Team-BHP > BHP India > Commercial Vehicles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th April 2019, 16:24   #46
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 286
Thanked: 386 Times
Default Re: How come the PSU banks are saving Jet Airways, but didn't do the same for Kingfisher?

An analysis in ET today on the Jet saga.

Link

Quote:
Naresh Goyal, who built an airline from nothing, left behind a lesson for entrepreneurs — no founder is bigger than the company he runs.
AltoLXI is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th April 2019, 22:09   #47
BHPian
 
Ithaca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: MH 43 // MH 46
Posts: 187
Thanked: 357 Times
Default Re: How come the PSU banks are saving Jet Airways, but didn't do the same for Kingfisher?

An excellent heartfelt article written by Vir Sanghvi on the Jet Saga
The Taste With Vir: Jet Airways and its sudden decline

Source: Vir Sanghvi Hindustan Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by AltoLXI View Post
An analysis in ET today on the Jet saga.
Link
This was one exhaustive article and learnt a lot reading this.
Thank you for posting this.
Ithaca is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd April 2019, 01:16   #48
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Bangalore,Coorg
Posts: 884
Thanked: 470 Times
Default Re: How come the PSU banks are saving Jet Airways, but didn't do the same for Kingfisher?

I know this sounds heartless, but I believe the government should not get involved in saving Jet Airways. In terms of the banks doing it, it should only be done if there is a clear business plan where infusing funds will lead to an increase in revenue/profit and help reduce the debt. If not, let Jet go bankrupt and salvage as much as possible from the assets.

Also, I see that Jet has given a petition to Arun Jaitley to help them. I understand why he even agreed to meet them (need to look politically correct, and election season), but I believe he should have rejected the request outright. Giving the employees hope that the Government will do something is not good for anybody involved.

Finally, the suggestions doing the rounds of merging Jet with other entities, especially Air India, is something to be avoided at all costs. The simple reason both Jet and Kingfisher failed is two-fold. They both acquired airlines that increased their debt (Sahara and Deccan) and they are both Full Service Carriers competing against Low Cost Carriers like Indigo and Spice.

I truly believe that letting them go bankrupt, even if it means unemployment of 25K Jet employees and higher airfares due to lesser competition, is the better alternative in the long run for the Indian economy.
pganapathy is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd April 2019, 10:11   #49
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 273
Thanked: 322 Times
Default Re: How come the PSU banks are saving Jet Airways, but didn't do the same for Kingfisher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
The only thing they possibly skipped asking for was a kidney as collateral (they'd probably settle for my first-born but I have no kids, ha!). shouldn't the standards for institutional lending be higher, not (apparently) lower or non-existent?
Your hilarious statement is so true. There seem to be different rules for the law abiding classes and the big bad ones.
This rings true in all walks of life.
fiestarry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2019, 22:48   #50
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 148
Thanked: 281 Times
Default Re: How come the PSU banks are saving Jet Airways, but didn't do the same for Kingfisher?

An unfortunate event. However, Jet Airways seemed to have always enjoyed good degree of political goodwill and strategic manipulation of aviation policies to suit them (and other possible beneficiaries). Possibly also a reason for the differential treatment to Goyal and Mallya?

Air India could be the next in line. At least a major restructuring might be in order. It has debts that would make KF + JA together look a bit respectable, insolvency wise!

I am curious to also know if the pay was delayed/withheld for the top management/executives as well? Or were they beneficiaries of additional bonuses as the JA went into bankruptcy?
Miyata is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 6th May 2019, 10:33   #51
BHPian
 
vivek95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Bombay/Belgaum
Posts: 380
Thanked: 683 Times
Default Re: How come the PSU banks are saving Jet Airways, but didn't do the same for Kingfisher?

Just happened to read this interesting article on HT on Jet airways. Not really sure how far it is true, but I firmly believe in "Karma"- what goes around, comes around !



