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Old 17th February 2019, 15:01   #91
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Default Re: Days may be numbered for world’s largest passenger aircraft, the Airbus A380

I agree about the emerging need of bigger capacity aircraft servicing high density routes in the coming years. However it will not be the A380. Four engines burning to carry 600 passengers from say Mumbai to Delhi cannot justify the ticket prices. Most likely the existing A320/21 and 737/max will get replaced by a economic A330 neo for example. Intercontinental routes too are nicely served by 400 seater twins, which may get upgraded to 500 seater twins with higher bypass ratio turbofan engines. Most likely the smallest airplanes like Atr/dash 400 and the biggest super Jumbo's will get axed for medium capacity airplanes as airports keep getting bigger.
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Old 17th February 2019, 16:31   #92
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Default Re: Days may be numbered for world’s largest passenger aircraft, the Airbus A380

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Most likely the existing A320/21 and 737/max will get replaced by a economic A330 neo for example. Intercontinental routes too are nicely served by 400 seater twins, which may get upgraded to 500 seater twins with higher bypass ratio turbofan engines.
I concur with your assessment that tomorrow's 500 or even 600 seaters will be twins with ever more powerful engines. Four pods like the nostalgic 4-engined pistons are probably gone forever. :-(
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Most likely the smallest airplanes like ATR/Dash 400 will get axed for medium capacity airplanes as airports keep getting bigger.
Here I have a different point of view as many locations in Tier III, Tier IV and Tier V categories will always need 20 to 60 seaters for some of their routes. But I do think the 70 to 90 seaters like Embraer are the next big thing already unfolding and through multi-hops will eat into some of the ATR size market.
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Old 17th February 2019, 19:22   #93
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Default Re: Days may be numbered for world’s largest passenger aircraft, the Airbus A380

Regarding ATR and smaller aircraft, in India, they are already getting replaced. Most of our smaller airfields (6000 feet strips) are serviced by A320/737. These runways are marginal at best for narrow bodied jets, but airlines see economy in using them rather than turbo props due extremely high passenger loads. Prime example are Patna, Jammu, Dibrugarh, Hubli etc. Once loads increase, mostof these strips will get extended to mnimum 9000 feet or do and with apron expansion, will cater to say a A330. ATR makes great sense in Europe where population density is less, with India's growth we really need bigger aircraft.
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Old 16th March 2019, 12:17   #94
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Default Re: Days may be numbered for world’s largest passenger aircraft, the Airbus A380

I wonder why airline companies in India don't consider smaller firms like Embraer and Bombardier. Given the vast network of underdeveloped, smaller airports across India - wouldn't it make more sense to get jets with capacities of upto 120 passengers and connect these cities. Recently I read that a new airport has opened in Northern Kerala with easy access to Coorg - only about 2.5-3 hours drives as opposed to driving there from Mangalore or Bangalore. I enjoy heading there from Bombay but much to my dismay - the only flight landing from Bombay to the new airport was at 2 am or some such. It's not as if that airport would be hyper active. Why bother if only one flight from Bombay and that too a red eye flight?
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Old 16th March 2019, 13:39   #95
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Default Re: Days may be numbered for world’s largest passenger aircraft, the Airbus A380

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It's not as if that airport would be hyper active. Why bother if only one flight from Bombay and that too a red eye flight?

I believe you are alluding to the Kannur airport. The airport is only getting up and running and with the large catchment area and the large NRI population of northern Kerala, it is only a matter of time before the airport becomes hyper-active.
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Old 16th March 2019, 18:44   #96
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Default Re: Days may be numbered for world’s largest passenger aircraft, the Airbus A380

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Originally Posted by LPT2625 View Post
What prevents our home-grown low-cost operator Indigo from inducting A380s in their fleet? If my understanding is correct, the A380 in an all-economy configuration can seat up to 800 passengers. This aircraft is the best choice for connecting our major hubs viz. Mumbai, Delhi, Bengaluru, Hyderabad, Kolkata and Chennai.

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The A380 has the largest business class of all airliners. The whole top floor is business so economy passengers will not come across the business section. In fact the entry is also by a separate aerobridge directly from the business class lounge
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Old 17th March 2019, 12:32   #97
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The A380 has the largest business class of all airliners. The whole top floor is business so economy passengers will not come across the business section. In fact the entry is also by a separate aerobridge directly from the business class lounge

At airport such as Frankfurt, if you are flying Lufthansa on this beast, you walk straight from the business class lounge into the business class aerobridge into your business class seat. You never ever need to mingle or even see the coach/economic riff raff.

Lufthansa has also a first class section at the front which is absolutely superior to anything I have ever seen / flown.

