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Old 29th August 2019, 12:39   #46
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Holy manure!

That was thriller to read PGA... Only it's real life. Send shivers down the spine.

Question is it not true that the light colour for runway and taxiway are different?
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Old 1st September 2019, 22:13   #47
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1 September 1983, Flight KAL 007: On this day Lieutenant Colonel Gennadiy Osipovich of the V-PVO, (Soviet Air Defence Forces) flying a Sukhoi Su-15TM interceptor, fired two R-98MR air-to-air missiles at a Korean Air Lines Boeing 747 which had just flown over Soviet territory without authorization at an altitude of 35,000 feet (10,668 meters). Both missiles’ 40 kilogramme warheads were detonated by proximity fuses 40 to 45 meters behind the airliner’s engines and the blast fragmentation shrapnel caused severe damage. Over the next twelve minutes, the 747 spiraled downward until it crashed into the Sea of Japan. All 269 persons on board were killed.

The airliner, KAL Flight 007, had departed Anchorage International Airport en route to Seoul, Republic of Korea. After leaving Anchorage airspace, the airplane, a 12-year-old Boeing 747-200B, continuously deviated to the north of its planned course. The airliner entered Soviet airspace, crossed over the Kamchatka Peninsula, and then flew over Sakhalin Island. These incursions lasted for several tens of minutes - which in itself is a surprising piece of navigation. Based on these two airspace incursions, the Soviet military chain of command specifically ordered Lieutenant Colonel Osipovich to shoot down the airliner, even though by that time it had just crossed Soviet airspace and was over the Sea of Japan.

At that time in 1983 USSR claimed that a US Air Force spy plane based on the Boeing 707 was snooping around in that region very close to the flight path of the ill-fated South Korean Boeing 747. And they thought they had shot down that spy plane. Their claim was not unreasonable given that the USAF routinely flew these spy planes near Shakhalin island & Kamchatka peninsula where USSR used to conduct its nuclear tests.

Lesser known today is that Korean Airline pilots often made navigation botch ups in those days.

Photo below of the Su-15 carrying the heavy R-98 missiles
Photo Source: Wikipedia

September 1st 1974 On a happier note an SR-71 flown by Major James V. Sullivan, USAF, Pilot and Major Noel F. Widdifield, USAF, Reconnaissance Systems Officer, set a Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI) World Record for Speed Over A Known Course when they flew a Lockheed SR-71 from New York to London in 1 hour, 54 minutes, 56.4 seconds. They averaged 2,908.026 kilometers per hour (1,806.964 miles per hour). :-)
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Last edited by V.Narayan : 1st September 2019 at 22:20.
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Old 7th September 2019, 22:59   #48
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September 6th, 1965:: IAF Dassault Mystere shoots down PAF Starfighter F-104

54 years ago on this day Squadron Leader AB Devayya flying a transonic Dassault Mystere IV shot down a Mach 2.0 Pakistani Lockheed Starfighter F-104 flown by Flight Lieutenant Amjad Hussain. Devayya was posthumously awarded the MVC. In a classic case his MVC came a quarter century later after research proved, by checking records on both sides, what he had achieved.

Read the full story…
https://theprint.in/defence/on-this-...er-jet/281124/

Another reminder that it is the man behind the machine that counts. Photo Squadron Leader AB Devayya and his MVC

The Dassault Mystere IV below. Note the clean lines, swept wings for transonic flight and simple unguided weapons - iron bombs, rockets and 30mm cannon shells. It was powered by a Hispano Suiza 3500 kgf turbojet that took it to a little over 600 knots (Mach 0.91) at sea level.

PAF Starfighter. In 1965 this was the most advanced and fastest fighter on either side in full squadron service.

Photo Source: The Print
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Last edited by V.Narayan : 7th September 2019 at 23:04.
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Old 8th September 2019, 11:43   #49
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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
September 6th, 1965:: IAF Dassault Mystere shoots down PAF Starfighter F-104
It was a very brave thing of Sqdn Ldr "Tubby" Devayya to engage a vastly superior F-104A and his actions probably saved his squadron mates.

