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Old 20th March 2019, 17:10   #16
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Default Re: Army's T-72 tank spotted on public roads in Chennai

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Is it prudent to have ERA on a public accessible road/ or arena?

Where have we progressed re: Kanchan?

Regards
Sutripta


Probably this should become an optional feature (if not mandatory) in all the road cars to stop the cyclists, bikers and autowallahs from leaning, scraping, side swiping and/or for vandalists. It should be like those Citroen Aircross protective layers but explode like ERA.

some of the Ajeyas are being modernized off late to provide these creature comforts. Though the main aim of these updates have been on the Electronic warfare, networ centric upgrades and so on. These tanks even outperformed every other tank crew during the recent tank battle execises (2018) held in Russia until they broke down due to gearbox malfunction. Infact, so good that Indian Army was leading in points in the competition even ahead of the Russian tank crews.

Last edited by AlphaKilo : 20th March 2019 at 17:13. Reason: grammer
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Old 20th March 2019, 17:15   #17
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Default Re: Army's T-72 tank spotted on public roads in Chennai

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Originally Posted by locusjag View Post

Fun fact about Avadi for those who don't know already: Like the place called "Mhow" in North India is actually an abbreviation for "Military Headquarters of War", "Avadi" is an abbreviation for "Armed Vehicles and Ammunition Depot of India".

Actually they are bacronyms. The actual names are not derived out of the establishments, but been there before it.
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Old 20th March 2019, 17:29   #18
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Default Re: Army's T-72 tank spotted on public roads in Chennai

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Meanwhile, that 50 tonne tank mounted on tracked wheels would have ripped the road apart. We know what happens when a 10 tonne tracked excavator drives over tarred roads.
Depends on the road.

Rajpath is appropriately tarred to bear the weight of such vehicles during the parades that happen. Similarly, since the tank was at Avadi, which houses the Cantt, the road might have been similarly built.

Also, the driver was driving it with one track on the space beyond the left lane towards the bus stop thereby minimizing the damage.

Last edited by Zappo : 20th March 2019 at 19:02. Reason: Edited for readability.
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Old 20th March 2019, 17:45   #19
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Default Re: Army's T-72 tank spotted on public roads in Chennai

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Meanwhile, that 50 tonne tank mounted on tracked wheels would have ripped the road apart. We know what happens when a 10 tonne tracked excavator drives over tarred roads.
Probably that is the reason why it was driven on the left side where it was not tarred. We used to see some tanks in the beach road during the Republic day parade in 1980s. They would tar the surface within the week. And they drove on the same side so that any damage to the road is not over the entire width of the road.
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Old 20th March 2019, 18:10   #20
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Default Re: Army's T-72 tank spotted on public roads in Chennai

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Originally Posted by PetrolRider View Post
I bet, most of the western tanks must have been air conditioned. I read somewhere that, Russian machines are not built with creature comfort in mind. Anyway, if ERA and all can be added, why not an A/C unit?
Air conditioning in a ship or a tank is a hazard in war. When hit by a shell/missile it is a great fire hazard as the ventilation ducts and the blown air carry the fire to all corners of the tank/ship in quick time and feed oxygen to the fire. When a warship goes to action stations it is not uncommon for the air conditioning to be switched off for that time. Modern western tanks have started introducing air-con for the electronics first and crew second. The fire risk remains.

Talking of Russians not catering to basic ergonomic comforts -- in 1968 when the first Russian built warships the 'Petya' class anti-submarine frigates. The ships were very fast, packed with weapons and electronics, powered by gas turbines which were the zenith of modernity then but had only 1 toilet for 100 men!! Never a dull moment.

Thank you for your suggestion for a thread on battle tanks. I am no expert. Others like torquecurve know a lot more. My field was in aircrafts. But who knows. One day.

Last edited by V.Narayan : 20th March 2019 at 18:15.
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Old 20th March 2019, 18:19   #21
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Default Re: Army's T-72 tank spotted on public roads in Chennai

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Originally Posted by torquecurve View Post

The 72's while being old, are still very relevant in the battlefield.
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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
A battle tank is only as old as its sensors, weapon control electronics, defensive measures (e.g. ERA) and cannon shells.
When was the last time we actually had a need to use the tanks? I'm guessing a few decades ago? (71 maybe?). I guess this is more of a defense requirement than the need to actually use it on the field.

