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Old 20th August 2020, 14:09   #511
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max crashes and grounding

Boeing’s answer to the Max problems; Revert to the original factory designation of 737-8 and drop the Max label:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...land-enter-air

In all honesty, the Guardian seems to be making a somewhat bigger thing of it, but then again that’s the Guardian business. What must be obvious that neither Boeing nor any carrier are very keen to keep using the Max name for obvious reasons. Irrespective what they would do, rename, rebadge, rebrand or leave it as it is, it is likely to get press attention.

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Last edited by Jeroen : 20th August 2020 at 14:12.
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Old 20th August 2020, 14:20   #512
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max crashes and grounding

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Boeing’s answer to the Max problems; Revert to the original factory designation of 737-8 and drop the Max label:
Now if they were also car manufacturers they would know everything about all new/ refreshed/ facelift (not nosedive!) sticker jobs, and how to sell it to the public.

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Old 20th August 2020, 15:02   #513
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Remember Ralph Nader and his “unsafe at any speed” book.

We just need someone to come up with the book “unsafe at any altitude” I guess!

Surprised the Internet has not come up with that one!

It will be interesting if people will board a 737-8 / Max once re-certified. My guess is they will, with some exceptions, broadly spilled out on all social media.

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Old 16th September 2020, 16:45   #514
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The latest report on the 737 max saga. This time a congressional report in which both the Max and the FAA are being reviewed.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/16/p...ort/index.html

A few snaps:

Quote:
The report on the 18-month investigation, published Wednesday by the House Transportation Committee, charges in a new level of detail that the plane-maker intentionally downplayed the significance of the MCAS computerized flight-control system, which it concluded had led to "346 unnecessary deaths," including in a second crash a few months later.
The 246-page report goes into minute detail about the plane's design by Boeing and approval by the Federal Aviation Administration, and describes missed opportunities by the company to prevent the crashes. It details a litany of ways the plane-maker ensured that simulator training would not be required for many pilots -- which the House committee said makes the plane less safe.
Boeing responded to the report by saying it has incorporated feedback from multiple investigations and reviews into its redesign of the aircraft and that it has "learned many hard lessons as a company from the accidents."
Quote:
The report was also critical of the FAA's oversight of the company, which included a program approved by Congress that allows Boeing employees to sign off for the FAA on meeting certain safety standards. Transportation Committee Chairman Peter DeFazio of Oregon said Tuesday that he is working on legislation to change that system.
Investigators wrote that they had "documented several instances" of Boeing employees failing "to disclose important information to the FAA that could have enhanced the safety of the 737 MAX aircraft," including how the MCAS system was presented.
Boeing's focus on developing a plane that wouldn't require simulator training was to the detriment not only of the pilots but also of the aircraft's safety itself, the investigators said. For example, company officials rejected including a synthetic airspeed indicator in the cockpit because that new feature "may have jeopardized the no simulator training goal."
"The problem is it was compliant but not safe, and people died," DeFazio said. He believes the focus on avoiding simulator training "drove a whole lot of really bad decisions internally at Boeing."

Last edited by Jeroen : 16th September 2020 at 16:46.
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Old 16th September 2020, 17:28   #515
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The link to the full report:

https://transportation.house.gov/imo...%20Release.pdf
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Old 16th September 2020, 17:59   #516
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Default Re: Boeing 737 Max crashes and grounding

^^^
Between 'sensational popular press reports' (written by people who do not know anything about flying) and 'final official reports', where does this fall?

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Old 16th September 2020, 18:46   #517
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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
^^^
Between 'sensational popular press reports' (written by people who do not know anything about flying) and 'final official reports', where does this fall?
I have not read it all, just glanced through it. It is certainly a very lengthy report, the commission has interviewed a lot of people, looked at lots of articles that appeared in the general and aviation press.

To what extend people are experts remains to be seen. remarkable I see a lot of references to various reports that have appeared in various journals/media. Even articles in news-outlets.

So it appears to be a (almost random) but very extensive collection of interviews of various stakeholders, experts and bystanders.

If anything it does appear to be given a pretty detailled chronological overview on what happened around the design of the 737 MAX and the (lack of) oversight of the FAA.