It is widely believed that Sqdn Ldr Devayya 's damaged Mystere became uncontrollable after shooting down Amjad Khan's F-104A. Whether it was caused after he flew though the debris of the doomed F-104A or if the wounds he sustained when Amjad Khan fired his cannon at his Mystere, took its toll on him, Or if he died during an unsuccessful ejection at low level, no one will ever know. But as it was reported that his body was found well clear of his Mystere's wreckage, chances are he may have tried ejecting from his Mystere. THe Mystere's ejection seat did not have the zero-zero capability of the Hunter's Martin Baker Ejection seat; and at low level, the seat's chite would have failed to deploy. There as there was a shortage of drop tanks, was also an order issued to IAF fighter pilots, not to jettison their drop tanks unless they were close to getting a kill or were in immediate danger of being shot down. It is also not known if Sqdn Ldr Devayya jettisoned his drop tanks before or while engaging the F-104A.

Indian Aviation: A Photo Essay-img00090.jpg

Wg Cdr O P Taneja, CO of No. 1 Squadron after landing at base reported that he had a Mystere(Devayya's) following on his tail. He had seen a flash of a missile hitting the ground, then there was a undecipherable radio call from that trailing Mystere before contact was lost. Sqdn Ldr Devayya's Mystere was on reserve that day. He only got airborne after one Mystere from the first strike formation developed a malfunction enroute. He tagged along another Mystere formation that was tasked with attacking the Sargodha complex. I guess he was destined to perform this supreme act of bravery that day.

Last edited by skanchan95 : 8th September 2019 at 11:48.
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Old 8th September 2019, 21:21   #50
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Slightly but not entirely off topic.

Anyone interested about the old Imperial Airways air route from England to Australia should get hold of the 1987 work "Beyond the Blue Horizon" by Alexander Frater. I believe copies are still available through Amazon.

Frater is more famous in India for his best selling "Chasing the Monsoon". However in the Imperial Airways book he tells its history in an interesting way by recreating the old journey using modern day air services in 1982.

There is an extensive interview with JRD Tata in the book and the way he describes the challenges of flying Indian Airlines in the nationalisation period of 1980s is indeed a treat to read.


Worth a buy for anyone interested in Civil Aviation history.
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Old 24th September 2019, 19:55   #51
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Originally Posted by ads11 View Post
On the topic of the Mercure, here is a lovely little video by a very stylish Youtube channel.
Sorry to pick up an old thread, since I am just going thru the paces as a contributing member, couldn't resist adding a couple of more "what-ifs" for the aviation fans, both from the 60s:

i) British TSR-2 Fighter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAC_TSR-2

ii) North American XB-70 Valkyrie Mach-3 bomber, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_...XB-70_Valkyrie

Last edited by ampere : 27th September 2019 at 10:06. Reason: removed video link from quoted post
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Old 27th September 2019, 06:29   #52
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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
SEEDS OF THE IAF AND LEARNING TO BUILD AIRCRAFTS
The long road.....


A few photographs marking the journey of our aircraft building programmes and the early years of the IAF. I am not covering the full history of the IAF as that deserves a thread of its own and I have to sift through over 300 old photos to build that story. It is a story worth narrating......The successes and the enlightened leadership of that time is yet to return. Hopefully progress with the Rudra attack helicopter and Tejas fighter will change that in the next year or two.
Jai Hind....
What a splendid, thought provoking thread Narayan! Going through it one gets lost in a reverie - Durba Banerjee,
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Old 27th September 2019, 10:37   #53
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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
SEEDS OF THE IAF AND LEARNING TO BUILD AIRCRAFTS
The long road.....


A few photographs marking the journey of our aircraft building programmes and the early years of the IAF. I am not covering the full history of the IAF as that deserves a thread of its own and I have to sift through over 300 old photos to build that story. It is a story worth narrating......The successes and the enlightened leadership of that time is yet to return. Hopefully progress with the Rudra attack helicopter and Tejas fighter will change that in the next year or two.
Jai Hind....
What a splendid, thought provoking thread Narayan! Going through it one gets lost in a reverie - Durba Banerjee, Gr. Capt. Suranjan Das, Dr. Kurt Tank....
All names that are part of nostalgia. I remember as schoolboys hotly debating the induction of Dr. Tank into HAL (it was in the mid-60's if I remember correctly) & arguing how a veteran of the Axis powers could work in India! Idiots that we were, the Gestapo, the SS and the Nazi Party were all the same to us – it would be a while before I would realize that scientists/engineers could be a breed apart from power politics.

