[V.Narayan]

In 2016/2017 I had put in a full and formal bid for a part of Air India. We wont go into the details. One pre-condition was that I as the bidder should have no restrictions on reorganizing the staff or cutting down the staff of that piece. Due diligence was done to the limited extent the Govt permitted. The gating item was not the equipment but the staff and the unions. At that time at the ministerial level there was no willingness to recognize this important concern of bidders though at the bureaucrat level there was a high understanding that this is what every bidder would be frightened of. This remains an issue even today. There are some gems within the Air India staff mind you but as a collective whole along with the unions the sheer effort to get them around makes this an expensive proposition. These constant failed attempts to sell Air India are taking its toll on the morale of the employees I'm sure.

As for Mallaya and Goyal - both need to be behind bars. How the Govt cannot achieve that beats me frankly.

[Sparks]

Originally Posted by srini1785

The problem started way back around 15 years ago when some people high up in the bureaucracy ladder decided to merge the loss making Indian Airlines (anyone even remembers that name now?) with the relatively decent profit making Air India. The India- Middle east route was a monopoly of Air india. There were even reports of people standing through the entire journey. It was over booked with premium. It would not have gotten this far had better sense prevailed.

It was all down hill after the merger. The same is now happening with banks. If a company makes loss , just do it the american way, close it, period.

That merger was a brainchild of private airline executives and owners, in collusion with, the ones that shall not me named. It was also a time when jet and kingfisher, had international ambitions, hence for them to survive entire AI had to disappear, there only misfortune was it survived longer than they could.

Add to this bilaterals “granted” to gulf carries all in the name of open sky.

The airline was forced to order aircrafts that they did not want, at exorbitant interest rates which were impossible to service. A death trap was knowingly created and the company was left to fend for itself. It’s not that it doesn’t generate revenue, it’s the debt servicing that is a problem. This debt was thrust on AI, because private companies wanted AI DEAD, This was achieved quid pro quo, simply because none could compete with it on equal terms.


Jet had 3 flights to London as mentioned by someone, they were launched on foundation laid by AI, it was forced to withdraw, and slots made available

THERE was a time when goyal managed to operate his aircraft with his crew on AIR INDIA call sign to London and back to Delhi and Mumbai. On paper it was Airindia flight, but as soon as passengers went to the gate they saw jet airways aircraft with jet staff welcoming passengers by saying welcome to jet airways,
Incredulous as it may sound this is the truth. This made excellent business sense for AI

Mallya and goyal have forced the dgca to change crew rest laws to suit themselves, which is gross safety violation. These violations continue even today.

In fact the original PREMERGER AI order was for approximately 23 Airbus aircrafts, entirely financed by themselves. decisions changed overnight.

The employees have seen their company being butchered in front of there eyes, by the media and corporates who wanted to flourish and the companies owners combined.

With the kind of exposure and experience the majority of the staff has all will be lapped up by the market in due course of time.

Unions are not a hurdle to the new owners, because there will be no unions.

In fact TATAS keenly DESIRES erstwhile AI even today, but he has been denied.

A taxpayer has killed a taxpayer, while some laughed all the way to the bank, and here we are discussing disinvestment

[srini1785]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

As for Mallaya and Goyal - both need to be behind bars. How the Govt cannot achieve that beats me frankly.

Originally Posted by Sparks

Mallya and goyal have forced the dgca to change crew rest ....

The conspirators become conspired. Mallya/Goyal have both lost their airline. Karma catches up with everyone.

[rakesh_r]

Almost 12 years back I was selected as a Technician. Somehow it didn't go ahead and the recruitment was frozen as Air India reported losses. I did feel dejected. Feel sorry for all those engineers who have licenses only for wide-body aircraft, would be good if the new owners retain the critical manpower.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by srini1785

The conspirators become conspired. Mallya/Goyal have both lost their airline. Karma catches up with everyone.

Not really, you are mixing personal wealth with corporate entity's assets.
One intends to improve the asset side of his personal balance sheet by increasing the liability side of his entity's balance sheet.

As a frequent flyer on the domestic circuit, barring the attitude of select few stewards I haven't really faced any problem with Air India / Indian Airlines.
Their fares are slightly higher than the others - but the aircrafts are very rarely empty.

Also their flights getting late is almost as (in)frequent as Spicejet and others.

Can someone explain to me why they should be making continued losses?

Originally Posted by aadya

Capt Gopinath fails, Roy fails, Mallya fails, Goyal fails, Maran fails - there should be some reason behind all these people failing in the same business. Each of them has been successful in something else but burn their fingers in this business. And Ambanis and Adanis prudently keep away from this business - Any thoughts?