Quote:
Now, 25 years later, the shoe is on the other foot. As Jet goes through its death throes, and Naresh Goyal fades into obscurity, their biggest hope is the Tata Group. And, as it withdraws from its prized slots and premium routes, one of the airlines working overtime to fill those is Vistara — a joint venture between the Tata Group and SIA. Tata Singapore Airlines Version 2.0.
Read more here -


https://m.hindustantimes.com/analysi...yxQAJ_amp.html
vivek95 is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2019, 00:38   #52
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Bangalore,Coorg
Posts: 884
Thanked: 470 Times
Default Re: How come the PSU banks are saving Jet Airways, but didn't do the same for Kingfisher?

Assuming this story of Jet and Tata's is true, I can't see the Tata group choosing to bail out Jet unless it goes into bankruptcy. Also, I cannot see why they would choose to take on another airline brand (they already are involved in Air Asia and Vistara), unless they follow the philosophy of the VAG group and have a different brand for a different market group.

Judging by the stories in the media, Jet looks like a goner. Nobody seems to be interested in investing, and their principal assets (landing rights and planes) seem to be disappearing before anybody can even consider an investment to save the airline.

It also looks like no investor is willing to take on the approximately $2 billion Jet owes banks and suppliers. They would rather wait for the airline to go into bankruptcy and then purchase the rights to the Jet name and start from scratch. Seems like the cheaper and perhaps easier alternative.
pganapathy is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2019, 07:43   #53
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Delhi-NCR
Posts: 1,829
Thanked: 13,081 Times
Default Re: How come the PSU banks are saving Jet Airways, but didn't do the same for Kingfisher?

@pganapathy, in my assessment nails the issue bang on in his lucid post above. The assets are the routes & landing rights plus the parking contracts followed in order by the hangar leases. For the rest - owned aircraft, leased aircraft rights, employees, spares there is no sane reason to pay a premium or what the accountants term goodwill - those can be cherry picked as is already happening. The 'name' value of an airline is the sum of intangibles of service quality rendered by its employees. When the employees and leadership are no longer there the intangible diminishes too. Further, our regulators for reasons lost in 1953 do not permit a taken over airline to be merged with the acquiring entity thus causing immense loss of synergy. All departments other than marketing, finance and legal have to be run in parallel!! This was in part the challenge Kingfisher faced with Deccan and Jet faced with Sahara. The Tata's are already struggling with what to do with Air Asia . They don't, IMHO, need another loss making headache.
V.Narayan is online now   (8) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2019, 16:32   #54
Senior - BHPian
 
hserus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,104
Thanked: 4,069 Times
Default Re: How come the PSU banks are saving Jet Airways, but didn't do the same for Kingfisher?

Spicejet seems to be leveraging the DGCA to take the lead in asset stripping Jet - the way Goyal allegedly used the DGCA to keep the Tatas out if the Indian airline market for a long time.

https://prime.economictimes.indiatim...-battle-indigo
hserus is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2019, 17:39   #55
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calcutta
Posts: 3,990
Thanked: 3,472 Times
Default Re: How come the PSU banks are saving Jet Airways, but didn't do the same for Kingfisher?

^^^
When Jet was in its death throes, and there was some discussion on why the govt. was taking a hands off approach, suddenly there were a couple of articles on how it was the proactive intervention of the govt. which saved Spice (when the Maran's were getting out/ trying to get out).
And then there was sudden silence on this aspect.

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by ajmat : 8th May 2019 at 10:54.
Sutripta is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2019, 12:28   #56
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bangalore-Nellore
Posts: 1,379
Thanked: 187 Times
Default Re: How come the PSU banks are saving Jet Airways, but didn't do the same for Kingfisher?

TWO MISTAKES MADE BY JET AIRWAYS:

Goyal decided to buy a mixed fleet of 10 wide-bodied Airbus A330 and Boeing 777 planes. Mixing in such a small fleet was impractical as it increased cost of resources. Also, Goyal decided to configure them “like palaces,” building in only 308 seats, much lower than the global standard of about 400. He lost a fourth of the potential revenue in the process, executives said.