Durba Banerjee again forms part of the nostalgia thread. She was piloting our Indian Airlines flight from Kolkata to Vizag in ’75 (it was a Caravelle if I remember) and due to a snag, an emergency landing at Vizag was made – a failure in brake hydraulic pressure, we were told later – using emergency brakes. There was no mishap apart from a slight slewing of the plane on the tarmac after landing. Yes I know - I have attracted near-misses a few times in life.

Kudos to you for your vast & in-depth knowledge of the subject. I always look forward to your posts on the subject of planes & aviation. Keep them coming.
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Old 27th September 2019, 13:32   #54
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Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
... couldn't resist adding a couple of more "what-ifs" for the aviation fans, both from the 60s:

i) British TSR-2 Fighter
Interesting you bring up the British TSR-2. Today, 27th September is the 55th anniversary of the TSR-2s first flight. Sadly only one of the prototypes ever flew and the programme got sacrificed. It represented a confluence of several universal forces - the proud capabilities of the British aeronautical industry, the declining geo-political position of the UK itself and the British desire to be on top and go it alone without the budgets to match. If the UK Govt had funded the programme it is quite likely that the TSR-2 would have been a success. The other two British programmes of equal greatness that ran in parallel were the V/STOL Harrier and the Concorde. There was no dearth of technical capability what the British lacked was political will.

For those not familiar the TSR-2 was a British nuclear and conventional strike design with additional recce capability stitched in. It was meant to fly lo-lo-lo with inertial navigation, terrain following radar, ECM jammers, moving map displays and 1960 technology aiming devices. For the late 1950s and early 1960s this was at the edge of technology still being dreamt of. The Americans tried their hand at it through the F-111 and finally succeeded with an enormous expenditure of time, money and research. The TSR-2 was supposed to be capable of delivering a nuclear bomb 1900 kms out flying hi-lo-lo-hi while being able to clock Mach 1.1 at sea level or Mach 2.0 at 36,000 feet. Some photos for your viewing pleasure.


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What a splendid, thought provoking thread Narayan! Kudos to you for your vast & in-depth knowledge of the subject. I always look forward to your posts on the subject of planes & aviation. Keep them coming.
Thank you Shashanka. I adore aircrafts. Glad to share what I know. 'in-depth & vast' are only relative :-)
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Old 27th September 2019, 14:17   #55
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The glamour of the jet bombers is attributed to the strategic big guys like the B52, B1/ B2, TU -23/160/ TU-95 or the British V Jets, but there was lot of action in the late 50s around medium size planes like the TSR-2, Mirage -IV, Convair B58 Hustler, F111 .
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Old 27th September 2019, 16:53   #56
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Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
The glamour of the jet bombers is attributed to the strategic big guys like the B52, B1/ B2, TU -23/160/ TU-95 or the British V Jets, but there was lot of action in the late 50s around medium size planes like the TSR-2, Mirage -IV, Convair B58 Hustler, F111 .
I think you also need to keep in mind that this was the era of the Bomber Mafia everywhere, most especially with Curtis LeMay at the USAF and I'm sure plenty of equivalents from Bomber Command being the real power players across the pond too. How else do you explain schemes like Operation Chrome Dome?!

As soon as you started to see the big ego's and names of the strategic bomber era start to retire, you inevitably started seeing in the Pentagon and elsewhere a trend where the fighter mafia started to take hold as we approached the 80s for example.

I'm willing to bet in 20 years time, there will be big names at the top of Air Force command structures who might've cut their teeth in UAVs and drones for example and they'll be the ones with the sway in their respective domains. It's probably ever so slightly already happening now, albeit slowly, because the endangered species that is a fighter pilot wouldn't like to concede their power. I wonder if it's healthier for air forces as a whole if their leadership brass perhaps were derived from their logistics fleets or other elements of fixed wing or even rotary, maybe you'll have a less fighter centric or even myopic view of the air combat domain looking forward.
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Old 27th September 2019, 17:18   #57
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I think you also need to keep in mind that this was the era of the Bomber Mafia everywhere, most especially with Curtis LeMay at the USAF and I'm sure plenty of equivalents from Bomber Command being the real power players across the pond too. How else do you explain schemes like Operation Chrome Dome?!