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I think Tanks, APC's and the like are something you must write about sir. Has been a pet project for me for a long time - but never had the chance.
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I am under the impression most of our readers would be fairly clued into tanks.
I probably echo a lot of bhpians; but I/we'd love to read more about tanks (Indian/global), if you can put some material on the forum.
Recently been into WW2 and war machinery; so this would be the cherry on the pie for me at least
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Old 20th March 2019, 18:32   #22
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Default Re: Army's T-72 tank spotted on public roads in Chennai

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When was the last time we actually had a need to use the tanks? I'm guessing a few decades ago? (71 maybe?). I guess this is more of a defense requirement than the need to actually use it on the field.
In actual war 1971. As a active deterrent in 2001-2002 in Operation Parakram. With a long border of plains and flat desert with a rogue state we cannot afford not to have a strong cavalry as a deterrent. If a hot war actually starts without battle tanks our Army will be fighting with its hands tied behind its back. With tanks you can be on the offensive and offense here is the best defense. It is easy to overlook that deterrent weapons play a role in ensuring a hot war doesn't start. Just like you lock your apartment even if you've never had a burglary.
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Old 20th March 2019, 21:14   #23
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Default Re: Army's T-72 tank spotted on public roads in Chennai

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Originally Posted by torquecurve View Post

Not that the ERA tiles will explode by a stone or rock impacting it. It needs a lot more force with a direct impact hitting it. The ERA's can also be defeated by 'tandem war head' rockets. These rockets have two war heads one which punches through the ERA tile the second impacting the tank.
The Kanchan composite armour is being used on the Arjun. There was mention that they have developed Kanchan 2 in the DRDO publication (will have to find it). This will also be used on the WhAP (Kestrel).
Sure ERA are for use against shaped charges and kinetic munitions and not stones. But if a bullet can set it off, the temptation for some lunatic to do so becomes great. An exploding ERA can do considerable damage to personnel near it and not protected by the tank.

Talking of damages, I think most damage to roads is caused when the tank turns.

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Sutripta
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Old 20th March 2019, 22:33   #24
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Default Re: Army's T-72 tank spotted on public roads in Chennai

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Sure ERA are for use against shaped charges and kinetic munitions and not stones. But if a bullet can set it off, the temptation for some lunatic to do so becomes great. An exploding ERA can do considerable damage to personnel near it and not protected by the tank.
ERA tiles do not get triggered by gunfire up to 14.7mm ie the upper reaches of a heavy machine gun. The most common heavy machine gun is the 12.7mm caliber. The type of explosive and fuse in ERA is designed to react against an incoming shell or HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank) missile. Some reports say it remains inert when hit by a small cannon caliber such as 20mm.
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Old 21st March 2019, 00:13   #25
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Default Re: Army's T-72 tank spotted on public roads in Chennai

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Sure ERA are for use against shaped charges and kinetic munitions and not stones. But if a bullet can set it off, the temptation for some lunatic to do so becomes great. An exploding ERA can do considerable damage to personnel near it and not protected by the tank
Please remember that the explosive component and detonator mechanism are not fit on the tank 24X7, they are only populated when moving onto active operational areas. What you see on the tank are just empty casings which will hold the E part of the ERA when required. So you can lay your fears to rest.
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Old 21st March 2019, 07:31   #26
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Default Re: Army's T-72 tank spotted on public roads in Chennai

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
In actual war 1971. As a active deterrent in 2001-2002 in Operation Parakram.
Yup, that's what I said - just a defense requirement (for the deterrent or similar purpose), and one among many levers to showcase our intent; and one that is losing importance compared to more nimble and immediate options.


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Just like you lock your apartment even if you've never had a burglary.
More like the aging chokidaar (/guard) who is most of the time found sleeping. In today's world with better locks, security dogs, alarms and whatnot, you really don't find a need for him; but you'd rather have one (sleeping) around than not having one.

Last edited by ninjatalli : 21st March 2019 at 07:40.
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Old 21st March 2019, 07:52   #27
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Default Re: Army's T-72 tank spotted on public roads in Chennai

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Yup, that's what I said - just a defense requirement (for the deterrent or similar purpose), and one among many levers to showcase our intent; and one that is losing importance compared to more nimble and immediate options.
If you are not from a military background then that could be a fair conclusion to draw. Allow me the add a fresh perspective. The highlighted phrase is an assumption. An active army like the Indian Army stays ready for a hundred eventualities that might occur. An opponent usually does not announce his chosen method or intention beforehand and if you are not ready then you are 10 years too late.

