[Relax&Cruise]

Originally Posted by GeeTee TSI

Probably those working in Oil and Gas can relate, this industry takes driving safety very seriously and it extends to the contractors too.

Dedicated safety inspectors, back office for tracking driving hours, driver fitness and the hours of sleep he had before a trip (this I am not making it up!) Every vehicle on the road is equipped with a tracking device (I can vouch for it's existence for at least a decade even in India). Drivers are given training followed by a commentary drive, their driving parameters are monitored.

+1
I had that experience when one of our office staff was driving me to Exmouth Aus from a nearby airport, the guy had to update start of journey, end of journey, tracking device connected to the rental car, mobile phone to be kept off for the duration of travel (there were few cases of random checking by calling the mobile number), time taken to arrive is checked for speeding, if no intimation of arrival then contingency plans are set rolling, driving hours are monitored as per fatigue management policy.

As an employee you can take a defensive driving course, other than that there are a few online tests we have to pass, just simple stuff.
Not wearing seatbelt is straight dismissal, whoever it is.
Most of this is applicable to contractors as well, not sure how much.

Glad to know these rules are being implemented to benefit our truck drivers.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by Spinnerr

Slightly OT:
In this thread, there were a couple of posts about trucking being better off in USA and Canada, but then, they have their own set of problems. Comparatively they have better trucks, bigger, cleaner truck stops, more stringent rules; still they live with their own set of problems.

+1

Originally Posted by coolvenk

From what I remember, truckers in the US get paid rather well, since they have trouble finding people otherwise, due to the other negatives of the job.

They get paid decently; but nothing over the top.

Back in 2014 on a greyhound bus trip, I sat next to a older Pakistani gentleman and we got talking; he had spent the last 20 odd years as a truck driver. Retired and now just spending time doing odd jobs, he opened up slowly - the pay was decent considering the other jobs for truckers like him either required specific skillset or offered only minimum pay options.

But life on the road was not easy - they do have their own set of problems. Regulations are strong so they have to stay in line. Drug abuse is a huge problem; plus a lot more set of issues.

[jeevadeepan]

Thank you for bringing this up BLACKBLADE. Pathetic state of our trucker's lives should be documented.

In my opinion, they are the most considerate users of our highways. RTO harassment, Limited/No facilities on the roads, outdated utilitarian trucks lacking basic comfort. It's very sad to see them work under such harsh conditions.

While we can only dream about 'Truck stops' and 'Tesla semis' of the west, they should at least be provided with basic creature comforts to carry out their day to day work.

[extreme_torque]

How will we ever improve the lives of drivers when half of the forum was rejoicing at the 80kmph top speed limit being imposed on cabs and cabs only. Driving is a thankless job in India. Infact anything that does not involve sitting in an AC workplace typing away on a computer is not a job worth doing and paying.

[motorguy]

The problem here is that of enforcement. We all know that cabs race (and many rather recklessly). Whenever I see a cab behind me I take care. I have generally seen truckers abide by speed limits though they are oftentimes in the fast lanes of highways where there should not be (can you blame them if other creatures such as cows, people walking, mopeds and bikes hog up the slow lanes? )

In this respect speed governors should be mandatory for cabs (i.e. the actions of majority of a group will affect the few good apples in that group). For example, Maruti has recognized this by limiting speed to 80km on the "Tour" version of the Dzire.

Having said that, we also see a lot of private cars driving recklessly. Many of these cars are registered either with fake addresses or non-verifiable addresses. Hence enforcement cannot be done (a traffic notice never reaches them and they know that).

In the US and Europe, compliance is very good. In places like Dubai, you can get into lots of trouble by violating traffic regulations. Hence the real solution is to have an agency that can truly enforce the Motor Vehicles law and not simply put ridiculous speed limits on one group or other.

[pedrolourenco]

There are 2 problems related to Trucking:
- Problems faced by the truckers.
- Problems caused by truckers.

The root cause of both these problems is:
- Bad design of roads.
- Bad design of trucks.

Solve these 2 problems and 80% of accidents and other problems on the road will disappear.

People have already highlighted the bad design of the trucks in India. Most of the trucks (Tata and Leyland) are basically 1960's design. Yes they have made some improvements but very minor. The Eicher trucks are no better. Though more recent, they too look like 1960's designed.
Modern trucks are available like Volvo, MAN, Mercedes Benz, Scania etc. Even Tata has the Prima range and Leyland too has a similar range. Then there is Mahindra Navistar. But for some reason people don't buy too many of these. The rest of the world including the 3rd world countries use modern trailer trucks but India still stubbornly persists with the old wooden bodied fixed axle trucks.

