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Old 2nd December 2017, 23:16   #1
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Default Dassault Falcon 8X comes to India

She's here, and she's gorgeous. If you thought the normal Dassault Falcon 7X was long - guess what. The 8X is 3.5 feet longer and she's the biggest, grandest private jet any big boy with a lot of $$$ can afford.

God knows what she costs, but it's definitely the aircraft equivalent of the Rolls Royce Phantom.

Dassault Falcons are a preferred model amongst India's high flyers. Most big businessmen have them. Reliance Industries, GMR, Tatas are a few that come to mind (all have more than one Falcon).

Yet, the only closest models in India before were the 7Xs - owned by Jindal Steel and Religare Group.

Now we have the jewel in the Dassault line-up. However I doubt this belongs to a person. It could be the Indian Government's . There are only a living room full of people in India that can afford this and have a genuine intent to buy. Then there are only a bathroom full of people who are dead serious on buying it. Let the guessing games begin ! To drop 100 to 150 crores in one go and spend the maintenance costs yearly (just the landing gear bits cost 50 lakhs) requires serious financial firepower.

Dassault Falcon 8X comes to India-vtfcn.png

Dassault Falcon 8X comes to India-falcon8xdetails.png

Last edited by GTO : 4th December 2017 at 10:55. Reason: Uploading image as attachment
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Old 2nd December 2017, 23:54   #2
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Default Re: Dassault Falcon 8X comes to India

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Originally Posted by D33-PAC View Post
She's here, and she's gorgeous. If you thought the normal Dassault Falcon 7X was long - guess what. The 8X is 3.5 feet longer and she's the biggest, grandest private jet any big boy with a lot of $$$ can afford.
A quick search on FlightRadar24 says that this has been in India since 6th June 2017. The details regarding ownership etc are not available as yet.

Dassault Falcon 8X comes to India-screenshot_20171202235018.jpg
Please click on image for a clearer picture. This screenshot is after Oreo update so it's quite long.

Last edited by BoneCollector : 2nd December 2017 at 23:56.
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Old 3rd December 2017, 00:12   #3
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Default Re: Dassault Falcon 8X comes to India

A quick search on Google resulted in the below :

As per :

https://corporatejetinvestor.com/art...y-tracker-453/

16/02/2017 VT-FCN 410 Spectrum Aero

https://jetspectre.com/in-india-the-first-falcon-8-x/

Quote:
Dassault Aviation in the ongoing Indian Bangalore, Aero India exhibition 2017 officially confirmed the transfer of the first biznesdzheta Falcon 8 x Indian customer. We are talking about an airplane VTFCN (c/n 410) 2016 model year for a private client.
According to the Senior Vice President of the company, Carlos Branagh, the revival of economic growth in India is significantly stimulates the growth of business aviation. “Our client is a young Indian businessman new wave, which is slightly less than forty. He wants to catch everywhere and to stress its status.
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Old 4th December 2017, 16:51   #4
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Default Re: Dassault Falcon 8X comes to India

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Originally Posted by v12 View Post
A quick search on Google resulted in the below :

As per :

https://corporatejetinvestor.com/art...y-tracker-453/

16/02/2017 VT-FCN 410 Spectrum Aero
A google search says Spectrum Aero director and Religare Voyages director are the same.

Last edited by tud : 4th December 2017 at 16:53. Reason: Quoted a different post, corrected now.
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Old 4th December 2017, 18:15   #5
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Default Re: Dassault Falcon 8X comes to India

Hello,

I run the private jet division for a major Indian industrial house. This aircraft belongs to Spectrum Aero which is the holding company used for managing this aircraft. The ultimate beneficiaries shall ofcourse remain, confidential.

It's a splendid aircraft, seats 14 passengers and by virtue of having three engines, isn't limited by ETOPS.
We recently used it and flew on it, has a lovely fresh interior but the baggage capacity can't compete against a Legacy 650, let alone the other bad boys of the sky.
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Old 4th December 2017, 19:43   #6
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Default Re: Dassault Falcon 8X comes to India

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Originally Posted by Aviationshark View Post
Hello,


We recently used it and flew on it, has a lovely fresh interior but the baggage capacity can't compete against a Legacy 650, let alone the other bad boys of the sky.
Is baggage capacity that big of a deal ? I can't imagine someone choosing baggage capacity over intercontinental range ?

Please PM who the owners are if you know. Would love to know what the owner does for a living, maybe I should consider that !
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Old 4th December 2017, 19:50   #7
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Default Re: Dassault Falcon 8X comes to India

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Originally Posted by D33-PAC View Post
Is baggage capacity that big of a deal ? I can't imagine someone choosing baggage capacity over intercontinental range ?

Please PM who the owners are if you know. Would love to know what the owner does for a living, maybe I should consider that !
Can't PM, still a newbie on here.

Also you'd be surprised at how much of a role baggage capacity plays, especially when you go higher up the food chain, aircraft wise.

Aircrafts are usually bought mission specific. So someone flying to MENA (middle east & north Africa) would settle for an aircraft that can do around 6-7 hours of flying AKA Falcon 2000, Legacy 650, etc. But then the finer nuances come into play like after sales service, performance of the aircraft under special circumstances like hot runways, short runways, etc. Baggage capacity plays a role as Indian (and middle eastern clients) love to travel with a lot of baggage.

