[targaryen]

The service connects my home town of Bhavnagar to Surat. While it is true that there is a lot of movement of people between Surat and the Saurashtra region of Gujarat (as most of the diamond traders and workers are migrants from Saurashtra), I still have my doubts about the viability of this service for the following reason:

Ghogha port is a 30 min drive from Bhavnagar and Surat is approx. 2 and a half hours from Dahej. The passenger ferry is claimed to cover the nautical distance in an hour at the least. Total travel time from Bhavnagar to Surat by ferry would be 3 hours. This does not include the time taken to buy tickets, loading, unloading and waiting for the ferry and time taken to wait for transport to Ghogha/Dahej and vice versa from Surat/Bhavnagar (since it is currently a passenger ferry and not a RORO ferry, private vehicles won't be an option). These factors are bound to increase the journey by another hour. Therefore, approx. travel time for Bhavnagar to Surat comes to 4 hours. This is 4 hours of day time travel. The existing rail/road connectivity is in the form of night trains/buses that take about 7-8 hours to reach Surat early in the morning. Cost of an AC sleeper bus ticket is around 500 Rs. and I am assuming that the train would be cheaper. Effective saving of travel time is 3 hours. However, it comes with added hassles of changing multiple vehicles for transport and travelling during day time (precious business hours) at about the same cost (ferry is said to have been priced at 650 Rs.). I don't see many takers from the Surat - Bhavnagar business community for this service whereas it is claimed to be targeted towards this very demographic. The only takers for this service in my humble opinion are people who want a joy ride or people who really need to reach Surat/Bhavnagar on an urgent basis on the same day but can't afford the air taxi (Air Taxi between Surat and Bhavnagar airports is a 30 minute flight that costs 2500 Rs.).

[nijelj]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

I don't think that this is being promoted as "first of its kind in India".

Originally Posted by ani_meher

However since the picture is heavily politicized, mods may remove or edit it. Attachment 1688818

It is being promoted as a first of its kind in South Asia (so India is included), see ani_meher's post.

I also knew of Jangars (possibly from the Junkers diesel engines) running in Kerala that does the same job. After reading through this thread, there seems to be other places where a water based, engine-propelled, vessel is used to transport Cars and buses and people. So not sure what's the uniqueness of the Ro-Ro (Roll On-Roll Off ?)

If it needs to be labeled a 'Gift to Gujarat' there should something different about this. Does anyone know what that is ?

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by nijelj

It is being promoted as a first of its kind in South Asia
If it needs to be labeled a 'Gift to Gujarat' there should something different about this. Does anyone know what that is ?

This project is part of $120 billion "Sagar Mala" project that will involve building small ports at multiple locations all along the coast.
http://deshgujarat.com/2016/11/24/sa...ts-in-gujarat/



Industrial corridors are likely to be built around these ports.

[ritz3645]

615 Crore was spent on this project to have a approach or pier, for the difference of high and low tide. Someone can share more on it.

Gujarat govt earlier had plans to dam the whole estuary from one end to another, and let Narmada water empty in it so as to create a large fresh water body for the area.
This led to study of tides and if construction will be feasible.

The tides are a major block to any construction hence the cost of this project.

Fyi : Am not from GJ and have spend only one day in Ahemdabad.

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by nijelj

It is being promoted as a first of its kind in South Asia (so India is included), see ani_meher's post.

May be due to many reasons.

I am sure no one would be foolish enough to promote this as "first of its kind in whole of South Asia" without completely remaining oblivious to the fact that ferry services (People and vehicles) are already operational across the entire coastline of our country connecting various locations as most of responded here. This is because such services always go under seal of ministry of transport anyway.

I for one have taken couple of ferry services myself and one in the recent past too, hence even I am not ignoring the fact that something like this (closely) exists.

So not sure what's the uniqueness of the Ro-Ro (Roll On-Roll Off ?)

We are a terminology savvy country aren't we . Give cool sounding names for a basic service and then it feels different to say you took the ro-ro and not the ferry like you did the Bengaluru Darshan through the Hop-On-Hop-Off service.

Few things that come to my mind:

The ferry will be able to carry up to 100 vehicles (cars, buses and trucks) and 250 passengers between the two ports - 100 Vehicles to me is a big numberif they really mean in one go!

And like many of us, it did surprise many:

This surprised many as RoRo vessels are already being used by companies to move cars, coal and fertiliser across the country. All key ports in the country provide RoRo shipping service

And also talked about how these kind of services are already there for both passengers and vehicles:

The only difference is that the Ghogha-Dahej route carries passenger traffic too, unlike others which are exclusively being used for transporting goods. However, even here, much smaller ferries in Goa, Kerala and Andaman transport passengers too. In Maharashtra, ferry services are available between Alibaug and Mumbai (Gateway of India). In fact, the fastest and cheapest way to travel between the two places is ferry.

Source 1
Source 2

If it needs to be labeled a 'Gift to Gujarat' there should something different about this. Does anyone know what that is ?

And here's a 2 minute clip that talks everything that we are discussing here, to clear the air, that also says it will be one of its kind mainly due to its scale, the state-of -the-art transit points (if they may use some liberty of speech)only once it is fully operational, till then rest of the ferry services functional across India can rename themselves as ro-ro too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVpOwoh7kkY

[Contrapunto]

Originally Posted by amrutmhatre90

This is a great news, places where-in we have no more place to build highways or fly-overs this is a great alternative.

Similar thing is going to happen soon in Mumbai but with ferry's carrying cars, the route will be Ferry Wharf (a.k.a Bhau cha Dhakka) to Alibag (Mandwa). Heard this will start sometime in November with rates approx Rs.650/- for cars with 4 passengers. Current route is of 110 to 140 kms by road. This ferry route will reduce the route to 15-17 kms by water.

Currently there are a lot of people who travel by ferry daily between Mumbai to Alibag from Gateway of India. This Ro-Ro Ferry will be a welcome addition.

This service (as well as the Chowpatty- Juhu service) was plagued by rough seas during monsoons, when they could not operate the ferry a number of days, and there were very little occupancy through much of the monsoons. The (high) fare necessary during peak season to cover this seasonal variation would not have cut it with the public, and the government was not in favour of the subsidy needed to cover this gap.

Maybe the situation (and public awareness) is higher now....

[amrutmhatre90]

Originally Posted by Contrapunto

This service (as well as the Chowpatty- Juhu service) was plagued by rough seas during monsoons, when they could not operate the ferry a number of days, and there were very little occupancy through much of the monsoons.

Even now during monsoon period the ferry service between Mumbai to Alibag gets shut down from 1st July to Oct. Me and my dad are frequent traveler's from this ferry

[NH7]

Whoa! What bombastic words and media coverage this whole thing is getting! Mountain out of a molehill, IMO. A typical RoRo ship carries 6000 cars, a typical fast ferry does 40+ knots, and I have encountered ferrys between Svalbard-Norway, and Tasmania-Melbourne doing duty in Force 8-9 weather. While we, inspite of the length and promise of our coastline, think a bus on a boat is a big deal, accept our shipping law allotting half a square meter of deck space per Haj pilgrim passenger, and notify Mainland to Port Blair passengers to carry 2 loaves of bread and 6 lemons!! Amazing indeed...

[hangover]

May I suggest reader's please read old British documents. They are available on archive.org

Inland waterways transport has been analyzed and documented for ALL Indian river's. Not recently. More than 150 years ago.

All our rivers are about 60-70% navigable by low draft ships.

The lowest draft available then was 18 inches for a ganga barge. Draft is the portion of the ship below the water.
Such a barge could carry 10-15 tons of cargo.

Godavari, narmada, ganga and all other rivers were carefully analyzed by eminent brit geologists and their findings are all documented on that website.

The recent (last year I think) linking of krishna and Godavari by the CM of Andhra was merely a fulfillment of a plan original conceived in 1890.

By the way, there is some controversial discussion on a canal across Adams bridge b/w India and Sri Lanka. I assure you that the British had already implemented it. It was proved uneconomic and abandoned soon after.

Off topic:
The war between Ram and Ravana did not happen in Lanka, the one we see now.
It happened on SUVELA, a now sunken continent. In the middle of the bay of Bengal.

Both India and SUVELA were visible from Lanka (not the rock you see now, bigger), and India. Did anyone seriously think a man like Ram needed to build a bridge to get to present day Lanka? Even I can cross Adams bridge if I felt like now.

The very first commercial telegram in the world was sent from present day Calcutta to Delhi. The Hoogly river was used as a conductor.

Off topic (again), the world's first fingerprint detection department was in Calcutta with Indian blokes (don't remember names, my humble apologies) in lead posts.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by NH7

A typical RoRo ship carries 6000 cars, a typical fast ferry does 40+ knots, and I have encountered ferrys between Svalbard-Norway, and Tasmania-Melbourne doing duty in Force 8-9 weather.

Just to share some facts. The idea is not to question what you write.
‎
1) Ro-Ro ships typically transport 150 to 300 cars and 600 to 1200 passengers. The world's largest Ro Ro ferry MV Colour Magic is designed for 550 cars & 2700 passengers

2) The design traits of a Ro-Ro do not lend it to speed or rough weather. The design limitations make a Ro-Ro weak on coping with ship roll & to an extent pitch. I can write on these design limitations but will keep that for another time. A typical Ro Ro sails at 14 to 18 knots. Doing 20 to 22 knots (37 to 42 kmph) would be exceptional. ‎There is only one warship in the whole world (USS Freedom of the US Navy) that can clip at 40 knots (74 kmph) sustained - here I am ignoring speed boats which are tiny and specialized for speed only.

3) Sea State 8 means 46 feet high waves at an average which means some will be worse. Sea State 9 is the worst a mariner can expect to face other than a 100 year storm. ‎A skipper of a Ro-Ro would not venture out in Sea State 7.
‎

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by nijelj

If it needs to be labeled a 'Gift to Gujarat' there should something different about this. Does anyone know what that is ?