As soon as you started to see the big ego's and names of the strategic bomber era start to retire, you inevitably started seeing in the Pentagon and elsewhere a trend where the fighter mafia started to take hold as we approached the 80s for example.

I'm willing to bet in 20 years time, there will be big names at the top of Air Force command structures who might've cut their teeth in UAVs and drones for example and they'll be the ones with the sway in their respective domains. It's probably ever so slightly already happening now, albeit slowly, because the endangered species that is a fighter pilot wouldn't like to concede their power. I wonder if it's healthier for air forces as a whole if their leadership brass perhaps were derived from their logistics fleets or other elements of fixed wing or even rotary, maybe you'll have a less fighter centric or even myopic view of the air combat domain looking forward.
After your post, I am even more eager to watch TopGun - Maverick
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Old 29th September 2019, 20:52   #58
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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post

For those not familiar the TSR-2 was a British nuclear and conventional strike design with additional recce capability stitched in. It was meant to fly lo-lo-lo with inertial navigation, terrain following radar, ECM jammers, moving map displays and 1960 technology aiming devices. Some photos for your viewing pleasure.
Thank you Sir, for the great posts on aircrafts. I must say I have read most of your posts with great interest. The information about this TSR-2 is something new I have learnt of. I am curious about its wing design with the tips curved down. I have normally seen many aircrafts wing tips curved upwards. I am sure there must be a reason why this plane has its curved downwards, Could you enlighten us?.
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Old 29th September 2019, 21:59   #59
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Thank you, for the great posts on aircrafts. I must say I have read most of your posts with great interest. The information about this TSR-2 is something new I have learnt of.
Thank you for reading. I am glad the posts were of use to you.
Quote:
I am curious about its wing design with the tips curved down. I have normally seen many aircrafts wing tips curved upwards. I am sure there must be a reason why this plane has its curved downwards, Could you enlighten us?.
Let me try and give a straight answer to summarize a very complex explanation. First I must confess I have not read a lot about the TSR-2. The last time I read in detail was in the mid-1970s in some magazine purchased second hand from Flora Fountain. Also I am no expert in aerodynamics so I may be constrained if your questions get deeper. So bear with me.

First the short answer - these downward folded and fairly large wingtips served three purposes - (1) they through a long process reduced the gust response of the aircraft when flying above Mach 0.85 at less than 300 meters above the ground. The need for strike aircraft to fly lo-lo-lo at high speeds causes the aircraft to not fly smooth but in bumps of several G's. These bumps come at intervals of 2 or 3 seconds causing the pilot to actually lose vision. Think of a series of hundreds of speed breakers 5 meters apart over which you must drive your car at 100 kmph. It is bone and nerve jarring. How it does that I can try and explain but it will be a long one covering aspect ratios, virtual wing span versus actual and a few more I probably don't know enough of. (2) a downward curved wingtip aids turning as opposed to an upward curve one which resists the direction you want to turn. It matters a lot less in an airliner and a lot more in a fast jet (3) In some way this wing tip aided the low speed control of the TSR-2 bequeathed as it was with a small thin wing not friendly to slow speeds. That I assumed helped in lower landing speeds. Exactly how this worked I never researched.

Wingtips in general or even wing tip fuel tanks smoothen out the very powerful horizontal tornado like vortices that go spinning back from a wing tip. This smoothening out reduces drag. Theoretically curved up or down should not matter much. Also a curved wing tip is in part like having a longer wingspan - a little more lift. Downward curved wingtips were only seen in the Heinkel He162 WW-II Luftwaffe jet and are seen in big drones these days.
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Old 29th September 2019, 22:27   #60
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Downward curved wingtips were only seen in the Heinkel He162 WW-II Luftwaffe jet and are seen in big drones these days.
Since we were discussing it just a few days back - the Valkyrie. Movable though.

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 29th September 2019 at 22:29.
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