Even when the configuration changed to 348 seats, Goyal insisted on retaining eight first class seats long after it ..

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/68930916.cms
Ramsagar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2019, 12:54   #57
BHPian
 
PapaBravo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: KOL-DEL-LKO
Posts: 553
Thanked: 2,127 Times
Default Re: How come the PSU banks are saving Jet Airways, but didn't do the same for Kingfisher?

There have been no refunds from Jet Airways for the flights. I am in the same boat and have around INR 1 lac stuck in airline. No news of refunds yet.

Source

Quote:
With close to a month now that Jet Airways has temporarily suspended its flight operations, many travel agents and passengers are still waiting for refunds.

The monthly domestic air traffic report of the Directorate General of Civil Aviation has revealed that the percentage of passenger complaints related to refunds this March was highest when compared to atleast 3 years since 2016.
PapaBravo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2019, 13:55   #58
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Back to Chndgrh
Posts: 3,152
Thanked: 6,697 Times
Default Re: How come the PSU banks are saving Jet Airways, but didn't do the same for Kingfisher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramsagar View Post
TWO MISTAKES MADE BY JET AIRWAYS:

Goyal decided to buy a mixed fleet of 10 wide-bodied Airbus A330 and Boeing 777 planes. Mixing in such a small fleet was impractical as it increased cost of resources. Also, Goyal decided to configure them “like palaces,” building in only 308 seats, Goyal insisted on retaining eight first class seats long after it
They did had reasonable success in the International Business class. First Class was only on few routes mostly to London and If I am not mistaken, there is a demand for those seats. I regularly used to fly Delhi - Toronto and their Business class was almost always full. Their services and the quality of food was always better from Mumbai then via Delhi and since last Year on the decline, many seats had problems when reclined to bed and I had learnt how to reset Their overseas routes were profitable as well as they had to compete with Global airlines only and the margins were better. I am not an expert but given the limited number of their Widebody fleet, I think it was manageable but Yes, it would have been easier if they had only one type of Aircraft. Perhaps they got better deals by keeping both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBravo View Post
There have been no refunds from Jet Airways for the flights. I am in the same boat and have around INR 1 lac stuck in airline. No news of refunds yet.
That's bad and I will say the Government should help on refunds from some of the money they collect as Taxes.
Turbanator is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2019, 13:59   #59
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,495
Thanked: 2,193 Times
Default Re: How come the PSU banks are saving Jet Airways, but didn't do the same for Kingfisher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
That's bad and I will say the Government should help on refunds from some of the money they collect as Taxes.
Are you saying tax money should be used to process Jet's refunds? That wouldn't go down well at all...
binand is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2019, 15:06   #60
Senior - BHPian
 
narayan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 2,970
Thanked: 1,638 Times
Default Re: How come the PSU banks are saving Jet Airways, but didn't do the same for Kingfisher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBravo View Post
There have been no refunds from Jet Airways for the flights. I am in the same boat and have around INR 1 lac stuck in airline. No news of refunds yet.
surprised they are not issuing refunds for cancelled flights. I have redeemed all my JETMILES over the past 1 month through their rewards store and had no issues ( was actually apprehensive about it ) . I hope they issue refunds soon and no penalise passengers who were still trying to use their services despite all the troubles.
narayan is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What if all tyre are of same specs, but not from same make? sups Modifications & Accessories 9 24th December 2010 16:34
Query: Will PSU banks like SBI be open on Election day tommorow in NCR? DCEite Shifting gears 6 29th November 2008 11:09
Same Profile, Same Make. But still difference in diameter. Possible? vrooooooom Tyre & Alloy wheel Section 34 13th August 2008 21:07


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 12:31.

Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks