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Old 11th October 2017, 16:45   #16
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Re: Prevalence of Force Travellers in the hills?

I do not have hard evidence. The following is based on the noise of the engine only.

I clearly remember the old Tempo Traveler as they were once called. This was a proper Mercedes inside and out. They had the high roof and much later, a low roof version. I liked both. Segment best levels of refinement, driver and passenger comfort. I thought the Tempo Traveler was better than the Japanese offerings by DCM Toyota, Eicher Mitsubishi, Allwyn Nissan and Swaraj Mazda. Carrying capacity was probably the smallest at 14-18 seats or so whereas the Japanese could do 31-32 max.

Need to go OT here. I have spent a good bit of time in a Matador 305 and 307 too. This was back in school. I was offered the wheel a few times (All illegal) and assisted the driver to hold the gear stick in 4th as it would not stay there one morning during the usual pick up round. I have also experienced the infamous front wheel flying off syndrome. For those of you who do not know what this is, the Matador 305 and 307 were front wheel drive initially. It was only much later that they had a rear wheel drive version and limited to the 307. The front wheel drive version had the wheels pivot on a central ball hub. It was not a maintenance specific problem. The wheel just came off that ball hub from time to time. If you were driving too fast and the front wheel did decide to come off, you'd see it for a brief bit, go ahead and beside you, leaving you a little perplexed and amused and before you knew it, you'd crash to the ground.

Coming back to the point. I find that the current Traveler being sold are nowhere as good as the old ones. The engines sound exactly like those found on the old Matador 307. I say 307 specifically as this had the more refined motor. The 305 was literally a tractor sounding motor and under powered. I feel that the new Travelers don't move as effortlessly as the original too even though they claim to have more power. With the aircon is running, it sounds like the engine is starved of air. Even the idling is nowhere like the old Mercedes engine. Sounds very crude. The Common Rail version probably has closer ties to a Mercedes block.

The Traveler continues to be a very successful model for Force Motors.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 11th October 2017 at 16:47.
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Old 11th October 2017, 18:01   #17
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Re: Prevalence of Force Travellers in the hills?

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Originally Posted by anshumandun View Post
I travel daily in Force Traveler to my office. I've never seen the driver use first gear. When asked, he just said that 1st gear is too powerful and he uses it only on steep slopes. That speaks a lot about the powerful engine and good torque that these vehicles have.
Just a note - what that really means is that the 1st gear is really short. Some CVs have incredibly short 1st (and even 2nd) gears that come in handy when the vehicle is full with people or to climb up inclines. My Jeep's 1st gear is like that (for offroading) - it's so short that the action in 1st is over before you know it .
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Old 11th October 2017, 19:54   #18
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Re: Prevalence of Force Travellers in the hills?

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Originally Posted by ashwin1224 View Post
I've been to a few Himalayan States and one thing has been common throughout, Force Travelers. I've been to the mountains on various vehicles and I've seen people preparing their vehicles for months before finally embarking on for the treacherous trails. While I see these stock buses being virtually omnipresent!

What makes these vehicles such good mountain goats? I checked their specs and they are mediocre for a vehicle this big. The older ones even lack power steering and ABS, and they are seldom unloaded. This question has been bugging me for months now. I was reading up on motor homes, and the smallest Traveler, 3050 seems perfect for one or two people.

Do we under-rate our vehicles? Are normal cars good enough to tackle most roads? Or are these Travelers seriously good offroaders? Ive not driven one so I dont know and I wish to know more about these brutes. On the other hand Ive seen one pulling out a stranded 4x4 bolero out of the Pangong Tso, so they definitely are capable. Or is it purely because of the skilled himalayan drivers?
Force Traveler if i am not incorrect is a 14 seater one & for a travelling party of 10 odd people with luggage is a perfect fit. It is not too large for a bus say & neither too small for a five seater; it's just about perfect from people carrying point of view.

The driving dynamics look awesome & almost carlike ( haven't driven one yet )& when you drive along, just as CrazyDriver says, damn irritating to shake off, particularly in the Ghat sections. There's a certain agility with this model that is hard to let go i suppose because wherever you see this, it's always driven rapidly. I have not had longer journeys, only Mumbai-Pune-Mumbai ones & it held it's nerve pretty well.

I had once taken a Tata Winger along Mumbai-Kolhapur-Mumbai route, 8 people travelled (9 incl Driver) & the travel was super smooth. Great engine, wonderful aircon. Not seen on the road as much as the Force Traveller though, don't know the reason why
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Old 11th October 2017, 21:23   #19
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Re: Prevalence of Force Travellers in the hills?

Based on the chats I've had with our office drivers, Tempo Travellers (or 'TT's as they call it, and they dont use the new name 'Force') the engine/clutch are very reliable and they are incredibly fuel efficient, they can give an average of 16-17 kmpl when driven on highways and have a reasonable turning radius. The width too is shorter than competition and it makes driving in tiny lanes (Goa ?) easier. This is a perfect combination for fleet owners.
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Old 11th October 2017, 21:55   #20
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Re: Prevalence of Force Travellers in the hills?

