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Old 1st October 2019, 02:37   #61
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The TSR-2 was an amazing aircraft. Till date there is a bit of an urban myth going around it. Rumour has it the Americans put pressure on the British Government to scrap the program in favour of the F111.

Very unlikely to be true, there were many other reasons. What is true is that very little is left, just about anything to do with the TSR-2 was destroyed.

You can still see a complete TSR-2 in my favourite museum; Duxford Imperial war museum. I went through my photographs, I am pretty sure I have a few more shots, but could only find this one.

Indian Aviation: A Photo Essay-pc280278.jpg

A beat up cockpit section is left at Brooklands. I took this image in 2016, not sure what is left. It was out in the open, not the best environment for such an old relic.

Indian Aviation: A Photo Essay-p9172273.jpg

That is about all what is left of this amazing plane. There are a couple of very good books about the TSR-2.

And since we are discussing bombers, me at the controls of a B52

Indian Aviation: A Photo Essay-img_1684.jpg

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 1st October 2019 at 02:46.
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Old 1st October 2019, 03:08   #62
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Default Re: Indian Aviation: A Photo Essay

(Possibly off-topic)
Does anyone know if kit planes have ever been assembled and flown privately in India?

I found one instance/attempt in the recent years but it looks like the story went nowhere.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-41813389

I don't see why there isn't a small kitplane industry in India. I'm sure there are enough takers for that. For the cost of a luxury sports car (that is restricted to poor road conditions and relatively low speed-limits), one could buy and assemble a sound, properly engineered and certified (by the FAA) kit plane that could provide the most exhilaration legally possible for a civilian.

How can you resist a classic looking 1000hp plane with modern amenities that does 350+ mph?
source: https://www.kitplanes.com/turbine-legend/

Indian Aviation: A Photo Essay-turbinelegend_0919_03.jpg

Indian Aviation: A Photo Essay-turbinelegend_0919_19.jpg

Last edited by aah78 : 8th November 2019 at 18:40. Reason: Pictures inserted in-line.
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Old 2nd October 2019, 11:53   #63
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Default Re: Indian Aviation: A Photo Essay

https://m.economictimes.com/news/pol...rom%20%251%24s

HAL employees to go on strike.

Really! Where did the link of productivity and output to wages go. The Armed Forces & Coast Guard still their primary and almost only customer 75 years on may have some views on their value add and support as a vendor.

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(Possibly off-topic)
Does anyone know if kit planes have ever been assembled and flown privately in India?
Any flying machine will need DGCA air worthiness approvals. The DGCA is not as enlightened as say Western civil aviation authorities in both technical competence as well as liberal attitudes. Their approach is still contaminated by 1950s style thinking that the role of the bureaucrat is to deny & demand. While other Govt departments have actually moved ahead in their thinking, attitudes and digitization the DGCA, sadly, remains, in my opinion, one of the most backward of the major central Govt departments. I don't see them evolving in attitudes or abilities to grant hobbyists air worthiness certificates.
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Old 3rd October 2019, 04:14   #64
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Hmm if what you're claiming is true, I guess no forward-thinking developments will take place in private aviation unless some rich folk lobby for it. Too bad. Anyone know any adrenaline junkie crorepatis?
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Old 4th October 2019, 10:37   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post

Any flying machine will need DGCA air worthiness approvals. The DGCA is not as enlightened as say Western civil aviation authorities in both technical competence as well as liberal attitudes. Their approach is still contaminated by 1950s style thinking that the role of the bureaucrat is to deny & demand. While other Govt departments have actually moved ahead in their thinking, attitudes and digitization the DGCA, sadly, remains, in my opinion, one of the most backward of the major central Govt departments. I don't see them evolving in attitudes or abilities to grant hobbyists air worthiness certificates.
There could be exceptions to this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.econo...w/62986949.cms




Ouote from the news article

The aircraft, that was assembled on the terrace of a Charkop building, got the certificate of registration from the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) last year.

Regards,

Last edited by Anwesh : 4th October 2019 at 10:47.
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Old 4th October 2019, 12:51   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anwesh View Post
T
The aircraft, that was assembled on the terrace of a Charkop building, got the certificate of registration from the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) last year.

,
I seem to recall this coming up in a thread here on TeamBHP as well.
If you check their website it says:

Quote:
Capt. Amol eagerly awaits for the clearance of all the registration and airworthiness norms.
http://www.thrustaircraft.com

There is a huge difference between registration and airworthiness.
I do not think he is setting this up as a kit aircraft. He is likely to follow whatever the norms are for commercial aircraft of this size. (I assume some sort of General Aviation regime)

A few countries around the world over the possibility of kit aircraft. In essence you as an amateur can build your own plane. It will be classified as an experimental aircraft.

Which also means that the use of these kit planes is very restricted.

Especially in the USA, lots of kit planes about. In fact, the by far largest airshow in the world, Air Ventura at Oshkosh, is hosted by the International Experimental Aircraft Association. https://www.eaa.org/eaa

I know there are quite a few kit planes out in the UK as well and I believe Australia and New Zealand.
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Old 4th October 2019, 18:11   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
[url] The DGCA is not as enlightened as say Western civil aviation authorities in both technical competence as well as liberal attitudes. Their approach is still contaminated by 1950s style thinking that the role of the bureaucrat is to deny & demand. While other Govt departments have actually moved ahead in their thinking, attitudes and digitization the DGCA, sadly, remains, in my opinion, one of the most backward of the major central Govt departments. I don't see them evolving in attitudes or abilities to grant hobbyists air worthiness certificates.
This is, sadly, so very true. The role of the hobbyist is often underestimated in the economy. Entrepreneurship and innovation are both driven by people who start off as hobbyists but the fear of babudom and bureaucracy kills success more than failure does. Most govt. departments see themselves as regulators and controllers rather than enablers.