A pre-emptive strike or a commando action are the latest in public memory. However it does not mean those are the only tools needed. Think of an Army as a large hospital - it has to be equipped with medical instruments and medicines to cater to hundreds of possible diseases or injuries and patients with any one of those hundreds could get wheeled in any time 24/7. Just because heart surgeries and cancer are more common last 20 years does not allow the hospital to be not fully ready for say measles or polio or burns. Nimble operations are not new but yes with rogue states using non-state actors there use is becoming more frequent. The biggest worry our armoured corps gives to our westerly neighbor is that in few days we may reach Lahore (as we almost did in 1965) and if we really put our shoulder to the till in a little while longer knock on their capital - bear in mind 45 years ago with a much lower inventory we took over East Pakistan in 2 weeks.
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Old 21st March 2019, 12:36   #28
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Default Re: Army's T-72 tank spotted on public roads in Chennai

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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
Yup, that's what I said - just a defense requirement (for the deterrent or similar purpose), and one among many levers to showcase our intent; and one that is losing importance compared to more nimble and immediate options.



More like the aging chokidaar (/guard) who is most of the time found sleeping. In today's world with better locks, security dogs, alarms and whatnot, you really don't find a need for him; but you'd rather have one (sleeping) around than not having one.
Though Narayan Sir has already answered you, and may I say, it is in the nicest way here are some hard facts.
Not such a long time ago someone had said that with the advent of the missile, why do we need guns. In fact, some jets of that era were designed without any guns. And boy were they wrong.

A battle tank - is to put it simply - a moving armoured bunker which can carry a heavy gun to take down a building if needed. These are then backed up by APC's and Light Armoured Vehicles (BMP's /BRDM's) which carry a group of soldiers with a lighter weapon (typically a 30 mm cannon/ gun). All the 'high speed' agile vehicles you see like Apache's or Hind's can only be on station for a short time. Also they are vulnerable to surface to air missiles, guns, and light artillery.
A regiment of battle tanks can act as the head of the spear to break down the proverbial door. Then hold the fort till the boots on the ground hold the territory.

Also, there are certain types of terrain where only an MBT will operate, certain defenses which only an MBT will be able to penetrate. Importantly they are the most heavily armoured vehicles in most combat situations, can take hit after hit and still keep working. There were reports of T90's hit by as many as 5 RPGs during the recent conflicts and they still kept working. There is a video of an Abrams in Iraq (IIRC) that was hit by an AT missile but still was working - protected the crew and fired back!

Better locks - the smartest of locks can be broken by a dedicated thief. Most of these systems are 'passive' security. The CCTV footage of a burglary that has already happened does nothing to 'prevent' the burglary in the first place. A human guard - more often than not is also able to reason and predict based on suspicious movements. Teams of such 'chowkidars' can be a good deterrent to burglaries in most large housing societies. Of course, they shouldn't sleep - but that is up to you to not let him. Keep him motivated enough to work and be alert.

Why do you think the BSF still patrols the zero line between the border though we have advanced security systems including motion detectors, BFSR systems, NV cameras, perimetric alarm systems in place?

Also, do explain by what you mean by 'nimble' and immediate options.

Last edited by torquecurve : 21st March 2019 at 12:56.
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Old 21st March 2019, 14:25   #29
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Default Re: Army's T-72 tank spotted on public roads in Chennai

These must have been test tracks laid around Avadi for testing tracks. As the township around it expanded, these must have been encroached by civilian areas.
There's something similar in Pune where there's a 'tank road' near the CAFVD establishment.
The road is now surrounded by encroachments which have become permanent. Now they have a pilot vehicle clearing the track whenever a tank is being tested. The tanks on their test run are quite a sight!
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Old 21st March 2019, 15:13   #30
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Default Re: Army's T-72 tank spotted on public roads in Chennai

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
In actual war 1971. As a active deterrent in 2001-2002 in Operation Parakram. With a long border of plains and flat desert with a rogue state we cannot afford not to have a strong cavalry as a deterrent. If a hot war actually starts without battle tanks our Army will be fighting with its hands tied behind its back. With tanks you can be on the offensive and offense here is the best defense. It is easy to overlook that deterrent weapons play a role in ensuring a hot war doesn't start. Just like you lock your apartment even if you've never had a burglary.
THis may come as a bit of surprise, but there are tanks like the Vijayant and T55 that have officially been phased out by the IA. What this has meant in reality is that these tanks are no longer in service with the armoured Corps regiments like the Hodgsons, Skinners horse etc.


However, a small number of these "obsolete" tanks have been embedded with some cavalry regiments and deployed on the LOC. These tanks are used for accurate firing when field guns cant do the job and MMGs and mortars just wont cut it. SO technically, some tanks of IA are seeing hot action on a regular basis
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