[govigov]

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena...ranian-suburb/

If you guys have not yet read it, please do so. Bellingcat goes into detail on how they have come to this conclusion. Some of the most reputable sites agree with this conclusion. (plus some very interesting articles on their site)

[vamsi.kona]

I request the mods to change headline as it appears now on the homepage which says 'Boeing plane shot down by missile'. Given the fact that nothing conclusive has emerged from official investigation as yet, as a reputed forum, it would be wrong on our part to conclude the cause of the crash.

[skanchan95]

As per this link, Iran admits to have 'accidentally shot down' the Ukraine International 737.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nintentionally

I suppose the evidences available openly were just too much to just sweep under the carpet.

[RaviK]

Apparently, Iran seems to have admitted the accidental shoot down of passenger jet -

https://m.timesofindia.com/world/mid...w/73198586.cms

Edit: just realized a fellow BHPian has already posted this news

[saur95]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

As per this link, Iran admits to have 'accidentally shot down' the Ukraine International 737.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nintentionally
.

Originally Posted by RaviK

Apparently, Iran seems to have admitted the accidental shoot down of passenger jet -

https://m.timesofindia.com/world/mid...w/73198586.cms

A real tragedy and embarrassment. Perhaps why they immediately released a statement after bombing US air bases saying they won't escalate further? Sorry, going OT.

[airbus]

In conflict situations this kind of tragedy happens. RIP all passengers and crew members perished in this accident.

[VVN]

Pure shamelessness. The 'heart breaking emoji' by the Iranian FM was insulting. We simply cannot pass this off as collateral damage. Hate what humanity has come to with all the conflicts based on religion, border and possession of weapons.

[Old_Salt]

Politics: Poli a Latin word meaning many and tics meaning bloodsucking creatures.”
— Robin Williams

Was following the incident on CNN keenly as I also travel sometimes over this area, and saw millions gather during the Generals funeral possession. The whole country stood united against US. But with this self inflicted wound, killing own people, and saying it was accidental, they don't deserve any forgiveness. Rewind the whole incident one week and you will see who instigated it. Black box or no black box, lives are lost. Politics...

[BoneCollector]

There is supposedly a video showing the exact moment a SAM hit the aircraft.

https://youtu.be/M7r4VMTM2GE

Another one is from CCTV showing burning debris falling down on ground.

https://youtu.be/AxTSWScqhW0

There is blood on hands of Iran, wonder how they'll handle this.

[aim120]

Originally Posted by VVN

Pure shamelessness. The 'heart breaking emoji' by the Iranian FM was insulting. We simply cannot pass this off as collateral damage. Hate what humanity has come to with all the conflicts based on religion, border and possession of weapons.

You think Iran is bad. Iran airline in 1988 was shot down by US warship USS vincennes in Iranian territorial waters and the US didn't apologize for it. Worst still the warship captain got a medal.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-5d61de569ed8/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRJnumxuHwY

Only after the the 1988 incident did every Iranian started to hate US.

US is no saint, they are partly responsible for this. Wars = US weapons maker make money, Oil prices going up means US shale oil becomes competitive. These days the US doesn't even make an effort to hide the real reason why they go to wars, its OIL and in future its Raw materials needed to make batteries.
https://www.euronews.com/2019/11/21/...o-with-lithium


If we don't buy US weapons and choose cheaper better Russian SAMs, US threatens India with sanctions.


US will never allow anyone to challenge their super power status or its dollar (Libyan leader Gadaffi was taken down because he wanted an alternate to US dollar ). Now Libya is a failed state, the same would have happened in Syria but you can thank Russia which bombed the day lights of the terrorists, other wise ISIS would have had its caliphate.


The difference between the Syria/Russia and US is that the former two says any one with a gun who isn't from the military or law enforcement is a terrorists. US differentiates between good and bad terrorists, infact arms the so called good terrorists who eventually joined ISIS.

[JithinR]

Originally Posted by aim120

You think Iran is bad. Iran airline in 1988 was shot down by US warship USS vincennes in Iranian territorial waters and the US didn't apologize for it. Worst still the warship captain got a medal.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-5d61de569ed8/


Only after the the 1988 incident did every Iranian started to hate US.

US is no saint, they are partly responsible for this.

The difference between the Syria/Russia and US is that the former two says any one with a gun who isn't from the military or law enforcement is a terrorists. US differentiates between good and bad terrorists, infact arms the so called good terrorists who eventually joined ISIS.

Woah, easy sir. No need to get so easily riled up. I think he was pointing out that the Iranian's didn't admit to downing the plane even with some footage of the accident circulating on the internet within hours. Their initial refusal to work with other countries would also have pissed people off.

Even in the case of USS Vincennes, the cause for the incident was not just because 'U.S.A Bad!'. There are a lot of small errors that come together that cause such a catastrophic error to happen.