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Originally Posted by Nagesh Bhatt View Post
I had once taken a Tata Winger along Mumbai-Kolhapur-Mumbai route, 8 people travelled (9 incl Driver) & the travel was super smooth. Great engine, wonderful aircon. Not seen on the road as much as the Force Traveller though, don't know the reason why
Tata Winger is basically the Renault Trafik Mk 1. Hence another stable product. I believe the styling went against it. Else it would have made a nice product.
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Old 11th October 2017, 22:30   #21
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Re: Prevalence of Force Travellers in the hills?

Now that the Winger is out with a 2.2 CRDI, I would love to have a comparison with the latest Tempo traveller. I too am looking out for a good motor home option in India. There's plenty of drool worthy options in the US, but we need a value for money motor home in India. Don't have a budget to invest in those offered by JCBL.
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Old 12th October 2017, 05:41   #22
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Re: Prevalence of Force Travellers in the hills?

Appears that the thread is moving to Traveller's likes (rather than its off-road abilities). It's like Delroy Lindo being recognized after decades of work

Off-topic, the Force Traveller is available in dozens of seating configuration/ combination. I recently saw a Traveller 80% of full sized Bus and remember seeing a low height one with almost Innova like length in Jaisalmer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
I do not have hard evidence. The following is based on the noise of the engine only.

Coming back to the point. I find that the current Traveler being sold are nowhere as good as the old ones. The engines sound exactly like those found on the old Matador 307. I say 307 specifically as this had the more refined motor. The 305 was literally a tractor sounding motor and under powered.
Sandeep, you just gave insights into something which nobody could ever do on Team-BHP. We had the 305 and the 307 (Long ago) and the engine note you brought up is spot-on!
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Old 12th October 2017, 08:11   #23
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Re: Prevalence of Force Travellers in the hills?

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Originally Posted by NiInJa View Post
Based on the chats I've had with our office drivers, Tempo Travellers (or 'TT's as they call it, and they dont use the new name 'Force') the engine/clutch are very reliable and they are incredibly fuel efficient, they can give an average of 16-17 kmpl when driven on highways and have a reasonable turning radius. The width too is shorter than competition and it makes driving in tiny lanes (Goa ?) easier. This is a perfect combination for fleet owners.
16-17kmpl on the highways sounds amazing! However, I feel it will be offset by the high toll busses have to pay. As a personal camper vehicle, the traveler is increasingly becoming drool worthy for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by human_wheels View Post
Now that the Winger is out with a 2.2 CRDI, I would love to have a comparison with the latest Tempo traveller. I too am looking out for a good motor home option in India. There's plenty of drool worthy options in the US, but we need a value for money motor home in India. Don't have a budget to invest in those offered by JCBL.
The only short fall with the Winger is its low GC, coupled with a low cabin height limits its potential for a good motorhome. The Renault Traffic, on which the winger is based was once a great camper van though. There was also a Winnebago LeSharo, which was a modified Traffic. Winnebago has been the leader in motorhomes for decades now, and the LeSharo's existence proves how good the Traffic was, and how good the Winger is.

However, the situation in India is different for motorhomes. Most of the places fit for caravan travels are connected by questionable roads at best. The Winger looses out on the GC front against the Traveler, which being based on a Mercedes platform has proved itself to be an utter beast on the road.

I honestly did not expect this thread to recieve such a response
Its great to read all the information about the Traveler, it has only bolstered the desire to get a Traveler motorhome in my heart
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:19   #24
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Re: Prevalence of Force Travellers in the hills?

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Ahem!
Frankly I really hate the Travellers out on the roads, being used as company cabs. They have the size, the power, the sheer road presence and is extremely hard to get rid of them from getting irritatingly close to the car from the rear.
It is rather funny but I am so happy that this is brought up over here. I have no experience of Force Travellers (neither as passenger nor as driver ) so not aware of their capabilities. But the fact of the matter is that they are very hard to get rid of on the roads.

Now I know after reading this thread that it is a combination of the vehicles DNA (Daimler-Benz connection) and drivers who have such a capable machine at their hands.
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Old 12th October 2017, 09:51   #25
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Re: Prevalence of Force Travellers in the hills?

My office uses around 140 Force Travellers for employee transport and every evening it is a sight to see so many come and line up in the office parking lot. There is a limitation that these should not be more than 3 years old and hence, I see them in pristine condition. I availed the experience of going home in the TT only once, which was the last day I ever took the office cab home. Though the ride was comfortable and smooth, the driving was nothing short of shock inducing. Since I was the newbie, I got to sit in the front row and that isnt a good place to be in.