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by aadya

Capt Gopinath fails, Roy fails, Mallya fails, Goyal fails, Maran fails - there should be some reason behind all these people failing in the same business. Each of them has been successful in something else but burn their fingers in this business. And Ambanis and Adanis prudently keep away from this business - Any thoughts?

Just my views but I believe they are directionally correct. I once ran a mid-sized fleet of aircraft for certain specialized use in another geography. So while the business may not be identical to an airline many of the components were the same. Airlines suffer from a very very high fixed cost and a relatively smaller variable cost while the revenue can jump around from quarter to quarter due to external factors over which the airline often has zero control. In this respect it is similar to the hotel industry. Fixed costs here are aircraft lease rentals, airport parking fee, employee costs among the main ones. Semi-fixed but more fixed than semi are scheduled maintenance costs. Variable is mainly fuel which in India attracts unusually higher taxes which add to the burden. In addition to this the slightest disturbance in the international politico-economic environment and your revenue-seat-kms get instantly affected. Same for domestic traffic.

Next in this industry like in all transport or travel businesses your product expires at a specific time i.e. when the flight takes off with an empty seat that unit of sale is gone forever. Professionals who come from industries that sell a physical product, do not always understand the huge impact this expiry factor has. Imagine if a tyre manufacturer had to either sell that tyre by mid-night or throw it away and produce a fresh one.

Further this is one industry where external bodies who are not always aligned with your thought and tone control your last mile access to your customer - the airport authorities & the security authorities. To get to your customer you first need landing rights. Some other industries have these restraints too but in airlines it is absolute. Airport owners in India charge rates often higher than international prices for the same service. This so because they won their bids by offering ridiculous commissions/revenue share contracts to Airport Authority of India. Some of these are in the range of 30% to 38% of revenue earned by the airport owner has to be paid to Airport Authority as a cess. The cost gets passed on to the airlines, the ground handlers and the MROs. I know from personal experience that $ for $ it is cheaper to hire a world class hangar in a leading UK, American or French airport in cities like Manchester, Toulouse, Atlanta than it is to hire a badly maintained hangar in Delhi or Mumbai or Chennai. Several of the costs e.g. lease rentals are in US$ while the bulk of your revenues are in ever depreciating INR.

All these add up. To this you must include the need to run a very sharp process driven operation with repeatable and reliable methods of working which not everyone manages to master.

For the record - Capt Gopinath and Roy of Sahara did not exactly fail. They sold out for a profit. Mallaya and Goyal did eventually fail for different reasons. Marans in my view never ever understood the depth of operational rigour needed. Just my views. Others from the industry may differ.

[r_nairtvm]

Here's our "National Carrier" - here they are stepping forward for our country men once again (Like during 1990 Gulf War and other similar scenarios).

Meet the Bravehearts who manned the Air India 1st evacuation flight from Wuhan





Hope they had some special hepa filters etc in the air conditioning system of the air carft

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by r_nairtvm

Here's our "National Carrier" - here they are stepping forward for our country men once again (Like during 1990 Gulf War and other similar scenarios).

Meet the Bravehearts who manned the Air India 1st evacuation flight from Wuhan

Thank you for sharing this. My salutes to these courageous men and women.

[Stribog]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

As for Mallaya and Goyal - both need to be behind bars. How the Govt cannot achieve that beats me frankly.

Sorry but have they committed any scams? If it's only bankruptcy, why should they go to jail?

[harishpr]

I try my best to take AI whenever possible. Even if their flights are not the best, the business class seats and flat bed is supremely comfortable. AI flies from Bangalore to London, and its flat bed seats certainly offers an inch or 2 extra compared to BA or even Lufthansa. Food options are fully desi and keep my tummy happy.
It's sad to see AI in turmoil and no government has managed to turn around this one. I'll continue to take AI.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Stribog

Sorry but have they committed any scams? If it's only bankruptcy, why should they go to jail?

I do not wish to share my personal knowledge on a public forum but maybe you would like to read the news articles of that period at least. These were not simple bankruptcies.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by harishpr

I try my best to take AI whenever possible. Even if their flights are not the best, the business class seats and flat bed is supremely comfortable. AI flies from Bangalore to London, and its flat bed seats certainly offers an inch or 2 extra compared to BA or even Lufthansa. Food options are fully desi and keep my tummy happy.
It's sad to see AI in turmoil and no government has managed to turn around this one. I'll continue to take AI.

