[joslicx]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Also, Vande Bharat, Haj flights etc... Too many examples of Air India playing a role which no private player had to....

The government can pay and rope in any private airline for any such scenario. What's the problem in that.

Why keep a white elephant in the house for a once in a year ceremony? It's really really expensive to maintain and no good use of money in a poor country like India that needs that money for more basic stuff like education or healthcare.

[anjan_c2007]

I believe that in the socialist era before the globalisation and privatisation of mid- 1991, we rarely heard of any losses or profits being made by Air India and Indian Airlines and even Alliance Air the subsidiary of Indian Airlines. So the public never knew in how much deep waters these were or were these swimming ? Apart from the political patronage these received when favourites were appointed to the top posts and to the Board of Directors these airlines symbolised power of the political and bureaucratic classes.

We also had Vayudoot another PSU formed in 1981 with two leased Fokker F 27 100 Friendship aircrafts headed by a young person Mr Harsh Vardhan (from Hassanpur, U.P.) as CMD. He was close to Mr Raghu Raj, CMD, Air India, as his executive assistant. And as a representative of AI in the committee formed for Asiad 1982 in the early 1980's, he impressed the powers that be. Vardhan was a topper from the Poddar Institute of Management. His extra curricular achievement was that he had delivered a lecture at Oxford and was interviewed by the BBC's Life Programme. A favourite of the Prime Minister of India (1984-89) Vardhan's rise was sure and meteoric. Vayudoot was concieved as the airline for the North Eastern Region initially. For example, it had services between Lilabari (Assam) to Lilo (Arunachal Pradesh) and other routes in NE India. Thereafter, as a feeder airline to the Indian Airlines routes, it operated from airports in small towns never heard of before. Needless to say, it started incurring losses due to poor occupancy. But by 1991, it had 21 aircraft comprising, Dorniers 228-201, H.S. 748 Avros and Fokker F-27- 100 Friendships. Vayudoot also operated a night air mail service and had its Agro Division with helicopters. By the early 1990's the losses in Vayudoot mounted. And in 1993, Vayudoot was merged with the Indian Airlines, which also took over its services by 1997. Vayudoot employees were absorbed in Air India and Indian Airlines.

This is just an example of how Air India and Indian Airlines kept on accumalating deadwood and fat progressively due to political and bureaucratic compulsions. No doubt, the two airlines (Indian Airlines and Air India) during their hey days have catered to lots and lots of societal causes like airlifting our citizens from abroad whenever the need arose in the hundreds and thousands. The two airlines have also been known for plying on some politically decided routes with subsidised fares (who paid back or if at all the subsidy amounts back to the two airlines is not known?), ferrying politicians abroad frequently on the Boeing 747's for "State Visits" and various other miscelleneous jobs from time to time.

When at its prime, Indian Airlines/ Air India would offer five star hotel lunches/ dinners from the Welcome or Taj or Oberoi Group of hotels to passengers who had hopping flights. So say my flight was from Chennai to Lucknow via Delhi, at Delhi if there was a time gap, lunch/ dinner/ snack coupons would be issued to passengers depending on the time. I have enjoyed this kind of hospitality during many such hopping flights at Mumbai, Delhi and Kolkata airports on many ocassions. This was apart from their meal or snack (on short duration flights) service on board, usually from TajStats. And also five star hotel stays were liberally granted, when flights were grounded for whatever reason somewhere, after the check-in was done.

And the lowest to the highest rung airline employees got free flight tickets liberally for themselves their dependents while availing LTC.

I remember once when a senior colleague who went by the rulebook was stranded at the Patna airport due to a technical snag in an Indian Airlines plane. He got five star accomodation with all others for the night halt. Then he threw a tantrum to the airline staff saying "by your rule book I am entitled to a sleeping suit during unscheduled night halts. Please get one for me." The staff obliged.

Another Patna airport incident that became a national joke in the 1990's was when the Indian Airlines pilot refused to take off, the sole reason being that an air hostess' basic pay was more than this pilot's. He said, she should not be on this flight with a junior like him. The air hostess was finally deboarded for the flight to ultimately take off much late, after its scheduled departure.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

I think the point was that a corrupt minister and mismanagement led to their current plight. How does one expect a firm to compete in a free market when you tie it down with incompetent and corrupt leadership?

Easy to lampoon the airline, but harder to set things right. Probably best that its being sold and hopefully to the Tata's. Just don't expect the airline to be available for free humanitarian operations henceforth.

During my many experiences of flying AI and occasional conversations with AI staff (senior cabin pursers etc), I got the impression that there were two sets of people there. One set who wanted to run operations like a typical bureaucracy and another set (mostly the line personnel) who tried to run it as professionally as possible. The rather stern and matronly looking FA would not smile and try to please the passengers but she would sure know her way through the emergency drill if it ever came to that. Somehow I am not that confident about the new crop of prim and proper cabin crew onboard the private airlines. Everything looks a rushed job.

[KiloAlpha]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

When at its prime, Indian Airlines/ Air India would offer five star hotel lunches/ dinners from the WelcomeGroup of hotels (another PSU) to passengers who had hopping flights....