Every country in the world acts out of its own self interest even our great India. Since U.S.A has the capability to bully any country in the world they take the advantage to do so.

Russia/China would do the same (and in fact they seem to be going for such a posture slowly but surely). Though i admit that it is good that a lot more people are waking up to the dangers caused by uncontrolled capitalism.

Also, Iranian's started hating the U.S only after the 1988 shootdown. I am just be one of those pesky late Millennials but i think you are forgetting a little thing called the 'Islamic Revolution' or even much before that when CIA helped overthrow Mohammad Mossadegh.

[Pancham]

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

Slightly off topic remark.

It is a surreal feeling for me. My last India to USA trip involves flying directly from Dubai to US over Iran .

On the way to India.

My USA-India flight flew over Iran just a day before this incident happened. I can very well relate to what you are feeling. In fact I was feeling weird when the pilot announced we would flying over the region (because of US killing their leader and related unrest).

Al Jazeera reports that Iran unintentionally shot the plane down. Not sure how UK will react now. The world is becoming a strange place.

[VVN]

Originally Posted by aim120

You think Iran is bad. Iran airline in 1988 was shot down by US warship USS vincennes in Iranian territorial waters and the US didn't apologize for it. Worst still the warship captain got a medal.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-5d61de569ed8/

I wasn't specifically pointing to a country but humanity as a whole. This will most probably be passed off as Collateral damage with no repercussions just like MH17. Humans have become so engrossed in defending religion, borders, nationalism etc that we have completely forgotten the value of life.

[skanchan95]

Gentlemen, please avoid discussions that are bordering politics. It only leads to an ugly ending as examples and counter examples for arguments sake only lead to a never ending debate.

There have been many cases where civilians aircraft have been shot down unintentionally and at times intentionally as well. In the 70s, Israeli F-4 Phantoms shot down a Libyan Boeing 727 over the Sinai desert as it started off course because of navigational error. Then there was shootdown of KAL007 747 by a Soviet Su-15. Many such examples and reasons/circumstances of shootdown are much more complicated than one thinks. The pilots involved/Air Defence operators have to act swiftly under great stress and it is not easy. An accidental shootdown is a grave error. However, that does not mean nations are evil and do so purposefully.

This is a very painful addition to list of deaths of innocent civilians in airliner shootdown incidents.

A clear case of misidentification and lack of co-ordination between Iran's forces and organizations.

The guy who pressed the button to launch that 9M331 missile has to live with the guilt his entire life and it shows how little time a SAM operator has to make a decision.

The commander of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Aerospace Force said Saturday he informed authorities on Wednesday that a missile had downed the Ukrainian passenger plane.

Brigadier-General Amir-Ali Hajizadeh said at a press conference in Tehran that after he told senior IRGC members about it, the general staff of the Armed Forces formed its own investigative team, from which he was excluded.

Hajizadeh partially blamed the US for the downing of the plane, saying Iran was already on high alert following the US’s warning that it could target 52 sites in Iran, and amid rising tensions with the country.

He said the plane was shot down by a short-range missile and was misidentified as a cruise missile by an air defense operator.

The operator identified the plane as a cruise missile but was unable to contact the central air defense command to confirm it. So he had to choose between shooting it down or not, and he choose to do it, Hajizadeh said. The operator had 10 seconds to make a decision.

Hajizadeh accepted full responsibility for the incident and said once it became clear what had happened, he thought: “I wish I was dead.”

[aim120]

Originally Posted by JithinR

I think he was pointing out that the Iranian's didn't admit to downing the plane even with some footage of the accident circulating on the internet within hours. Their initial refusal to work with other countries would also have pissed people off.

It could well be, but according to RT news, Iranian military informed the government that they may have been responsible and the Iranian commander who was responsible wished he was dead. But they waited for the proper procedures to follow before announcing it.
https://www.rt.com/news/478011-irgc-...guilt-downing/

Originally Posted by JithinR

Also, Iranian's started hating the U.S only after the 1988 shootdown.

I think you need to read again what I posted, I said this caused "every Iranian" to hate US. I say this because I read that only after this incident did they started the infamous chant "death to ---" .

They also felt sorry for the US when it was attacked in 2001. Its is evident that Iran, for what ever reasons hates ISIS and Al qaeda.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-fr...eans-for-iran/

Originally Posted by JithinR

Every country in the world acts out of its own self interest even our great India. Since U.S.A has the capability to bully any country in the world they take the advantage to do so.

Russia/China would do the same (and in fact they seem to be going for such a posture slowly but surely). Though i admit that it is good that a lot more people are waking up to the dangers caused by uncontrolled capitalism.

100% Agree. But when you have more super powers, its keeps the balance of power in check. Just like how it keeps power in check of US Presidential powers vs US Congress vs US supreme court.
Sadly even that causes proxy war because Humans are super greedy.