[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by PetrolRider

3. Do flying domestic and international need separate set of preparations? Are there other private and smaller airfields that are open to GA only? Who manages these airfields?

Just noted I skipped one of your question, so here goes:

Yes, domestic and international flying does need different preparations. Mainly in paperwork. Obviously you need to ensure you are legally allowed to operate the particular aircraft in whatever international airspace you intend to go.

I really don’t have any hands on experience as all of my flying has been in the USA or Europe. Europe from an air space point of view is essentially one airspace with the same rules and regulations.

Especially in the USA there are hundreds, if not thousands of field that cater for primarily GA type of aircraft. Sometimes it could be just a grass strip. Some of these air strips as they are known can be privately owned too.

For most of my time in the USA, New Century AirCentre was my home base

Have a look:

https://www.airnav.com/airport/KIXD

It shows quite a bit of detail. Some of it is easy to figure out: e.g. runway data
It also shows that only runway 36 has an ILS. Runway 18 has a so called VASI. Essentially a set of lights that shows whether you or high or low on approach.

New Century is an old airforce base, so it has good length runways and lots of facilities. It also has a control tower.

The tower and all Air Traffic is operated and funded through governmental bodies and funding. Many airfield charge landing fees which goes toward the running cost of the airport. Although lots of smaller fields don’t have any fees. In all honesty I rarely had to pay the landing fees. Especially if you make use of the services of the local FBO (fixed base operator) (the outfit looking after the airport). Usually if you would fill up, they would not bother with the landing fee. In Europe there is no escaping the landing fees and it adds up very quickly!

If might be a bit of a surprise but there are a lot of quite sizeable airfield that don’t have a manned control tower anymore. Under president Obama, some 120 airfield became so called non-towered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-towered_airport

Some of these airfields are quite large and busy. There a very strict procedures on how you land and take off. In essence there is a defined route you need to follow, the so called circuit. Altitude and point of entry are defined. You continuosly call out your position and intention on the radio and figure out what everybody else is doing. It can get very busy in the cockpit!

Have a look at this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYqcXbcR0Z0

Jeroen

[shankar.balan]

Jeroen!
You’re the best. A man whom one would love to emulate. With all your fantastic and esoteric interests in this life. Sadly, for most of us Blue Passport Boys (read India Citizens and Residents), it ain’t that easy.

Just a quick question. Did you ever read Biggles books in early life?
I cut my reading teeth on them.
And this has inspired me to do short “experience” flights in England and Australia and America.
Sadly, with the cost involved for Flying Lessons and getting a PPL here in India, it doesn’t seem much of a possibility for me at all.

But there is one thing I want to do and soon. Go and do that Spitfire “Battle of Britain” experience in the UK, somewhere around Dover/ Southampton area...

I ll keep watching this interesting thread in the meanwhile!

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Mainly in paperwork.

You have mentioned the word "paperwork" atleast 4 times, for carrying out four unrelated flying activities. Why does flying involve so much paperwork? Why do authorities need all that information?

And do you literally mean filling out a paper form or is it all done online?

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Just a quick question. Did you ever read Biggles books in early life?
I cut my reading teeth on them.
And this has inspired me to do short “experience” flights in England and Australia and America.
Sadly, with the cost involved for Flying Lessons and getting a PPL here in India, it doesn’t seem much of a possibility for me at all.

No, sorry have not read Biggles.

I tried to continue flying in India but found it practically impossible. To date the “cheapest” place to learn to fly and to continue to fly is probably still the USA.

In 2010 I got my PPL for a total cost of probably around $6000. Went solo after 12 hours and did my check ride at 42 hours (minimum is 40). It is probably a bit more expensive these days. If anything fuel prices have gone up.

A few years ago, whilst flying to the USA (as a passenger) I found myself next to a Dutch guy, also a Privat Pilot. He owned a plane in the USA and 4-5 times a year he would fly across the pond and spend a week flying it! He claimed it was still a lot cheaper doing it this way then to own a plane in Europe!

Next best thing, after flying yourself, is indeed try and get yourself into a small plane. Or as an alternative, have a go at some simulation. I flew the original BA concorde simulator. (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/comme...simulator.html (Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator))

Or have a go at the big commercial jets and fly one of the BA full motion simulators when they are not training their own pilots:

https://www.britishairways.com/en-fr...mulator-public

Originally Posted by smartcat

You have mentioned the word "paperwork" atleast 4 times, for carrying out four unrelated flying activities. Why does flying involve so much paperwork? Why do authorities need all that information?