Coming to roads. I recently drove to Hubli from Goa. First problem was the ghats. The roads are too narrow and almost every harpin bend had a huge crater in the centre. Then I approached the Ramnagar toll. The toll road was very narrow and a continuous sequence of S bends from Ramnagar to Dharwad. There is absolutely no reason or logic for these bends and there is open space on both sides and they can easily make a straight road with 3 lanes each side. Then there are speed breakers (I thought Supreme Court banned them) every km that too without any warning signs or markings.

Driving a car designed in 2015 with all safety and comfort features plus adequate power is a real pain. Imagine the effort required to drive a 1960's designed truck. How do you expect the truckers not to have accidents?

[BLACKBLADE]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

How will we ever improve the lives of drivers when half of the forum was rejoicing at the 80kmph top speed limit being imposed on cabs and cabs only. Driving is a thankless job in India. Infact anything that does not involve sitting in an AC workplace typing away on a computer is not a job worth doing and paying.

Even I was taken aback by the inclination of many BHPians on supporting the 80 Km Top speed limit, only for cabs. Driving as a job is considered lowly in India, period. Till the time the privileged people in this country change their perception, this is going to continue. How many people take up driving, owing to passion for driving ? It is just another means of earning your daily bread. I don't think it is much different in the west too. Life is hard for them too. Just that, comparatively their life style and conditions are much better, compared to India. We have a long way to catch up with the west. From condition of roads, to condition of trucks, to salary, to designated driving times (working hours), to truck stops, to health care, everything needs to be improved. There is a reason that white collar jobs are called so ! As rightly pointed out by you, It is a privilege to have a white collar job, where you sit in your air-conditioned cabin, typing your way to success !

[tilt]

Originally Posted by tharian

*SNIP*
I am one those guys who always think, even now, that if I was in a nation like in Europe or North America, I would have taken up this profession. *SNIP*

Well, I did take up the profession. I was at the burnout stage in my career and decided I needed to pull back and chill a bit to preserve my sanity. So, I took a sabbatical, went to trucking school and drove an 18-wheeler semi for about a year in Canada and the States. I did go back later to my original career though.

Originally Posted by BLACKBLADE

*SNIP*Some even drive long haul trucks as a family, husband and wife together.
*SNIP*

Yes, I have met a few; and I have also met former airline pilots, corporate executives, lawyers and techies who decided to give it all up and drive trucks for a living.

I came across one couple who sold their home, car and possessions, bought a truck and a couple of Harleys. They loaded the Harleys behind the tractor and pulled trailers. When they came across a place they liked, they delivered the trailer, unloaded the harleys and rode together for a few days until they decide to pick up another load and truck for a while.

Originally Posted by coolvenk

From what I remember, truckers in the US get paid rather well, since they have trouble finding people otherwise, due to the other negatives of the job.

Not necessarily. They get paid around 40-42 cents a mile if they are hired drivers. Owner-operators with their own tractors get paid a bit more because they have to look after all maintenance and insurance etc. I got paid 41 cents a mile.

And please note, this is not actual miles driven; this is miles calculated by their trucking program, which is way less than what one would actually drive.

Also, a trucker only gets paid when the wheels are actually turning. Meaning, you're stuck in a traffic jam, you do not get paid. You stop to eat or fill fuel or rest, you do not get paid. You have to take a much longer diversion due to road closures, you still get paid the original calculated miles.

The only way a trucker can make more money is if they cook up their logs. They essentially maintain two log books - one for themselves and one for the DoT officers. The DoT version of the log will show they only worked x hours and drive x miles etc. while their own log would show everything. All this too is now getting difficult because of GPS-based automatic logs!

Originally Posted by Spinnerr

*SNIP*
A common means to make some extra bucks is by taking in a passenger, offering lift to backpackers *SNIP*

All not permitted at all in North America by the trucking companies. This is in the interest if liability.

Originally Posted by Spinnerr

Slightly OT:
In this thread, there were a couple of posts about trucking being better off in USA and Canada, but then, they have their own set of problems. Comparatively they have better trucks, bigger, cleaner truck stops, more stringent rules; still they live with their own set of problems.*SNIP*

True. We have laws regarding hours of service and what can be done during those hours and how they are to be accounted, we have to perform stringent Pre-Trip-Inspections and Post-Trip-Inspections for every trip; and all the have to be diligently and accurately logged. We can be stopped at any point by a DoT official in a patrol car and inspected.

Every little thing in the truck had to function perfectly. There are truckers who install so many lights in their trucks that it looks like a christmas tree. Though those lights are purely optional and due to personal preference, those lights too had to work perfectly, else we would be penalised. Simply put, if there is something on your truck, it had to work perfectly.