Of course, how a carrier configures the suits is up to them, so there might well me A380s out there that use the upper deck, partly, for economy as well

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Old 17th March 2019, 14:35   #98
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Default Re: Days may be numbered for world’s largest passenger aircraft, the Airbus A380

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Lufthansa has also a first class section at the front which is absolutely superior to anything I have ever seen / flown.
Etihad have "The Residence" above the first class. It has a living room, a bedroom and an ensuite bathroom. Unfortunately only one in each A380.
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Old 17th March 2019, 18:48   #99
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Default Re: Days may be numbered for world’s largest passenger aircraft, the Airbus A380

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Of course, how a carrier configures the suits is up to them, so there might well me A380s out there that use the upper deck, partly, for economy as well
Yes, if I remember correctly, Singapore Airlines have Economy class seats partially on the upper deck.
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Old 17th March 2019, 19:47   #100
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Default Re: Days may be numbered for world’s largest passenger aircraft, the Airbus A380

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Originally Posted by LPT2625 View Post
What prevents our home-grown low-cost operator Indigo from inducting A380s in their fleet? If my understanding is correct, the A380 in an all-economy configuration can seat up to 800 passengers. This aircraft is the best choice for connecting our major hubs viz. Mumbai, Delhi, Bengaluru, Hyderabad, Kolkata and Chennai.
Your assessment is correct that at least two or three sectors are getting over crowded and could benefit with a larger aircraft than our staple A320 and B737. But carriers especially in a high tax - volatile margins market like India prefer a single type fleet for some serious cost reasons. Every new type you add to a airline's fleet is effectively like adding the cost structure of a new airline under your balance sheet. You have to have a separate crew, separate maintenance engineers, separate inventory to hold & manage, a new engine support programme, and so on. Which is why Indigo for the longest time stayed with the A320 only. At some point the sky over Delhi and Mumbai will get crowded enough for DGCA to require larger capacity aircraft for some sectors such as BOM-DEL, BOM-BLR, DEL-BLR. The A380 is not a short cycle frequent takeoff & landings type of aircraft. It is designed for longer hops and the structure would start developing weaknesses in the form of hairline cracks at some point. The A330 maybe a better bet. The large capacity short hopper like the A300 or B747SR unfortunately are not on offer today.
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Old 18th March 2019, 08:54   #101
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Default Re: Days may be numbered for world’s largest passenger aircraft, the Airbus A380

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
At some point the sky over Delhi and Mumbai will get crowded enough for DGCA to require larger capacity aircraft for some sectors such as BOM-DEL, BOM-BLR, DEL-BLR.
Mr. Narayan,

Since you are from the industry itself, how is/was the experience of Jet & AI in flying their A330, B747-400 & B787 on the domestic metro routes? I always hoped to be able to fly them (especially the 747) within India but never had the luck!

https://livefromalounge.boardingarea...estic-flights/

https://www.livemint.com/Companies/N...estic-rou.html
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Old 18th March 2019, 09:44   #102
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Default Re: Days may be numbered for world’s largest passenger aircraft, the Airbus A380

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Mr. Narayan, Since you are from the industry itself, how is/was the experience of Jet & AI in flying their A330, B747-400 & B787 on the domestic metro routes? I always hoped to be able to fly them (especially the 747) within India but never had the luck!
To best of my knowledge these are the domestic legs of a longer international flight with the first and last sector within India so that passengers at a smaller station can benefit from a direct (though not non-stop) international route. These flights therefore try and attract domestic only passengers to augment revenues a bit. Some times these first and last legs are at odd hours. I do not know about the cabin service as I've never flown on these Air India flights. A small correction - I was from the industry. Now I am a grey eagle.
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Old 18th March 2019, 09:54   #103
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Default Re: Days may be numbered for world’s largest passenger aircraft, the Airbus A380

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To best of my knowledge these are the domestic legs of a longer international flight with the first and last sector within India so that passengers at a smaller station can benefit from a direct (though not non-stop) international route.

A small correction - I was from the industry. Now I am a grey eagle.
Thank you for the quick response. I believe SOME maybe the terminating domestic leg but not all. This was from the 2018 Q3 busy season - unsure if they are still flying these now.
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Old 18th March 2019, 13:36   #104
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Default Re: Days may be numbered for world’s largest passenger aircraft, the Airbus A380

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Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
Since you are from the industry itself, how is/was the experience of Jet & AI in flying their A330, B747-400 & B787 on the domestic metro routes? I always hoped to be able to fly them (especially the 747) within India but never had the luck!
Ah ... reminds me of an instance of 2017.


I had to take a Mumbai to Delhi flight in the evening.
Out of all the options available I chose Air India taking off quite early in the evening (about 6 pm) because *drum rolls* it was a 777!

A Boeing 777 on the domestic leg - I fell for it hook line and sinker - the comfort factor. It was a part of international flight to New York. However, unfortunately, destiny had some other plans for me.

We boarded, I was quite happy with the enormous room that I had all to myself and looking forward to a much smoother flight; there were some delays ... and the crew kept us waiting, finally revealing that the Cap'n cannot adjust his seat: his seat belt had slipped into the rail and now the seat is stuck.

The plane took off in the wee hours of 3-4 am after the seat/assembly got replaced with a spare from ground.
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Old 18th March 2019, 14:44   #105
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Default Re: Days may be numbered for world’s largest passenger aircraft, the Airbus A380

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I believe SOME maybe the terminating domestic leg but not all.
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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
Some times these first and last legs are at odd hours. I do not know about the cabin service as I've never flown on these Air India flights.
I did a Delhi - Kochi - Delhi in a 787 Dreamliner last April and it was a wonderful experience. After that my family members traveled few more times and latest by February 2019.

The timings are very convenient to save a day. Delhi to Kochi 5:10 am departure and Kochi to Delhi 8:15 pm departure.
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