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-   -   Airbus A320neo: Pratt & Whitney engine issues (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commercial-vehicles/196854-airbus-a320neo-pratt-whitney-engine-issues-8.html)

Considering the problems faced by aircrafts due to the Pratt &Whitney engines of the A320-Neo, the DGCA has issued a circular, instructing operators (Indigo and GoAir) to stop operating these aircrafts to Port Blair, Andaman, as the next Take-Off Alternate for Port Blair is over 1 hour away and across water.

The most recent incident involving an A20N with P&W engines occured on 21st Jan, when the crew observed excessive vibrations and headed back to Lucknow airport, about half an hour after take-off.

There are 4 points in the circular, with the first 3 pertaining to inspection and maintenance of affected aircrafts and the last one, the restriction on flying to Andaman.

Read the complete circular here.

PS: Such instructions (will/should) have nothing to do with bloated articles coming in news media - the DGCA or any such aviation regulator will/should rely on data.

Wouldn't it be easier and safer to land at Agra/Gwalior airport instead of turning back to Lucknow? I guess Agra could have been much nearer from the turning point than Lucknow.

In 1990 when an Indian Airlines newly acquired A320 crashed in Bangalore the then Civil aviation minister grounded the entire fleet till issue was found. This is what required even at cost of losing money.

As usual Civil Aviation ministry is more concerned about bottom end of andrlines than safety of passengers:deadhorse

One thing is perplexing that many engine manufacturers including Rolls Royce are having issues with their latest engine. I feel engines are being pushed without adequate testing just to save money. Really appalled by state of affairs in airline industry

Looks like bad news that Pratt & Whitney are still struggling
He must have chosen to go back as LKO has the support system for his aircraft and airline. Agra is an IAF base and getting support there including accommodating & managing all the passengers without any ground staff amongst other things would be a challenge. Flying 30 minutes on a single engine is a no brainer.
Permit me to differ. The 1990 grounding was because the fly by wire and all automated computer control was so new to the pilots that too many mistakes were being made. DGCA takes decisions based on practicality and safety. They maybe a Govt body but they are not stupid. You can't ground an entire fleet and jeopardize the country's transportation because a few engines in a given batch may sometimes give a problem. If DGCA ground 45 aircraft at one go the same press and passengers will yell about higher fares, shortage of seats, cancelled flights, etc. A balanced decision is what they take. You have probably flown on a Neo more than a few times without knowing it. To say that the DGCA is more concerned about airline profits than passenger safety is in my professional opinion an unfair statement. They are a pain in the neck to deal with but this would be below the belt.
You are appalled because everything else works so perfectly that the public has no tolerance for the slightest imperfection. Rolls Royce did have a serious accident (non-fatal) with their Quantas A380 Trent. Sad. The issues were rectified. Life moved on. Engines today are tested 10X or more qualitatively and quantitatively than say 50 years ago. That engines are so reliable and become so much in the back ground like fresh air that this PW Neo problem looks so stark against an otherwise white canvas.

Absolutely. That grounding was a knee-jerk reaction. The fly by wire aircraft was inducted too fast. The airline had no choice - at that time they were desperate for aircraft. IC (Indian Airlines) was not even supposed to get the A320s then. Letter of Intent were in fact given for Boeing 757s for IC and Boeing 767s for Air India (AI) before they were changed to A310s (AI) and A320 (IC). At the time the original A320 order was placed, the aircraft was not even in service with any airline.

And in the end, both the Justice Shivshankar Bhatt led committee of Inquiry which looked at the Bangalore crash and Air Marshal Ramdas committee which looked at the A320 suitability for the airline post the Bangalore accident, gave a clean chit to the airline. Even while the aircraft were grounded, interestingly they were used for the airlift of stranded Indians affected by the Iraq invasion of Kuwait, from Jordan and they did a lot of flying.

Well said. Agree 100%. JRD Tata had headed a committee in the early 1980s that had recommended the Boeing 757 and Boeing 737-300 for Indian Airlines and the Boeing 757 and 767 for Air India. In fact I went to Santacruz airport, in 1982 (I think it was December), to watch the arrival of the Boeing 757 for testing in Indian skies. Those were days of innocence (relatively speaking) and it was actually announced through a tiny news item! And the visitors gallery then was open air balcony and I carried my binoculars.