That said, the tractor was better than the most luxurious of luxury cars you can find. I had seats that would adjust electrically and pneumatically twenty ways to Sunday, steering wheels that have infinite levels off adjustment, a huge living space in the back with a bed and work table and power-points galore, an inverter, a microwave, a fridge, climate control, 8-speaker stereo; and some trucks also had TVs; and some truckers install a dish for TV etc.

Truck stops had showers, restaurants, fuel pumps, weigh-scales to make sure you're not overloaded on any axle (yes, we had weight limits per axle, not for the truck as a whole), a shop to buy videos, or other stuff like CB Radios or stoves or air compressors or other knick-knacks etc.

My truck was a 13-speed manual (truckers can choose their tractor manufacturer, their engine manufacturer, the power of the engine, and the gearbox manufacturer and the number of gears they need). So, I could buy a Volvo truck with a Mercedes or Cummins engine and an Eaton gearbox with 8-10-13-18-22-speeds etc.

And I remembered someone saying earlier that our trucks in India cannot handle slopes and they plod along at 15 mph etc. Well, the trucks in North America are not much better in that sense. I have climbed slopes where I am in first gear at 5 kmph for a couple of miles.

The nice part about my trucking was that I attended skid-school in the truck. Sliding, drifting, jack-knifing a fully loaded trailer and bringing it back without losing the truck or the trailer, defensive manoeuvres at relatively high speeds, etc. Lots of fun!

But, having said all that, I would never be a trucker in India because of everything people have already posted here and because of what I have seen on the road here as to how trucks and truckers are treated.

Cheers

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by BLACKBLADE

Even I was taken aback by the inclination of many BHPians on supporting the 80 Km Top speed limit, only for cabs. Driving as a job is considered lowly in India, period. Till the time the privileged people in this country change their perception, this is going to continue.

Dear BLACKBLADE, first a very warm thank you to you for raising this very critical subject. Ours is still very much a feudal society where we who belong to the class of influencers and decision makers address things only when the shoe pinches us. I look forward to the day when on T-BHP we have a significant number of truck operators and God willing one day a truck driver too.

The driver who does the real work is exploited first by customer expectations, then by employer demands and finally by the cops and naka tax collectors. In the '80s when I sold trucks/hire-purchase the operators would have a few pet drivers who were reliable long timers and who made up the core 20%. The remainder 80% were a floating population who worked for 3 to 24 months and moved on. The core 20% gives the operator bargaining strength with the hapless 80%. Bus drivers tended to be more long serving. As a part of my job I would, a few times a year, drive with them for an hour or two. It is impossible to stay awake on a hot afternoon in that noisy jerky underpowered cab. The social thinking of the time was such that it never crossed my mind that they had a hard life. It was more of a boy they must be grateful to have a job at all!

In addition to their tough life the truck cabin has a sub-culture all of its own from jokes, to gossip, to solutions for all the nation's problems, to a discussion on their favourite woman at certain stops, to all that the OEM ought to do to improve the truck to practical and corny (but workable) solutions to road side repairs.

Maid servants, miners, truck drivers, rickshaw pullers....we have a long way to go.

[ninjatalli]

Warning: OT discussion

Originally Posted by tilt

Well, I did take up the profession. I was at the burnout stage in my career and decided I needed to pull back and chill a bit to preserve my sanity. So, I took a sabbatical, went to trucking school and drove an 18-wheeler semi for about a year in Canada and the States.

That's BRILLIANT You just did one of my bucket list items (lol)

I always believe to see the US, you need to be on the roads. It's a different matter the average Indian tourist makes a NY-Niagara-DC-Orlando/Miami-LasVegas-LA-SFO trip.

Come'on, we need more tidbits on your experience. I'd love to hear more (and I'm sure others would too). To start with...

Did you get to take breaks between your trips to have a look around locally? Which states / routes did you traverse? Any anecdotes to share? How's the trucking fraternity (in terms of acceptance, etc)? What's the experience on driving across the Appalachian ranges and/or the Rocky Mountains?

I'd say your experience warrants a separate thread, but I guess I'm just being optimistic!

Originally Posted by tilt

I came across one couple who sold their home, car and possessions, bought a truck and a couple of Harleys. They loaded the Harleys behind the tractor and pulled trailers. When they came across a place they liked, they delivered the trailer, unloaded the harleys and rode together for a few days until they decide to pick up another load and truck for a while.

Any chance you are aware if they have any blog/website that they post to? Or for that matter anyone else who does?

Not necessarily. They get paid around 40-42 cents a mile if they are hired drivers. Owner-operators with their own tractors get paid a bit more because they have to look after all maintenance and insurance etc. I got paid 41 cents a mile.

I guess fuel costs are the driver's responsibility (for hired drivers), no?

[Theyota]

Excellent thread topic. Pleased to know that this board members can bring up such thought provoking issues.