Lets leave the rant and come to the technicality. I get to deal with these guys during my commute and the vehicle is pretty competent and thats what makes the guys so rash. However, there are sedately driven TTs as well, depending upon the driver and the temperament of the people inside. An empty TT can put some big cars to shame and get ahead of traffic. The new CR engine develops good torque from the bottom end itself and one can hear the turbo spooling up very early. There is also a warning inside the cabin which instructs the driver not to engage the fifth gear below 50 or 40kmph IIRC else it would result in clutch failure. Initially I used to wonder why this, since the vehicle would just not pull at that low speed in a high gear. I realised that the engine develops good torque to fry the clutch if it is loaded at a high gear. The noise is also not too high and is a nice clatter.

Does the TT also have a booster assisted clutch? I wonder how the drivers manage to withstand crawling traffic unless the clutch is really light or it is power assisted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post

And many locations that is out of bounds for cars, these fellas are parked there when you reach the summit!
Agree. A few months back we had been to a trek to Tadiyandamol in Kodagu to which I had rented an XUV. We went up the road till a certain point where the road had trenches on either side and only a two wheeler could pass straight in the middle, while jeeps had to do off roading and get ahead. The jeep owners wanted some money so they told cars couldnt go further ahead and only 4X4s could go. However we began our hike there, and after passing through all the muck and slush and a steep slope for some 1km or so, we found a TT parked there. I couldnt believe how it could have got till there.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:30   #26
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Re: Prevalence of Force Travellers in the hills?

I am so glad to see this thread and an active discussion on TT after ages !!! I have been drooling after getting one for last 3 years as a mobile home-office and set off on months long trips.

I have been to the Force dealers office a few times here in Bangalore and made calls to a few across cities in South India. And I have still not bought one despite "everything" being available - money, parking space, etc, etc ...

Why?
Because it can't be registered as a white board, private vehicle!

The "only" way is a yellow board taxi and then all the hassles o that - regular quarterly or annual tax, a taxi permit, etc. I want to use it solely for private purposes, customise it etc but registration can "only" be yellow board !!!

In early Sep, the Bangalore dealer mentioned that a 6 seater version with a large back empty space had been proposed to the RTO in Bangalore as a white board registerable version but so far the RTO has not reverted. I called the dealer a few times and finally, he said, "Sir, I will call you when it happens!!"

A dealer in Chennai said they used to get white board permission for charities and NGOs etc earlier but now that has also become difficult. He said he would check and revert. But he also wanted to know how many TTs I wanted. Obviously I told him ONE, and he never called back.

If anyone can help in finding a way to register the TT as a white board in Bangalore (and if that is impossible then in Chennai / Hyderabad / Calicut) then please, please, please reach out to me. I am happy to place the order for the TT the very day I am clear a white board registration is possible.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:35   #27
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Re: Prevalence of Force Travellers in the hills?

Yes ! we do under-rate our cars. I was born and brought up in the foothills of the Himalaya. And, the most common car which you'll find from kashmir to nepal is humble and the least powerful Maruti 800 (or Alto). You don't always need a low range 4x4 to conquer those tight hairpin bends and single lane broken patches. All the vehicles pass a basic gradient test and all these roads are built accordingly. So a car which struggles to climb a ramp in your basement parking, might not feel that much underpowered in the Himalayan roads.
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Old 12th October 2017, 10:45   #28
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Re: Prevalence of Force Travellers in the hills?

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Originally Posted by NiInJa View Post
have a reasonable turning radius. The width too is shorter than competition and it makes driving in tiny lanes (Goa ?) easier.
Only 6.5 meters (source)! That is tiny for its size & people carrying capacity. The old Safari had a 6m turning radius, while the V-Cross has a 6.3m one.
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Old 12th October 2017, 11:27   #29
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Re: Prevalence of Force Travellers in the hills?

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Originally Posted by Musa View Post
Why?
Because it can't be registered as a white board, private vehicle!

In early Sep, the Bangalore dealer mentioned that a 6 seater version with a large back empty space had been proposed to the RTO in Bangalore as a white board registerable version but so far the RTO has not reverted. I called the dealer a few times and finally, he said, "Sir, I will call you when it happens!!"

A dealer in Chennai said they used to get white board permission for charities and NGOs etc earlier but now that has also become difficult. He said he would check and revert. But he also wanted to know how many TTs I wanted. Obviously I told him ONE, and he never called back.
The college in which I did my engineering had a white board TT with upgraded seats which was used by the secretary to travel places for some CSR activities and also when multiple board members had to travel around. However, it was in the name of an educational trust and hence I guess it was possible. But why is it that a personal registration cant be done on the TT?

And most of our office TTs are brought in Hosur in TN and registered in KA. How does that work out? Is there any savings on tax or price? As far as I understand, it is more cumbersome.
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Old 12th October 2017, 11:29   #30
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Re: Prevalence of Force Travellers in the hills?

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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Does the TT also have a booster assisted clutch? I wonder how the drivers manage to withstand crawling traffic unless the clutch is really light or it is power assisted.

Are you referring to the hydraulic assist Master/Slave cylinder arrangement? if yes, then this is the norm with almost all four wheelers.

If you meant the Pneumatic (Air) assisted Clutches, then I am not too sure about them.
Request CV experts to share insights on the topic.
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