correct me if I am wrong.

[Nav-i-gator]

HTT is a loose conglomerate of researchers, spread geographically in different locations, who have done extensive research on commercialization of the hyperloop concept. At most, HTT will be involved as consultant, tech demonstrator and R&D provider. HTT is not into construction, so that area would be open for bidding. But that is my guess. Plus, as this whole concept is new with no precedent, all know-how generated will be internalized and hence it is a big opportunity for gaining R&D push in India. If it succeeds, India will be one of the first countries with running line, and the know-how to build and operate it. We would be able to compete globally in expanding the technology to other countries as well (as early mover advantage - we see the same in companies/countries involved in Nuclear reactor building, bullet/MAGLEV trains, even satellite launches).

[bhaskar.guru]

Though I am not against any new technology being brought in to improve the infrastructure, but with Mr.Naidu already running in losses and always asking the center for help, it would be better, he gets the city built and then looks at these things.

Already he is building the city on a river bank on one of the most fertile lands, thereby blocking the underland water channels which provide drinking water to those areas but now this. Not sure what he is up to.

[airbender]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

So, you think of people, who wait for the "price" of the technology to come down are "Slaves" and "Laggards".

There is a difference in people/country or company. Countries or companies compete with each other. And if they have inferior tech they have less productivity and cannot compete with the best. A company or country waiting for prices to go down is not playing to win. They are playing not to lose. So I repeat this is slave mentality.

Originally Posted by abhishek46

Instead of blowing money and 'purchasing' a fake tag of superiority, I would rather invest the money in locally available research institutions, to encourage them to develop things of their own.

Why should it be this or that. Why cannot it be both. If the investment required comes from private sources, then why complain. Not just this, if any private company wants to come and build infrastructure and transfer it to govt at a future date what is the problem. THe other advantages to this are creation of jobs and there will be some tech transfer.

I dont know why people in India are so scared of govt investing for the future. Hitech city building in HYD was first started by the congress govt. They stopped construction as it will be considered to be anti-poor. It was Naidu who got it completed and rest is history.

The points you put up here are just communist propaganda.

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by airbender

The points you put up here are just communist propaganda.

Absolutely do not care if you call us "communists" or "socialist" or "Laggards" or "Slaves".
As tax payers, we have the every right to put forth our opinion.
And We will continue to do so, irrespective of your titles you have bequeathed on us.

As per forum rules, I will not indulge in un-necessary mud slinging, hence, signing out from this discussion, which can hardly be called as healthy.