The India Trucking fraternity is one of the most neglected fraternity in our economy inspite of being a very critical pillar of our economy. Without an efficient trucking industry, "Make-In-India" etc are nothing but gimmicks. The poor drivers of these trucks are treated like the lowest denominator of our roads by everyone including police, cars, motor bikes, state buses, etc. Our governments instead of looking at this industry as a massive job creator and regulating it for safety and efficiency, keeps on finding more ways to tax it left and right.

[Sawyer]

I agree with much of what is on this thread, but have to bring forth another supposedly vital sector that is treated even worse - construction workers. No one even keeps track of deaths on construction sites in India.

Or another vital sector - sanitation workers.

How about school teachers in general?

We may reach Mars, ride in hyper loops and bullet trains and live in gated housing complexes, but this schizophrenic behaviour is not sustainable over a long term in this age of information connectedness. A day will come when we are presented with the bill for this kind of development and behaviour.

What truck drivers see is just one aspect of the Indian ground reality.

[a4anurag]

Found this on a container. Liked the way it conveyed the message.

[tilt]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Warning: OT discussion


That's BRILLIANT You just did one of my bucket list items (lol)

I always believe to see the US, you need to be on the roads. It's a different matter the average Indian tourist makes a NY-Niagara-DC-Orlando/Miami-LasVegas-LA-SFO trip.

Come'on, we need more tidbits on your experience. I'd love to hear more (and I'm sure others would too). To start with...

Did you get to take breaks between your trips to have a look around locally? Which states / routes did you traverse? Any anecdotes to share? How's the trucking fraternity (in terms of acceptance, etc)? What's the experience on driving across the Appalachian ranges and/or the Rocky Mountains?

I'd say your experience warrants a separate thread, but I guess I'm just being optimistic!



Any chance you are aware if they have any blog/website that they post to? Or for that matter anyone else who does?


I guess fuel costs are the driver's responsibility (for hired drivers), no?

Thank you. I love driving, and my bucket list mainly consists of driving anything that can be driven.

Yes I do believe this is OT, and maybe we could discuss this offline so as to not to hijack this thread; however, I shall respond to this one post.

I agree with you - the best way to see a country is to drive. And trucking is the most enjoyable job I have ever had, except that the pay is not enough to make a proper living.

No, I did not get to take breaks and do any sightseeing. I was a paid driver with a trucking company using their equipment; and they do not get paid unless the wheels are turning with a paid load. Therefore my job was to use their time and equipment to make them money.

My routes were mainly the Right half of North America, meaning, the provinces of Ontario and Quebec in Canada, and the entire East of the States, the westernmost point being in Iowa state.

In terms of acceptance, dignity of labour is a thing there, and one is respected irrespective of what job one does. For the most part. I had neighbours in my gated complex who spanned the gamut of careers.

I never drove the Rocky mountains (as I said I only drove the Right half, not the Left). Appalachians, Adirondacks, yes; and it was very scenic. Also it was dangerous in the slopes. The up-slopes were slow and grinding, the down-slopes were terrifying because of likely brake-fade and likelihood of complete brake failures, necessitating uncontrolled runs down the slope and looking for the nearest runaway-ramp to stop safely. But of course, we were trained on how to avoid brake fades and also how to get out of such situations. I was lucky that I never had to experience complete brake failure. I have seen other trucks have this, and roll down with smoke and flames billowing out of the wheels.

Sorry, I do not know if they have a blog, but I am sure you can google and find many blogs maintained by truckers.

Fuel costs (any cost for that matter) are never the responsibility of the hired drivers. Only owner-operators pay their own way. I had a company-issued fuel-card I could use at listed fuel-stations, I had company-issued cards to use at all border-crossing bridges and tunnels, I had EZ-Pass (the North American version of Fastag) for all tolls, and I also had another transponder to bypass all inspection stations and DoT weigh-scales without having to go in and be inspected.

The bypassing of inspection stations is because of the trusted-company program called FAST. It is a certification for the trucking company, the truck-driver, the shipping company and the receiving company. If all four are certified (this has to be for each load that I carry and is not a blanket thing), one may bypass inspection stations, and also cross the border through special lanes where one does not have to wait and answer stupid questions and be harassed by the immigration officers.

If there is even one trip I make where, say the shipping company, or the receiving company is not FAST-certified, I have to go through the regular lanes for that trip.

OK, let the thread now get back on topic

Cheers

[BLACKBLADE]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Found this on a a container. Liked the way it conveyed the message.

Just conveys the message beautifully, summarized in a few words. Nice perspective too. The food, the clothes and almost all the products that we use must have been transported by a trucker at some point of time, either as raw material or as finished goods! Indeed truckers drive the nation's economy. Their purpose is larger, just like the trucks they drive, touching the lives of millions.