Ofcourse a factor that can't be overlooked is snob value. Some individuals prefer owning a Dassault or a Gulfstream over an Embraer.

Some people don't care about badges and want VFM.
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Old 4th December 2017, 20:54   #8
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Default Re: Dassault Falcon 8X comes to India

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Originally Posted by Aviationshark View Post
Can't PM, still a newbie on here.
But then the finer nuances come into play like after sales service,

Some people don't care about badges and want VFM.

One of the things that shocked me was that forget being able to afford one of these birds - the cost of owning and maintaining one would give a heart attack to the normal person.

Just the computer systems costs 2 crores, 50 lakhs for a landing gear assembly (one leg) - the list can keep going on for a Falcon 2000.

Do you have any insight into the kind of costs spent by the big industrial houses annually ?

My guess is Reliance Industries (MA's side) must be paying at least 15 crores yearly for all their planes - fuel costs, parts, etc.

And my eyes exploded looking at just the Falcon 2000's cost of maintenance. God knows how much the big birds like the Falcon 7Xs, 8Xs, Gulfstream G550/G650s will cost.
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Old 4th December 2017, 22:27   #9
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Default Re: Dassault Falcon 8X comes to India

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Originally Posted by tud View Post
A google search says Spectrum Aero director and Religare Voyages director are the same.
Another google search says that particular director is associated with the erstwhile owners of Ranbaxy Labs through Religare. Putting two and two together I would hazard a guess that the owners of this bird are the same. The profile of a young 40 something "new wave entrepreneur" fits the younger of the duo quite well. The flight plans posted also suggest that this plane is based in Delhi and flies frequently to the sites of their current hospital holdings. Any other guesses?
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Old 4th December 2017, 23:42   #10
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Default Re: Dassault Falcon 8X comes to India

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Originally Posted by D33-PAC View Post

Just the computer systems costs 2 crores, 50 lakhs for a landing gear assembly (one leg) - the list can keep going on for a Falcon 2000.
These major parts come up for overhaul only once every so many landings which in these biz jets runs into more than a few years - engine and landing gear overhaul are the two big jobs. They would cost for an aircraft like this in the Rs 2 to 4 crore range per overhaul. Rest of the parts get repaired or replaced in regular checks every so many 100s of hours of flying or elapse of time. The flight computers would be a lot more than Rs 2 crores. The avionics will run into several million $ procurement price.
Quote:
Do you have any insight into the kind of costs spent by the big industrial houses annually ?
The annual maintenance contract would for this aircraft be in the order of Rs 1 crore to 1.25 crore a year plus spare parts and extra jobs. So in the first 3 years of youthfulness the annual maintenance would be about Rs 2 crores a year all told. Flight insurance would be another $400k pa. Pilot salaries for 3 pilots about Rs 3 to 4 crores a year. A once in 6 year interior refurbishment would set you back Rs 3 crores in India or Rs 8 crores in Europe. All above numbers are indicative but directionally correct. After these numbers you will never complain about he A.S.S. of your car. Aviationshark could tell us more accurately. Now let me go off and buy an aircraft scale model.

Last edited by V.Narayan : 4th December 2017 at 23:46.
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Old 5th December 2017, 03:58   #11
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Default Re: Dassault Falcon 8X comes to India

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After these numbers you will never complain about he A.S.S. of your car.

Ha ! And that's for starters. Now add the airport parking charges and so on , I'd imagine a 10 to 15 crore budget annually for all the big houses like GMR, Tatas, Reliance, Jindal .


What I don't get is whether it really is worth it. If just the cost of maintenance is this much - then are they really traveling so much that even after all these costs it's cheaper for them to fly private than to have senior staff on commercial planes. Unless they have dozens of people traveling on a daily basis, I doubt a private jet is worth it.

Last edited by D33-PAC : 5th December 2017 at 03:59.
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Old 5th December 2017, 08:18   #12
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Default Re: Dassault Falcon 8X comes to India

A rough estimate is full annual operating costs of Rs 7 to 10 crores for a mid-sized biz jet and Rs 10 to Rs 15 crores for a large sized one.‎ Here I am assuming flying of about 60 to 70 hours a month. Most Indian biz jets outside Reliance & Taj Air (Tata) would not do much more than that per month. The experts from the industry could add a more accurate estimate.

Between 2006 to 2011 an inordinate number of business aircraft got procured by Indian industrial houses especially the family owned ones - Jindals, Punj Lloyd, ABG Shipping, Abhijeet (of coal scam fame), even loss makers like Hindustan Construction Co and such others. In USA the size of these businesses would not justify the spend‎ but back home it was party time. Interestingly Indian new age companies - Wipro, HCL etc never went down this path (or at least that is my information). At the Aditya Birla, Tata, Reliance size it is justified and a useful asset that can be used to save time & add convenience. For businesses one tier lower it makes sense only if your three plants are in remote areas. It is a factor of the zero's in your balance sheet. The way we wonder about the uber rich our drivers may wonder why we need two or three cars! Till then let's enjoy the beauty of these finely crafted machines.
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