Team-BHP - An electric airplane? EasyJet wants one!

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow (Post 4288163)

Current technology electric motors cannot power heavy load users like flaps, slats or landing gears. At best it can work compressors for pressurization and air-conditioning (like the 787). .

True, electrical motors/systems will need to be developed in line with batteries. But electrical system are already replacing hydraulic system. 787 has electrical brakes too.

Jeroen

After I posted my previous message on the morphing of the wings, I realised that has been done before!

In fact that is how motorised aviation started. The first powered flight by the Wright brothers December 17th, 1903.

Their plane did not have traditional flight controls as we know them today, but used for instance "wing warping"'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers

But the basic idea between wing warping and wing morphing is identical. You change the shape of the wing so it increases lift on one side and decreases lift on the other side.

Obviously, it's a bit easier to bend a wing made out of a wooden frame and some canvas than an alumunium or composite, but still!

Jeroen

There was ongoing research a few years back on beamable electricity. Something on the likes of using microwave radio signals to beam electrical current/voltage to run electric motors, sans cables or batteries. If this technology matures, the possibility of electric aircraft indeed exists since airplanes can recieve electic power over air, like mobile signals, no need to carry heavy power sources.

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow (Post 4293729)

It's quite simple.
2 batteries. One big, the other tiny.

Carry the biggest battery you can. Use it's power to take off and reach cruising altitude. By then it's power would have gotten exhausted.

Simply jettison the heavy battery.

Continue onwards on your tiny battery with your plane now weighing 50% less.

To prevent any injury to anyone on land who gets brained with the battery, fix small wings or a parachute to the battery and send it earthwards like a feather.

I'm keeping a space on my shelf for my Nobel prize.

Even better.

Equip runways with steam powered aircraft launchers. Load the plane, hook it on to the steam launcher and you'll be off like a slingshot.
This will work for regular 777's too.

Okay that's 2 Nobel prizes.

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Originally Posted by hangover (Post 4294219)

Not so simple. The airplanes need to have margin for diversions, multiple go-arounds due to various reasons etc. One of the biggest issue here is the energy density of currently available battery technology.

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow (Post 4293729)

There was ongoing research a few years back on beamable electricity. .

The first time this was thought off goes all the way back to Tesla apparently!

http://www.teslasociety.com/tesla_tower.htm

No idea what the current state of affairs is though.

Jeroen

Airbus partners with Rolls-Royce and Siemens to build an electric aeroplane.

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In a major move toward that goal, Airbus, Rolls-Royce and Siemens have announced a new partnership to gradually convert a plane to electric propulsion.

The project they are collaborating on is the ‘E-Fan X’, a BAe 146 plane on which they are testing their electric motor technology.

During ground tests, they already replaced one of the four gas turbines by a two-megawatt electric motor.

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Once they better test and understand the first electric motor, they will replace a gas turbine with another one and batteries will support takeoff and climbing.

An electric airplane? EasyJet wants one!-ig2017110016co_c_300dpi1e1511880747584.jpg

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Hybrid/electric airplanes are getting quite some momentum; generating a lot of interest at the recent Paris Air Show.

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According to the consultancy Roland Berger, the number of electric aircraft in development increased by roughly 50% over the past year to 170. The number could swell to 200 by the end of 2019.
There are two big factors driving increased investment: The global aviation industry produces up to 3% of all carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions, a share that's projected to increase sharply in coming years; and it spends roughly $180 billion a year on jet fuel.

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Grabbing most attention in Paris was Israeli planemaker Eviation Aircraft with its announcement that US regional carrier Cape Air would be the first customer for Alice, its electric airplane.
Alice can fly nine passengers up to 650 miles on a single charge, and Eviation claims it can cut airline operating costs by 70%. Manufacturing gets underway in the United States this year.

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United Technologies (UTX) announced plans to merge with defense contractor Raytheon (RTN) just prior to the Paris Auto Show.
And the company had some tech to show off to aviation enthusiasts, pulling back the curtain on a hybrid electric project. The goal is to have planes in the air by 2022.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/20/b...how/index.html

Read about these guys on the BBC.

https://www.magnix.aero/products/

Looks like they have done a few short test runs of their all electric plane.

Some things are unclear, are a concern. I know a skilled pilot can land a plane if it runs out of gas but with these electric things, I wonder how all the controls will keep working if the batteries pack up or something in the electrical circuit blows. Be good to know the fail over methods. I am sure they thought this over in the form of some auxiliary power source.

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan (Post 4753331)

Check out their news session. There is already a first electric commercial flight available. It is a 8-10 minute commercial flight but still.

On these little, single engine planes all the flight controls are mechanically controlled, so pulleys, wires, rods. Even the flaps are mechanically controlled. On some more modern ones the flaps will be electrical. But you can take off and land without flaps too. You need a bit more runway, so you need to that into account during flight planning and prepping.

Electrical instruments will have their own power source, i.e. battery.

Jeroen

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan (Post 4753331)

Some things are unclear, are a concern. I know a skilled pilot can land a plane if it runs out of gas but with these electric things, I wonder how all the controls will keep working if the batteries pack up or something in the electrical circuit blows. Be good to know the fail over methods. I am sure they thought this over in the form of some auxiliary power source.

The FAA may soon come out with a requirement that all electric aircraft have a couple of pedal driven generators for emergency use. Said the air hostess, " alright we need two strong passengers to run ém pedal generators to power those flaps.Volunteers get a free ticket on the next electric flight they take":uncontrol

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan (Post 4753615)

how about doing this on final approach or for that matter to be able to go-around and use full throttle. Does one need to pedal even faster? Reminds me of the days where slaves were used in big ships to paddle. lol:

jokes apart, I myself have worked with a custom-made Oberleschner single engine prop training aircraft with rotax engines and performed hybrid conversion test flights. The same group is now grown and has started to work on silent air-taxis. They have formed a consortium with RWTH Aachen.

https://e-sat.de/de/silent-air-taxi/

At my workplace, the flight research department is currently working on a prototype using a DO-228 platform and testing alternate fuels, hybrid engines on a Eurocopter, Challenger 7000x and A320. They have successfully completed several test flights so far but right now the market itself is bit far away from accepting these test beds as there are several ethical/moral questions that needs to be answered to everyone's satisfaction.

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Originally Posted by AlphaKilo (Post 4753740)

jokes apart, I myself have worked with a custom-made Oberleschner single engine prop training aircraft with rotax engines and performed hybrid conversion test flights. The same group is now grown and has started to work on silent air-taxis. They have formed a consortium with RWTH Aachen.

https://e-sat.de/de/silent-air-taxi/

Thanks for sharing. I had a thorough look at their website. Looks very interesting, but also I think their timeline is very challenging. Looks like they are aiming to be a sensible alternative for the serious business traveller within Europe. Pricing comparable to 1st class trains? To put that in context. A 1st class train return Amsterdam Paris is, depending on exact route, date around Euro 150 - 250. For a 500 km journey, both ways! I would think that is a tough price point to meet!

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Originally Posted by AlphaKilo (Post 4753740)

At my workplace, the flight research department is currently working on a prototype using a DO-228 platform and testing alternate fuels, hybrid engines on a Eurocopter, Challenger 7000x and A320. They have successfully completed several test flights so far but right now the market itself is bit far away from accepting these test beds as there are several ethical/moral questions that needs to be answered to everyone's satisfaction.

What sort of ethical/moral question are involved? E.g. should we focus at all on hybrid propulsion?

Jeroen