Team-BHP - Days may be numbered for world’s largest passenger aircraft, the Airbus A380

So, Airbus can keep making the A380 and Emirates has large planes that can ferry people from multiple locations to Dubai.

Why was Emirates hesitating?

Between say a A380 and A330, what is difference between:
a) revenue per passenger
b) cost per passenger

From the airlines' perspective, especially large ones such as Emirates and to some extent Etihad and Lufthansa who have tremendous "hubs", would they prefer smaller or larger planes? Of course, utilization is what can change the equation drastically.

Day cannot begin with a better news. IMO we need more such big planes With emirates like hub and spoke model.

I was to fly to Dallas in first week of Jan and have to postpone my travel due to non availability of seats and insane pricing. A single A380 on route would have not only increased availability of seats but would have kept pricing as well in check IMO.

Air travel will only grow and given the heavy traffic, that;s only way to reduce the amount of planes in air.

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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar (Post 4341579)

And that is exactly what the airlines don't want to do. They reduce seats on certain routes to ensure higher per seat revenue. They will always want the demand-supply ratio skewed in their favour. The US operators are notorious for doing that. Smaller twin engine planes (now with a carbon fibre body) do help in reducing the per seat cost further.

I guess if Airbus can keep the A380 alive for 10 more years and if the demand picks up, we will see a new version of the 380 with more composite content and other steps to make it lighter and of course fit it with more fuel efficient engines. This is good news for the passengers for sure. Let there be more competition.

So when it comes to wide bodies the Airbus vs Boeing lineup will make for an interesting battle over the next decade

1) The A330 neo is smaller and cheaper and maybe less economical to operate than the 787. Right now the single aisle giants like the A321 and the 737Max-10 are dominating this sub 240 seat category. The single aisles are now doing transatlantic flights too. Will the "797" ever see the light of day?

2) The A350-900 is larger and more expensive than the 787-9 and about the same size as the 787-10.

3) The A350-1000 is about the same size and possibly cheaper than the 777-8X

4) The 777-9X and the future 777-10X are larger than the A350 as it stands today and will try to replace the capacity of the 747 and be a replacement for the retiring fleet of A380.

5) The 747-8 is practically dead as a passenger aircraft with only a handful of airlines operating it. I think only Lufthansa, Korean air and one of the chinese airlines are operating this aircraft.

6) The A380 continues to stand alone and if the demand picks up and if Airbus makes it more efficient then it becomes super interesting.

Smells a lot like American politics needling into EU. Nevertheless, I've travelled extensively in the A380 (BLR - SFO) and the business class is definitely a class apart. Worst of the lot has been the BA 747 business class - just their fitting isn't design well.

Regarding the cabin sound, I felt that the A380 was quieter. One thing I noticed is that the A380 always had a rough landing especially in SFO. Maybe it's the airport but I remember being completely out sleeping in the 777s the carrier used to operate before they replaced with the A380.

While some of us crib about these, I think about the Lufthansa flight back in late 90s which used to have a single tv screen in the middle of the section and everyone was forced to watch the darn thing. And it's 3-5-3 setup was equally aggravating. Glad we got over that in a hurry.

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Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 4342089)

While some of us crib about these, I think about the Lufthansa flight back in late 90s which used to have a single tv screen in the middle of the section and everyone was forced to watch the darn thing. . Glad we got over that in a hurry.

Well, some of us are old enough to remember no TV screens at all, so going to a single TV screen with stethoscope type ear plugs, that plugged into a little speaker under your seat was definitely a big step up. Then we got real electronic ear plugs, but still a single screen!

So I flew for at least a decade/ decade and a half these single TV screens. Even today you might still see them on old planes with certain carriers.

Jeroen

Like many members already pointed out, looking from an economy perspective it might not look that profitable flying an A380 with scanty passengers and half seats empty. But the inflight experience, stability and noiseless cabin makes the A380 close to none. And this is coming from a person who has tried A380, Boeing 787 dreamliner, Boeing 777 and A350. For me A380 will always have a special place in my heart. Although its a debatable topic and varies from person to person.