Small correction sir - WelcomeGroup was not a PSU, it was a division of ITC. Indian Airlines and Air India would source their 5-star lunches & dinners from ITDC hotels, and these were usually called Ashok/Ashoka.

My grandfather worked for both ITDC and WelcomeGroup, so I pretty much grew up in these hotels ...

[anjan_c2007]

Originally Posted by KiloAlpha

Small correction sir - WelcomeGroup was not a PSU, it was a division of ITC.

Corrected, Thanks! The meals I was served were always from many other 5 star hotels as feasible at those locations, including from the ITDC. Usually TajStats served the meals.

[SnS_12]

Finally the drama around this sale is over and it officially now goes back to TATA

[RaghuVis]

Yes indeed.. confirmation from none other than Mr Ratan Tata!

[SnS_12]

The DIPAM secretary said Tatas' bid of Rs 18,000 crore comprises taking over of 15,300 crore of debt and paying the rest in cash. Govt to get Rs 2,700 cr cash from Tatas for sale of its 100 pc stake, said DIPAM Secretary. Tata Sons' winning bid of Rs 18,000 crore for Air India higher than reserve price of Rs 12,906 crore set by government, the official added. The transaction is expected to close by the end of December 2021

So, what the media in their earlier news goofed up is by printing that Tata bid is about Rs 3,000 crore higher than the reserve price set by the government and about Rs 5,000 crore more than the bid by Singh, which actually is the other way round.

Also, it seems Tata will have to retain employees for 1 year only and can offer VRS from 2nd year onwards.

Guess, lot of people in the industry will be on the fence to make a switch shortly..

[Hayek]

Quite delighted to see a successful strategic sale of an asset after nearly 1.5 decades. Air India was a lemon in the hands of the GOI - and while the airline industry is not one where value creation is common, the Tatas have as good a chance as anyone to succeed. I do hope they retain a quality full service offering in domestic sectors as well, as opposed to a confused strategy a la Jet Airways which was not clear whether to be a full service or LCC, and slipped between two stools.

Am especially glad the government finally realised there is something called sunk cost - and agreed to retain a large part of the debt and illiquid assets which may or may not ever be monetisable. Seems like a fair outcome here.

[sierrabravo98]

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

One has to understand that the same Air India provides VIP flights to its leaders, and conducts evacuation flights on humanitarian grounds. Who bears the cost for this? Is this free market economics?

While I agree with your arguments in general, you seem to be operating under a mistaken assumption that Air India does everything (VIP Airlifts/Humanitarian missions) for free. Nothing can be farther from the truth. Air India charges the government to the last paisa for its services. The below is just one example. An RTI will get you hundreds of others.

https://www.theweek.in/news/biz-tech...pm-travel.html

[Venkatesh]

Statement from N. Chandrasekaran, Chairman of Tata Sons, on winning the Air India bid.





Link

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by sierrabravo98

While I agree with your arguments in general, you seem to be operating under a mistaken assumption that Air India does everything (VIP Airlifts/Humanitarian missions) for free. Nothing can be farther from the truth. Air India charges the government to the last paisa for its services. The below is just one example. An RTI will get you hundreds of others.

https://www.theweek.in/news/biz-tech...pm-travel.html

The article clearly states that the govt is paying the outstanding amounts in bits and pieces. As per this article, The govt still owes Air India for past invoices to the tune of 798 cr.

My grouse is multifold:

1) The govt treats Air India as its captive airline, forcing it to divert aircraft from scheduled commercial flights to VIP flights.
2) They delay payments for these VIP flights for years altogether
3) These invoices are at a concessional value in the first place and doesn't allow Air India to realize revenue which it could have realized if these were commercial flights.
4) Air India had been saddled with political appointees, reservations, corruption etc.

And yet Air India should be lampooned for not being able to compete with the private sector. Its a totally different story that the private sector hasn't painted themselves in glowing colours too. (Examples of Kingfisher and Jet in the recent past)

Anyways, now with Air India going back to the Tata's, hopefully this debate ends, and the airline can resume its business without any political interference and can go back to being a world class airline, like it truly deserves to be. The Maharaja should be resurrected, rather than the silly Sun.

[saisree]

Delighted to Tata getting the Air India fly back but at a price. GOI invested 49% and took the entire lot citing Air Corporations act then in 1953. GOI should have asked for that 49% alone instead.

You give it free and buy the same for a price

[condor]

Apart from the assets, the brand is important too. And I am happy that AI is back with Tata Group. The brand is definitely an emotion. Glad that the brand did not end up with a foreign entity.

Ratan Tata has stated that there is a lot of work to do now. Here's wishing the Tata group the best is turning around AI soon. May Air India soar again !

[shancz]

Finally and well deserved congratulations both to Tata and Air India not to forget all the employees who have been left in the lurch for quite some time now.
Always felt that Air India deserved a better and decisive management who was considerate towards the brand's legacy and who better than Tata.

Same aircraft types across Tata owned airlines and slots will provide a good opportunity to flex and modify their operations optimally, but will wait to see how they catch up.
Lots of work to do.

Something good happened after a very long time