And do you literally mean filling out a paper form or is it all done online?

It is not just the authorities, there is a lot of paperwork that you as pilot need to have and or verify or amend. And yes that is actual paperwork, such as the certificates in the plane, but also for instance the maintenance log. (I should have mentioned that in the pre-flight) You need to check the aircraft maintenance log to see if there have been any issues reported during earlier flights. At the end of the flight you need to report any problems and sign off.

Another thing to note down: The so called Hobs meter. It shows the number of engine hours. It is an important parameter to note down before and after your flight. It is used to calculate pilot’s flight hours, but also engine maintenance depends on the Hobbs hours.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbs_meter

Just as an example on one of the standard pieces of paperwork some pages from my early flying days in my logbook. These two pages would be side by side. So the first line on the second page belongs to the first line on the first page.

You need to fill all of this out at the end of each flight. There is a mandatory requirement on all pilots to keep a personal logbook. The format is not prescribed. Some use electronic formats these days.




You need to record all these different parameters as they all are relevant for the various certificates and their respective validity. So not just flight hours are relevant. But also whether I was flying as Pilot in Command. Whether it was conducted during Day or Night, IMC. . (Remember I mentioned in my pre-flight that you need to check whether you are allowed to perform night landings with passengers? My logbook is the place to look!)

This is still early on in my flying days. You see the first flight on 28/8 is what is known as my Third Solo, Touch and go. As part of your PPL training, long before you do your formal check ride and get your PPL if you pass, you get to fly solo!!

I also executed a few Touch and Go (2). This is where you land the plane on the runway but do not slow down, but take off again. Early on in your career you will spend many, many hours doing circuits and doing endless touch and go. It teaches you the basic skill needed to fly an aircraft and you get a lot of take off and landings into a relative short space of time.

As part of the PPL curriculum you need to execute several cross country solo trips. You will prepare these with your instructor, he will check your preparation, give some last minute advice and off you go!

The second line shows one of my obligatory Cross Country (X-C) flights. You can see I spend 3.5 hours during Day time. You can also see that the total time is split into 1.7 dual received and 1.9 as pilot in command. What happened is that first we flew this cross country flight with my instructor next to me. That is logged as dual received. Then we landed, talked everything through, replaced and I did the same flight all by myself, that is logged as the Pilot in Command.

Jeroen

[Thad E Ginathom]

An aside...

Originally Posted by Jeroen

For most of my time in the USA, New Century AirCentre was my home base

Have a look:

https://www.airnav.com/airport/KIXD

The position puzzled me

Lat/Long: 38-49-51.3000N / 094-53-25.1000W
38-49.855000N / 094-53.418333W

How do you read, eg "38-49-51.3000N?" Is it degrees, minutes, seconds and decimal... or what?

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

A
The position puzzled meHow do you read, eg "38-49-51.3000N?" Is it degrees, minutes, seconds and decimal... or what?

the chart shows three different sets of numbers for the same location:

Lat/Long: 38-49-51.3000N / 094-53-25.1000W
38-49.855000N / 094-53.418333W
38.8309167 / -94.8903056
(estimated)

The first one is DMS (degree, Minutes, Seconds) and the last bit reads as 51.3 seconds.

The second one is DDM (Degrees and Decimal minutes) e.g. the 49.855

The last one is DD (Decimal Degrees): e.g 38.8309167

Obviously, the above is also a descending order of accuracy.

Have a look here:

https://www.ubergizmo.com/how-to/read-gps-coordinates/

Truth be told, these days, especially with GPS based navigation it is very rare to use the actual Lat/Long numbers of any point. Nearly every useful navigational point is identified with a name made up of several letters. Look it up on your paper chart or your GPS and you will never know what Lat/Long coordinates go with it!

Two weeks from now I am attending a two day workshop in Celestial Navigation. Just in case GPS stops altogether. Making sure I can still use my old trusted sextant! Definitely hard core old school navigation and I will be needing to brush up my skills on Lats and Long!

(https://www.news.com.au/technology/i...6d59ffba439242)

Jeroen

[Thad E Ginathom]

Thanks, Jeroen. I'm aware of the basics, having once been fairly intimate with marine charts, and also know roughly where I live, for reading weather charts (Just short of 13N!).