The relief over the Emirates order notwithstanding I would not write off the A380 so soon. Aircraft orders and their viability have a way of going through cycles difficult to predict. And today's ugly duckling can become the beautiful swan of tomorrow. Fuel prices, aviation pax-miles growth or decline, rapid changes in flying markets of the East, hubs getting choked to a technological and safety maximum and many other factors can change demand. Today the Boeing 737 is one of the two of the world's most flown and widely used passenger aircraft - 9864 produced, 14200 odd on order (including those built) and the first to cross (soon) a production run of 10,000. The latest MAX generation indicates it will be in production 10 to 15 years more having started its service life in 1967. In the first 10 years of its existence the Boeing 737 was the rump of the litter in Boeing's line up. By 1977 only 401 were sold in the first 10 years of service and Boeing were quite perplexed as to how to push sales. Its immediate rival the Douglas DC-9 meanwhile had sold 871 machines in roughly the same time frame. But changes in oil prices, improved versions of the 737, deregulation of the US aviation market, the emergence of ASEAN as a market all changed that in the 1980s. Similarly the Airbus A330 which today is a star performer had a poor run in the first 10 years selling only 251 between 1993 and 2002. Today the order book is scrapping 1500. I would say let's wait and see what turns in the next 3 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=NlIdzF1_b5M

Great video that sums up the big bets that Boeing and Airbus made, both seemingly reasonably using the information they had at the time. It's just that maybe with development times, Airbus got caught at the tail end of the Hub & Spoke model hey day, with Boeing getting their Dreamliner in the market just as the Point to Point market is just really taking off again.

I'm a bit sad that I never got to fly a 747, especially now that it looks increasingly likely I ever will again. I'm a bit ambivalent about the A380 experience. Sure it's super roomy in terms of the cabin height at least, but I feel that once the 787 came out and cabin design took a marked change wrt overhead bin design all newer interiors seem to liberate a lot more headspace. For me headspace is far more important than legroom for the most part, thought that may be my claustrophobia. I think quieter engines would be the thing that I'd personally seek the most as a passenger, I don't miss the overwhelming drone of older jets.

I wonder where Airbus will go from here, sure the recent 36 jet order is a fillip but it's a band aid for that production line. I guess they must be going all out for their Neo line of updated wide body airliners.

https://jalopnik.com/the-worlds-bigg...dea-1822098940

Some interesting comments in the Jalop link above that talk about how unlike the 747 Airbus can't even find relief for the A380 as a cargo hauler. I guess the true genius of the Jumbo jet was it's parallel usage design from the off.

OT: To add my thoughts on the Heathrow vs Gatwick debate - Heathrow anyday. Dreary dingy old Gatwick's only saving grace is that it isn't as shockingly awful as the glorified warehouse that is Stanstead. Gatwick might have the Gatwick express to take you into town but it's just too far away. Nowhere close to the convenience of hopping on the Picadilly line for a 40minute jaunt into Zone 2/3.

Airbus A380 seems to be in the news again. Wonder why the perennially congested routes in India cannot use this massive aircraft. Sad to know that a couple of A380's are being scrapped for spares due to lack of buyers.

Source

Article :

Quote:

The Airbus A380 entered service in 2008 with great fanfare. A decade later, the arrival of an Airbus Superjumbo remains an event to behold.

But, the A380 has not been the game-changer Airbus had hoped it would become when it conceived the massive double-decker. This is especially the case on the financial front.

For much of its service life, Airbus has struggled to find airlines willing to put the A380 into service. And now aircraft leasing companies are facing the same struggles. In fact, the market for second hand, off-lease A380s is virtually non-existent.
On Tuesday, Dr. Peters Group announced that two of its Airbus A380s will be stripped down and sold for spare parts after the company failed to find any takers for its second-hand superjumbos.

"The market for the A380-800 aircraft type has not developed positively in recent years," Dr. Peters Group CEO Anselm Gehling said in a statement. "Some airlines have canceled orders from Airbus, while others have opted for smaller long-haul jets."

The German investment firm expects the two ex-Singapore Airlines planes to generate $80 million of income each.

The depreciation is fairly jarring when you consider that a new A380 carried a $300 million price tag back in 2007 when these planes were built. While a new A380 today has a list price of $445.6 million.

According to Reuters, the $40 million it costs to refurbish a used A380's interior is a major turn off for many in the market for a second-hand superjumbo.

The two soon-to-be-disassembled planes are believed to be the third and fifth A380s ever built. A third ex-Singapore A380 did find a new a home. The sixth A380s built will enter into service with Portuguese charter airline Hi-Fly this summer.

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami (Post 4411347)

It is sad, Due to its size the A380 is quite limited in the number of airfields it can use. Also, these huge planes are rarely used for domestic, short haul, flights. It’s simply not economical.

My favourite plane, the 747, still soldiers on and is still being build, albeit be it freight version:

It is sad. Airbus took a big gamble at the time and the world did not evolve as they thought.

My favourite airliner, 747, is still doing relatively well, albeit being it in freight version:

http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/01/news...ups/index.html

Whether it is the A380 or the 747, everything on these planes is massive and huge. If you ever find yourself in Seattle, do visit the Boeing factories at Everett. I did earlier this year and it is just mind blowing, the scale of everything is just beyond belief.

Jeroen