My only long flights now are Delhi-SFO, Delhi-LHR and Delhi-JFK and I agree Air India is a good option to take especially for business class. Other than being non-stop at least the cabin crew make a genuine effort to please and serve which is a vast contrast with United Airlines who make an extra effort to be rude and unhelpful. The airline, in my opinion, has been run into the ground by a long line of rotating door bureaucrat CEOs and the ill-advised merger. On their own Air India and Indian Airlines did much better than in this forced marriage and the extra-ordinary degree of politically motivated willful sell out of routes that took place in the last decade.

[r_nairtvm]

Originally Posted by Sparks

When AI Becomes history get ready to pay triple the fares that are normal now.

That is going to be the case unfortunately - now we are almost at a stage where "anyone can fly fares". A big factor that is preventing a cartel in the market is Air India.

Yes Air India can be effectively neutralised - as has been demonstrated by the air lines from the Gulf Countries in getting almost 80% of the profitable routes from AI's hand.

On a side note - the same story is going to be repeated for Mobile Communications - once BSNL is neutralised

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

For the record - Capt Gopinath and Roy of Sahara did not exactly fail. They sold out for a profit. Mallaya and Goyal did eventually fail for different reasons. Marans in my view never ever understood the depth of operational rigour needed. Just my views. Others from the industry may differ.

Agree with the observation here. But as a layman, couldn't help but notice the curious thread of fate or connectivity between at least three of these names

• One couldn't wait patiently for the 5 year statute to do international operation - goes and buys another airline (Common man's airline) at "not so value for money" prices (the owner of that airline walks LOL to his bank - may be I am wrong but its my opinion as an individual).
• the "impatient luxury airline then tries to do JVs with cash rich or state funded airlines from Middle east - partly, to offset the unrealistic price (and ensuing cash crunch) that was paid for to acquire the "common man's airline".
• The third name in the play then steps in and uses his regional clouts to get the concerned ministries to gang up against the luxury airline and succeeds in shutting out any effective foreign aid/participation- leaving them gasping for cash and eventual collapse
• Then few years down the line the third player themselves lands in the same place as the "luxury airline" was and eventually has to cease the operations

Is it Karma doing its cycles

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Subramanian Swamy terms AI divestment a potential scam in the making.

Subramanian Swamy continues to oppose his own government's decision to sell Air India.

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by Sparks

IAF has been flying IL76 for more than 20 years, why was AIR INDIA needed at all. It’s a little more complicated to fly defense equipment into China, give it some thought. You would say they went to Yemen, well Yemen is not China.

To be noted, IAF planes did not fly into Yemen either! The C17s were only based in Djibouti to take the Indians back home. The planes that actually flew into Yemen were all Air India because the IAF C17s and the USAF C17s look pretty much the same and there was a chance it could get mistakenly shot down by the houthis! But as for China, the Germans used the Luftwaffe (German Air Force) A310 MRTT to evacuate it's citizens. If the Chinese will allow a NATO military aircraft to fly into China, then why not India?

Back to the point of selling Air india, "Jahan ka raja vyapari, Wahan ki praja Bhikari"! Air India is bleeding money and has a debt of $8 billion! To compare, our entire education budget per year is around $ 14 billion. I understand that people have sentiments about having a national carrier but this is an amount we can't afford! If the UK can sell it's crown jewel British Airways - which is owned by IAG which also owns Spain's carrier - Iberia, why not us? Many major flag carriers in liberal democracies are privatised - Air France, KLM, Lufthansa, SWISS, Brussels Airlines, Japan airlines etc.

For evacuations, it's not that difficult to charter planes, for example the US chartered a B747 to extract it's citizens from Wuhan and the UK chartered a hiFly A380 to bring it's citizens back when Thomas Cook collapsed. Even Indian private carriers were asked to evacuate Indians from Libya. We don't need to own a loss making airline for it.

Air India is a attractive buy for any airline. They have slots in many major airports (JFK, Chicago, Newark, Heathrow), have relatively new and well maintained (mechanically) 777s, 787s and A320 Neos, and have some really experienced and professional fight crew (you should see the ATC video of when Air India pilots tried to land their 777 in JFK with multiple instrument failure in overcast weather). The only problem is the debt (the buyer only needs to take on the debt for the planes which is normal for the industry) and bureaucracy (which a simple restructuring will solve).

Selling Air India is good for the airline and it's good for the nation. Lets please not get stuck in pointless sentiments. If the superpower America doesn't need a national airline, we don't need one either.