All I ever did is properly known as pilotage, rather than navigation. ie, coastal stuff. I'm sure you'll enjoy the course, and I'm sure you still have good sextant skills.

[kovilkalai]

Nice article, Jeroen! Brought back fond and not-so-fond memories of my flight training. I had two not-so-nice experiences relating to poor pre-flight planning and not paying attention during my flight training days.

The first was when I didn't pick up the ATC warning on gusty winds when I was given the clearance to land. Fortunately, my instructor was able to jump in and save the day when I suddenly stalled during the flare.

The second one was dicier. It was during my solo flights. I glossed over my pre-flight checks and missed a malfunctioning airspeed indicator. The problem was that the airspeed displayed was about 20-30 knots higher than what it should have been. For beginners who need the airspeed indicator to land properly, this was a big problem. And I caught the problem halfway to my destination (KPWK to KUGN). I decided to continue to my destination (another screw up). Fortunately, I had the presence of mind to request the longest runway, flew in faster than usual, floated over half the runway and landed safely. Got an earful from my instructor that day!

Anyway, I never did get my PPL because I moved out of Chicago and moved to India soon after. I would like to go back up on my own once again. Some of my best experiences were flying over the Lakeshore on July 4th (fireworks from above), landing at Chicago Midway and Milwaukee airports (both class C). At MDW, there was a Southwest B737 on approach on a parallel runway. One of the coolest sights I have seen!

[aashishnb]

Was watching Freefall movie on Amazon Prime yesterday - was on a real life incident where instead of 10k kilos, 10k pounds of fuel was filled and the aircraft had to do an emergency landing when the fuel was empty. A must watch.
This thread reiterates the requirement for a thorough check pre-flight. Very interesting and educative Jeroen. Thank you for sharing.

[honeybee]

Do you think flying could become a convenient commuting option, @Jeroen?

It is one thing to fly a small plane as a hobby, but do you ever see people taking to these planes like for cars, maybe?

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by kovilkalai

Brought back fond and not-so-fond memories of my flight training. I had two not-so-nice experiences relating to poor pre-flight planning and not paying attention during my flight training days.

Anyway, I never did get my PPL because I moved out of Chicago and moved to India soon after. I would like to go back up on my own once again. Some of my best experiences were flying over the Lakeshore on July 4th (fireworks from above), landing at Chicago Midway and Milwaukee airports (both class C). At MDW, there was a Southwest B737 on approach on a parallel runway. One of the coolest sights I have seen!

Every pilot has some heart stopping moments during their career. Hopefully less as you build hours. But those first few scary moments you never forget.

I had several. The very first one: I was still a student pilot, with my instructor next to me. We were landing at a non-towered airport. I flew the circuit correctly, my radio call outs were text book. We were on final and we were crossing the runway threshold. All of sudden my instructor called: I HAVE CONTROL. Which means he has taken control of the aircraft. I acknowledged: YOU HAVE CONTROL.

Some idiot was on final from the opposite site of the airfield on the same runway. He had not made any radio call outs and he was landing with a tail wind. I was so focussed on landing (bad case of tunnel vision) I never spotted him. But my instructor did. So he took control and we went around. We tried calling him, but he never responded. We called the FBO to ask the pilot to wait for us. But the guy landed, parked his plane and ran off. So we filed a complaint with the FAA. Very poor airmanship.

But it did leave me quite rattled. I had been so focussed at the task at hand, landing, focussing on the threshold, my touch down point, juggling the flight controls and the power. I forgot to keep an eye on the rest of the world!

The second time was a couple of years later. I had become friendly with a guy I had met at the local Jaguar Club. He owned his own business and he owned a little twin engine Beechcraft. He used to fly all over the states, visiting his offices and customers. He often asked me to come along. I did not have a twin rating, but I could still fly the plane with him in command. We got on well, so it was a good arrangement.

One day we were flying back from the east coast. Our last fuel stop before Kansas City was somewhere near St Louis. We landed and whilst we were still on the runway the tower told us to taxi to a very specific point on the ramp. I told them, we were familiar with the airport and we wanted to go to a specific FBO and get fuel from him.

Next, the tower tells us it is not a request. “Certain law enforcement people” wanted to talk to us! So we taxied to where we were told. The place looked like a scene from the Blues Brothers. There were a whole bunch of cop cars, blue lights on and even more cops with guns pointing at us. We parked and shut down the engine. One cop had a loudhailer and shouted: Passenger, put your hands in the air and exit the airplane.