General aviation has so much potential in India and with it's demographics and geography would be such an ideal hobby and economic ecosystem to build.

Regards,
Sting
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Old 4th October 2019, 18:19   #68
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Though I agree with what is being said about our bureaucracy, when it comes to home built/ kit planes, given our love for juggadry, I think it is better to play safe.

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Old 4th November 2019, 15:05   #69
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Some nostalgic photos of the Vickers Viking in Indian service. It was the first new aircraft to enter service with Indian civil aviation, in 1947, after World War II as opposed to second hand WW-II Dakotas which abounded. It was used by Air India and Indian National Airways. After the 1953 nationalization of Air India and creation of the domestic/regional carrier Indian Airlines all Vikings got re-branded under Indian Airlines. The Viking was one of only three aircraft ever to feature both a piston-propeller power plant and a turbojet power plant. Which were the other two ??

The last photo shows the 1947 Rolls Royce Nene turbojet powered Viking which was not adopted for commercial use but used instead to gather data on jet powered airliner flights for the then upcoming de Havilland Comet jet airliner. The jet powered Viking cruised at

This was a stubby simple aircraft with a length of only 65 feet and a wingspan of 89 feet. It was designed for 21 to 24 passengers and cruised at a stately 340 kmph!!! In fact the Air India advertisements of those days, 1948, boasted about flying Bombay to Calcutta (the busiest route in India till about 1972) in just five and a half hours . Engines fitted were the WW-II tried and tested Bristol Hercules 38,900 cc 14-cylinder radials developing 1690 shp each.
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Old 4th November 2019, 16:30   #70
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Quote:
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The Viking was one of only three aircraft ever to feature both a piston-propeller power plant and a turbojet power plant. Which were the other two ??
One of them was the Convair B-36 Peacemaker. "Six Turning & Four Burning" - That famous line in reference to its Four Jet Engines and Six Prop engines from the movie 'Strategic Air Command'.
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Old 4th November 2019, 23:07   #71
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One of them was the Convair B-36 Peacemaker. "Six Turning & Four Burning" - That famous line in reference to its Four Jet Engines and Six Prop engines from the movie 'Strategic Air Command'.
Yup. 10 on 10 marks.

The other was the Swedish Saab J21R. It was literally the Saab J21 piston engined pusher prop fighter converted by fitting a turbojet where the piston sat! Being Swedish it was a success for its time ie late 1940s and enabled Sweden to be the 4th country to put its own home designed jet fighter into squadron service after the big 3 of the day - USA, USSR and UK. Quite remarkable for a small country. While at it we can add the Vickers Viscount's turbo jet powered prototype too. As most readers may know the Viscount was the world's first turbo prop powered airliner and a great hit. Vickers fitted one hull with two Rolls Royce Tay centrifugal turbojets of 3500 kgf each. The prototype was a success and flew for several years as a platform on which systems for the subsequent Vickers Valiant bomber were developed but it was never commercialized. Who knows if it had been then the jet Viscount and not the Comet would have been the first jet airliner. The range was marginal with its modest MTOW and high fuel burn of the early thirsty turbojets.


The period 1945 to 1965 saw aviation evolve at a breath taking pace in speed, power, engines, altitude, systems, metallurgy etc and this window where props and jets overlapped in the same airframe was a short lived aberration from ~1947 to 1959.
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Old 5th November 2019, 00:43   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
The Viking was one of only three aircraft ever to feature both a piston-propeller power plant and a turbojet power plant. Which were the other two ??
There was also the Dornier Do328 (a turboprop powered airliner) and the Do328JET (A turbofan version of the same).
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Old 5th November 2019, 00:53   #73
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Lockheed P2 Neptune sported two propellors and two jet engines. The jet engines were mainly used for take off. They were shut down once the Neptune was on station.

Jeroen
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Old 5th November 2019, 10:02   #74
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There was also the Dornier Do328 (a turboprop powered airliner) and the Do328JET (A turbofan version of the same).
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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Lockheed P2 Neptune sported two propellors and two jet engines. The jet engines were mainly used for take off. They were shut down once the Neptune was on station.

Jeroen
So wonderful. Every day is a new learning. Thanks for sharing. I did not know this. And of course there was the IAF's own hybrid the Fairchild C-119G Packet fitted with a RR Orpheus dorsal pack. The American ones were retrofitted with two small GE turbojets mounted under the wings outboard of the pistons.
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Old 5th November 2019, 20:11   #75
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Originally Posted by skanchan95 View Post
One of them was the Convair B-36 Peacemaker. "Six Turning & Four Burning" - That famous line in reference to its Four Jet Engines and Six Prop engines from the movie 'Strategic Air Command'.
If only they had connected (one of their cargo, a nuclear reactor) to some propulsive element!

The Tunnen started design as a propeller plane. Were any built?

Regards
Sutripta
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