It is very light on real technical details and I don’t see the commission digging into real technical issues at all. It refers numerous times to parts of interviews, or emails etc.

So I don’t think it is a very well thought out detailled investigations. It’s more a collection of a lot of stuff that happened, put in chronological order. The executive summary is 34 pages alone! So it does make for an interesting read I found.

It is not your typical accident investigations report. In my view it lacks detail insights and looses itself too much in general stuff. Although some reference is made to more detailled report.

It is certainly a lot more and more thorough than a sensational popular press report. I am not quite sure how much weight is/will be attached to this report by Boeing and or FAA. Will be interesting to see how / if it is followed up at all.

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Old 16th September 2020, 20:05   #518
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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
If anything it does appear to be given a pretty detailled chronological overview on what happened around the design of the 737 MAX and the (lack of) oversight of the FAA.

...

I am not quite sure how much weight is/will be attached to this report by Boeing and or FAA. Will be interesting to see how / if it is followed up at all.
If laws are going to be changed because of this report, Boeing and FAA can't afford being nonchalant.

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Old 16th September 2020, 20:56   #519
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The introduction of this report:

Quote:
This report concludes the U.S. House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure’s 18- month long investigation of the design, development, and certification of the 737 MAX aircraft, and related matters. The Committee’s investigation has revealed multiple missed opportunities that could have turned the trajectory of the MAX’s design and development toward a safer course due to flawed technical design criteria, faulty assumptions about pilot response times, and production pressures. The FAA also missed its own opportunities to change the direction of the 737 MAX based on its aviation safety mission. Boeing failed in its design and development of the MAX, and the FAA failed in its oversight of Boeing and its certification of the aircraft.
At the direction of Committee Chair Peter DeFazio and Subcommittee on Aviation Chair Rick Larsen, this report is being released to help inform the public’s understanding of what went so horrifically wrong and why. Despite the sweeping and substantive problems that have been identified by this Committee’s investigation as well as various other investigations, both Boeing and the FAA have suggested that the certification of the 737 MAX was compliant with FAA regulations. The fact that a compliant airplane suffered from two deadly crashes in less than five months is clear evidence that the current regulatory system is fundamentally flawed and needs to be repaired.
So the purpose of this report appears to be:

Quote:
this report is being released to help inform the public’s understanding of what went so horrifically wrong and why
This report doesn’t come with recommendations. What needs changing and how is left up to the legislators, the FAA and Boeing.

I have been trying to follow what is happening with the Max recertification and what reforms the FAA/Boeing is going to pursue. Not easy to get a real understanding what is going on.

Jeroen
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Old 18th September 2020, 15:52   #520
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I just came across the following on PPRUNE, which I thinks puts some perspective on how this report came about:

Quote:
About the political posture of the Committee report . . . all the work was done by "staff" (or very nearly all of it). But there are two types of staffers. One type consists of individuals whose jobs on Capitol Hill are tied to the Representative (in this case, or the Senator), and happen to get assigned to Committee or Subcommittee work for that particular office. Their experience and, where they possess it, expertise is found mostly in managing communications to and from their Congress(person) loyally and without deviation from the office's intended line of approach.

It is the other type of staffer who matters in the context of reports like this. Committees and Subcommittees develop their own separate rosters of staff, up to and including Chief Counsel. These are not quite career civil servants, but the best essentially do conform to that concept of the role.

The 737 MAX report released by the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee chairman and the Aviation Subcommittee chairman on the 16th is the work of the staff. While obviously the professional (more or less) Committee staffers have party allegiances, their work does tend to be heavily, well . . . professional. This having been said, the report is not endorsed by the Democratic members of the Committee or, presumably, by the professional staff who work with and on behalf of the current "minority".

Maybe I'll have a more thoroughly cynical view about this specific report once I have read it as if it had been produced in discovery by a party adverse to a client, but on present preliminary evidence, the often crazed polarization that dominates political life and public service in the U.S. did not infect the Committee professional staff into political cheap shots or litigation-fanning publicity stunts.
https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/...l#post10887028
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