By this time, my (casual) friend and me were eying each other up?! *** is going on, what did you get me into.

Long story short; they had received an anonymous tip that we were carrying drugs. It took us quite some time to figure that out. So we finally managed to get the cops to tell us the tip had mentioned specifically a Cessna airplane. So we told them: Why the f**k are you bothering us. This ain’t no Cessna, you blithering idiots (or words to that effect). Anyway, after a few hours they let us go, no apologies offered. Having a few dozen cops pointing guns at you is no picnic, let me tell you!

Originally Posted by aashishnb

Was watching Freefall movie on Amazon Prime yesterday - was on a real life incident where instead of 10k kilos, 10k pounds of fuel was filled and the aircraft had to do an emergency landing when the fuel was empty. A must watch.
This thread reiterates the requirement for a thorough check pre-flight. Very interesting and educative Jeroen. Thank you for sharing.

Unfortunately, it is not the first time that happened. Lethal outcome!

Originally Posted by honeybee

Do you think flying could become a convenient commuting option

I know quite a few people who own their own plane and use it to visit friends or family. Quite a few have businesses and they use their own plane to visit their various branches. I know a guy who had some 30 barber shops all over the States. He owned a brand new Cirrus (about $ 750.000 then) and he would spend every week flying from one location to the next.

Originally Posted by honeybee

It is one thing to fly a small plane as a hobby, but do you ever see people taking to these planes like for cars, maybe?

Honestly, not in my life time. I’m 59 so statistically that would be not for another 25 years at least.

Flight school and companies such as Cirrus and Cessna like to make you think that flying is as easy as driving a car. It is not. It requires a lot more effort and practice.

Unless we get a lot more automation in flying and air traffic control it just is not going to happen. Other than the technology it will require a massive chance of legislation. And aviation legislation the world all over is not easy to change. Takes a lot of time. Small steps at at time too. So I don’t see it happening anytime soon.

As I pointed out earlier, there are some current owners/pilots who will rather fly than drive. But when all is said and done, they are a minority. And they will fly because they enjoy flying more than driving, no matter the cost or the time.

Jeroen

[aashishnb]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Unfortunately, it is not the first time that happened. Lethal outcome!

Jeroen

In this case, apparently everyone survived. They glided their way down.

However, they said everyone who did the scenario on simulator went into free fall & crashed in the first round.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by aashishnb

. They glided their way down.
.

Some sobering statistics on jet airliners gliding down. Quite a few due to fuel starvation because of simple errors!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...quired_gliding

Every pilot, as part of their PPL curriculum needs to demonstrate the ability to land a plane without engine power. As you master more complex plane, all the way up to the big commercial liners, you will need to be able to glide it home!

During your check ride, the FAA instructor at some point in time, will close the throttle and will call out: Engine Failure!

You will need to demonstrate the correct procedure, ensure optimal glide plath configuration and attitude, run through the various check list items, communicate to ATC, find a suitable landing spot, announce the spot and manoeuvre the plane into such a position the FAA instructor is satisfied that you should be able to land safely. Which means you need to get the speed and altitude correct compared to where you want to land.

Depends a bit on the instructor but usually they will let you get down to almost 500 feet of the ground, before they are satisfied and allow you to pour back the power in. (Obviously, if they are not satisfied, they might take control or tell you you failed)

All planes (well nearly all) glide. Putting down your plane without engines is a standard scenario that all pilots will train for. As long as you have a suitable runway within gliding distance it should be possible.

On many jet airliners, when the engines fail, most electrical and hydraulic system will still work to some or even large extend. Big turbofan jet engines are actually quite handy in these circumstances. The fan will still turn due to the airstream going through the engine. On a 747-400 more than sufficient to power the hydraulics for instance.

Some jets have a so called RAT (Ram Air Turbine). Essentially a propellor driven hydraulic pump that drops out of the fuselage when the engine fails.