But then PM Rajiv Gandhi on a visit to France got swept away by the A320 - there may have been other 'considerations' that we don't know - and ordered I think 32 off the drawing board almost. Any way today the A320 is a very mature and stable product and the current generation of flight crew do not have to unlearn their flying methods to adjust to a computer controlled aircraft.

Boeing do not pursue technology for the sake of technology. The central yoke versus the side stick control being a case in point a la Air France 447. You seem to know your onions on aviation matters:)

Thank you sir.Honoured and humbled to receive your praise.

Everything about what you mentioned about the switch of the aircraft from Boeing to Airbus is correct. I was also aware of the same (through media reports) but do not have the credentials like you have to state it upfront in a forum like Team BHP.

Those were the pre Internet days and most people have all but forgotten those events. Those days print media more than any other was the principal source of information but only a few journalists covered aviation issues in depth. Raj Chengappa then of India Today was one such person who I remember . He used to cover issues in depth and was also objective.

I think full credit also should be given to both Justice Shivshankar Bhat as well as Air Marshal Ramdas for being meticulous and scrupulously fair in performing their jobs and not allowing in any way to be influenced by the sentiments of the day. Infact after the A320s were inducted back to the IC fleet after Air Marshal Ramdas committee recommendation, it has provided commendable service to IC and AI ever since.

Conventional yoke have killed as well, a C130J crashed due to a night vision goggle case jammed the yoke on take off. 14 people lost their life.

There have been various other accidents with conventional yokes along the same line. I remember a DC3 where the yoke got stuck by a mike (or part of) dropping or something along those lines.

I have flown with conventional yokes (Cessna), central Stick (Diamond) and side stick (Cirrus). I must admit I prefer the side stick over the other configurations. There is one down side to the side stick. If the auto-pilots breaks down and without a pilot in the right seat you find yourself having to fly the aircraft with your left hand only. It does get a bit tedious/tiring/cramped after a while.

Longest I had to do so was about 90 minutes. Autopilot gave up in flight from Chicago to Kansas City. Could not fix it. It was under IMC conditions too, so it required precise flying. Not a problem perse, but by the time I had to land my left arm was definitely tired. Tricky landing too, dark, cross wind. You really want to be at your sharpest. Not have a left cramped/tired arm.

I guess that anything that can move can get stuck, no matter what. I seem to recall some issues on Airbus too with pilot propping stuff behind the side stick. I seem to recall that the side stick on the F16 initially did not have any movement. It measured the force and angle at which the pilot pushed against it. At least it can not get stuck. But they did away with that concept pretty quickly as no pilot liked it, I believe

Jeroen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll3HnxBWDwM

A well made video by Flight Channel, on Southwest 1380, explaining what happened and the handling by the 2 pilots. Includes live voice recordings of the pilots as the event unfolded. It also highlights how a pilot must judge the situation in the 200 feet behind him/her by looking at the instruments alone and how decisions have to be taken in quick time with inadequate information.

Always wondered about a number of things:
A) Why no cameras (with feed to cockpit) to give better situational awareness for pilots.
B) Why no sensor on landing gear giving indicative weight of aircraft when on ground.

Regards
Sutripta

Exactly. Always wondered why. It is easy to implement. One focused on the tail fin, two on the wing undersides maybe a couple well placed ones in the cargo hold.

A380 has several cameraas. In general it was felt it is nice for the passenger but of limited use to pilots.

Several modern planes have elaborate weight sensors in the gear. E.g. 747 has had it for decades.

Jeroen

Why do we hear of miscalculation of take off weight leading to subsequent problems?

How do cameras help passengers?

Regards
Sutripta

Pilots still make errors inputting the data into the flight management system.

Cameras don't help passenger, but they are part of the inflight entertainment. On for instance the A380 as a passenger you can choose which of the outside cameras you like to watch. Pretty cool!


https://youtu.be/cKHIHSTyjAE
Jeroen

An onboard weight indicator would act as a very simple crosscheck. For precisely this reason.

Cameras for pilots. Given its minimum cost, wonder whether it hurts the pilots ego in some way?

Singapore Airlines :- Recent news - cameras which can spy on passengers.