The different is just the timing of this as is the naming, as is obvious to anyone that is conversant with political news.

When I see the map, it is an obvious solution that was not put in place although the state has had long spells of rule by more than one party.

Perhaps the economics did not make sense.

[us.dash]

Originally Posted by targaryen

The service connects my home town of Bhavnagar to Surat. While it is true that there is a lot of movement of people between Surat and the Saurashtra region of Gujarat (as most of the diamond traders and workers are migrants from Saurashtra), I still have my doubts about the viability of this service for the following reason:

.... and Bhavnagar airports is a 30 minute flight that costs 2500 Rs.).

Interesting viewpoint!
The success of the project would be dependent on a few other factors:
1. Road Connectivity: If the road is well maintained and improved to a 4-lane national highway condition, then the travel times at both ends would significantly decrease. I would envisage a road travel time of an hour and fifteen minutes.
2. Ro-Ro Operations: Need to be bench marked with the best in the world. Case in point would be the English Channel Ro-Ro. The key here is loading / unloading time. This has to be highly organised and managed well. Manage it like Indigo / Go Air and not Air India.

Both put together would reduce total door to door travel time which is of essence.

If the passenger can travel from Surat at 5:30 PM and reach Bharuch even by 8:30 PM, then it is an extra night with the family, which is worth something.

To me the primary user base should be trucking and logistic firms. By using Ro-Ro a truck can reach from Bhiwandi to Bhavnagar ( and most of Saurashtra) in a day, due to a 4-5 reduction in journey time. This would lead to significant improvement in utilization levels. During the ferry loading/ unloading and sea journey, cars would have no advantage over heavy trucks.

A key secondary benefit would be enhanced tourism in the Saurashtra region. As it provides an opportunity to reach Saurashtra from Mumbai in an easy day's drive, there would be many more takers for it.

I have tracked this project since 2013 and have not travelled to Saurashtra, waiting for its completion. Now I can drive from Mumbai and reach Bhavnagar / Palitana EASILY on Day 1 of my journey. Earlier I would either stay in Ahmedabad or have to drive in the night.

I would not be surprised if tourism in Bhavnagar, Junagarh, Rajkot, Porbandar and Dwarka increases substianally because of this project.

us.dash

PS: Winter is Coming!

[Nissan1180]

While this is definitely not something new for the country, I'm glad that so much noise is being made about it. Water transport is under exploited in India. We have such a long coast line, yet there are no services that connect cities via the sea. We have thousands of kilometers of rivers, yet there are few services for passenger transport. At least with the hype, more people and hopefully more state governments will start looking at opportunities for utilizing rivers for transportation.


When rivers are utilized for transportation, they will be maintained (unlike what's happening now). I hope this service becomes viable financially. I remember when the BRTS was launched in Ahmedabad, the frequency of buses was quite high. Now, it is just one bus in 15-20 minutes in many areas. We used to use it earlier but it is simply too inconvenient for short distances now. People in the locality that I stay in prefer using shared autorickshaws or motorcycles for short commutes. This is being faced by a service provider for buses, so we can expect how uncertain the frequency of the ferry service could be in the long run if it doesn't catch up.
Let's hope for the best.

[norhog]

The estuary or the channel in the area between Dahej and Ghogha has very strong tidal current with tidal range of 9 meters during full moon.
Also the sea around Dahej is choppy in monsoon. So a full moon tide in monsoon would require a very strong ship, reliable engines and great harbor piloting skills to have a service about hourly or so.
Or else if it is only during slack water time, i.e when the tides change, it would be a ferry service every 6 hours. Not sure how effective that will be.
Another aspect is that the water there is brakish and high mud content.
Better have the vessels engine jacket water cooler and pumps suitably designed..
And last but not the least, adding to the above there is a LNG terminal and a berth for tankers and bulk carriers. (Coal jetty). The port operations of these vessels should not interfere with the service.
Not a pessimist here but hope Gujarat Maritime board has taken all this into account before making the announcement. From what I know of their track record, most of the buoys in the gulf of Khambatt don't function and till recently they had not clearly defined the anchorages around Dahej.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by ani_meher

OT, but cue the environmentalists to stop any further progress that may help India. I wonder when the protests and dharnas will start to oppose this?!

EDIT: This image posted by the party in power shows the distances from Bhavnagar to Bharuch,

Two things - if the environment in the region gets damaged due to say constructing roads in the coastal regulatory zone then that is ultimately a dead loss for the people of the area. Save a few hours and maybe crores if rupees but ultimately a much lower quality of and possibly shorter life (guess what happens when a coastal zone where water is supposed to drain into the sea gets constructed over?). So - I haven’t seen the environmental impact studies for this but please don’t underrate them or think it is simply a matter for activists to do dharnas on, that is short sighted.

Secondly - ro ro has been in the south Asian region for ages so this is a last and not a first.

http://www.sify.com/news/pm-modi-s-c...Q5ddheahg.html