Check out this thread where you fill see an image of the RAT on the Concorde:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/comme...simulator.html (Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator)

Even so, gliding no matter which plane is real “seat of the pants” stuff. Whereas you might still have a decent level of flight control, none of your fancy glass cockpit instruments is going to give you much help. It is all about visuals and reading many clues and TLAR (That Looks About Right)

Famous Captain “Sullenberger and his co-pilot Skiles had spades of TLAR between them when they managed to successfully ditch in the Hudson

https://www.flyingmag.com/why-learni...r-is-important

Trying to put a plane down somewhere specific (e.g. a runway, a road, a spot on the river) is all about energy management. You trade altitude for forward speed. Obviously, without engines the plane is always going down. But the pilot needs to decide how steep, how to make the turns, figure out the wind direction and strength (big factor!). Being a little high and fast is not a big issue. There are certain manoeuvres that allow you to slow down and lose altitude without building up speed. (Flying S-curves, forward slip, using flaps (if still operable). But if you find yourself to low to slow, without an engine you will run out of options very quickly.


Jeroen

[Jeroen]

[quote=Jeroen;4498556]Some sobering statistics on jet airliners gliding down. Quite a few due to fuel starvation because of simple errors!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...quired_gliding

Every pilot, as part of their PPL curriculum needs to demonstrate the ability to land a plane without engine power. As you master more complex plane, all the way up to the big commercial liners, you will need to be able to glide it home!

During your check ride, the FAA instructor at some point in time, will close the throttle and will call out: Engine Failure!

You will need to demonstrate the correct procedure, ensure optimal glide plath configuration and attitude, run through the various check list items, communicate to ATC, find a suitable landing spot, announce the spot and manoeuvre the plane into such a position the FAA instructor is satisfied that you should be able to land safely. Which means you need to get the speed and altitude correct compared to where you want to land.

Depends a bit on the instructor but usually they will let you get down to almost 500 feet of the ground, before they are satisfied and allow you to pour back the power in. (Obviously, if they are not satisfied, they might take control or tell you you failed)

All planes (well nearly all) glide. Putting down your plane without engines is a standard scenario that all pilots will train for. As long as you have a suitable runway within gliding distance it should be possible.

On many jet airliners, when the engines fail, most electrical and hydraulic system will still work to some or even large extend. Big turbofan jet engines are actually quite handy in these circumstances. The fan will still turn due to the airstream going through the engine. On a 747-400 more than sufficient to power the hydraulics for instance.

Some jets have a so called RAT (Ram Air Turbine). Essentially a propellor driven hydraulic pump that drops out of the fuselage when the engine fails.

Check out this thread where you fill see an image of the RAT on the Concorde:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/comme...simulator.html (Experience: British Airways Concorde Simulator)

Even so, gliding no matter which plane is real “seat of the pants” stuff. Whereas you might still have a decent level of flight control, none of your fancy glass cockpit instruments is going to give you much help. It is all about visuals and reading many clues and TLAR (That Looks About Right)

Famous Captain “Sullenberger and his co-pilot Skiles had spades of TLAR between them when they managed to successfully ditch in the Hudson

https://www.flyingmag.com/why-learni...r-is-important

Trying to put a plane down somewhere specific (e.g. a runway, a road, a spot on the river) is all about energy management. You trade altitude for forward speed. Obviously, without engines the plane is always going down. But the pilot needs to decide how steep, how to make the turns, figure out the wind direction and strength (big factor!). Being a little high and fast is not a big issue. There are certain manoeuvres that allow you to slow down and lose altitude without building up speed. (Flying S-curves, forward slip, using flaps (if still operable). But if you find yourself to low to slow, without an engine you will run out of options very quickly.

On propellor planes an engine out scenario is typically simulated by pulling the engine to idle. Not by cutting the engine out all together. But there is a noticeable difference in performance. With the engine still idling the propellor is effectively working as a air brake. With the engine cut off you get a markable difference as shown in this video. This guy uses a side slip to descent and get his speed under control. A side slip is where you will use opposite rudder to normal aileron deflections, so the aircraft starts to crab. You see him releasing the side slip very close to the runway, the aircraft nose till that point has been off centre from the runway, then all it suddens it aligns as he takes out the side slip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVz7CR6ZYVk

Jeroen

[AirbusCapt]

Originally Posted by aashishnb

In this case, apparently everyone survived. They glided their way down.

However, they said everyone who did the scenario on simulator went into free fall & crashed in the first round.

Interesting fact. In a jet aircraft a good descent is idle thrust descent. It means, from the top of descent point, your engines are idling and the airplane is merely gliding down, until you establish on the ils with your landing gear down (say 6 miles to touchdown). A propeller airplane always needs power on descent, with the airspeed fixed.
Gliding down a jet airplane is not as difficult as it sounds, you practically do it everyday, however with no fuel, your options to go around or divert is zero, you are 100% committed to land at your chosen point.