[Arjun Bharadwaj]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

I would also fear loss of connectivity to small villages where we do not have a lot of rich people. The trains would either not stop there if the village is already on the route, or trains would simply get cancelled if that route is not profitable - thereby cutting off remote villages/tribes completely...

This is a very valid post.

That brings up a topic to debate - how much speed is really necessary/sustainable in general and how much benefit does it really provide common people apart from pure profits to companies? Sustainable commercially and also to the environment. Hope there is not too much improvement only for the sake of improvement.

Hope the decision makers are having these debates and weighing in pros and cons well.

[Carpainter]

Well everything has good as well as ill effects. Privatisation can be done in some sectors for better customer service etc but I feel railway is an essential service in our country. People from remote areas depend solely on rail network for travelling. The ultimate goal of any private player will be to earn profit which is quite obvious but the same can not be achieved by operating trains in many routes in India. Obviously these routes will be neglected or stopped altogether. Some will say not all trains are privatised but it's only about time. It would be foolish to think that the govt. will let private players run all the profitable routes while the govt. will give service where there is no income and hence lose money. Look at how desperate they are to sale AirIndia today. Ticket prices in 2 and 3 tier AC coaches may not change much or may not affect those who travel in them once in a while but fare will definitely increase for the economy classes and they will surely feel the pinch.


Add to that the railway as a lucrative and dependable employer of our country. At a time when unemployment and job losses are only going north, this will definitely have a much larger effect in our society. Gone will be the days when getting a job in the sector will mean a secured life. Most of the elementary jobs will be contractual which it already is. Job security will be a thing of the past. So it will be another good business avenue for the already billionaire businessmen and companies but not so for the people in general. It's only my personal opinion.

[MMinor]

I can’t wait for this to become reality fast. Loved traveling from London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly on Virgin Trains and was dreaming of the day that private trains would appear in India. Lets face it, we collectively, NOT individually, lack civic manners and you can see that culminating in railway stations and trains themselves. The overcrowded, poorly ventilated, personal space poaching, unhygienic lavatories, food from nightmarish pantries as an experience while charming on a short distance gets old really fast on a longer journey. I am happy to pay more if it means good hygiene and an on par user experience. Another plus? Lower carbon footprint than airplanes. I know all of this might sound elitist/classist. It perhaps is. I as a consumer make no apologies for wanting better experience and value for my money even if it means I spend more.

I read in comments above that small villages might get left out. I guess that too should be okay so long as these private trains don’t replace existing routes but augment where there is demand. May be in time private railways will have their own UDAN Scheme.

Elsewhere there was a comment on how government will charge only for the infrastructure. If the government takes a base price + percentage of ticket price then its a triple whammy for the government if GST is included.

The best part is, we know these trains are going to be damaged both inside and outside and you & me as taxpayers won’t have to pay a paisa to fix that.

You say privatisation, I say monetisation. Sure there are a lot of pitfalls. Yep there will be lobbies, yep there will be scams and everything else that ails us wherever a private entity/person interacts with the government in everyday life. Despite all of that this is progress.

[satishv1987]

The Railways is the lifeline of millions across the country. So complete privatization will be political suicide.

I foresee an approach where only the niche segments are partially privatized and the revenues from these are used to cross subsidize the operations in the other passenger segments. This is what has been happening with the goods segment.For decades, goods train fares have been kept high to allow the Railways to subsidize passenger fares. The haulage charges of goods trains are very high compared to road.

The IR will probably continue to own the tracks ,routes and maybe even the rolling stock. Operators will be allowed to run certain routes and a user fee will charged. My guess is only Tejas like trains will be privatized. Since these are niche segments, high fares are unlikely to be a deal breaker for passengers.

[vroom_vroom]

I would like to express my opinion on this.

For me, the privatization of Indian Railways is a good thing to happen. We can at least hope for better services and a better VFM. What is wrong in providing better services and infrastructure at a premium cost even if few people in the country can afford it? I think it's the right of every individual to get services as the money spent on them. I see the following benefits of privatizing trains in India:

1) This will increase the possibility of getting a confirm seat even at the last minute as more and more trains will be introduced
2) Better services/amenities on-board to make the travel comfortable
3) Higher cost means, only few can afford to travel in these trains, which essentially translates to less crowding and hopefully, better and educated travelers who value the services provided to them (I think, I read in the newspapers how Tejas train between Mumbai and Goa was vandalized on its maiden run)

I think, going forward, we should have different classification of services. This does not mean that cheaper services should be totally useless. Instead, there should be a minimum standard for these services. Additional value-added services could be added to the baseline at an additional cost for those who can afford them. Here in this case, in my mind, the baseline would be clean coaches, hygienic food and clean drinking water, clean toilets. These services/amenities should be provided on each and every train plying in India irrespective of whether it is Tejas or Shatabdi or Rajdhani express or a passenger train. Now add value-added services like air conditioning, reclining seats, packaged drinking water, etc. at an additional cost and provide them to those who can afford them.

Few members have raised concerns about villages getting neglected as these trains will not stop there. Again, in my opinion, we should have separate trains catering to shorter distances instead of stopping a train at each and every station. As an example, I like the Sampark Kranti train between Bangalore and Delhi or the concept of fast local and slow local trains on the Mumbai suburban rail network. This classification saves a lot of time especially for those traveling long distances. I am sure the lawmakers will not scrap the trains stopping at small villages even if it is just for the huge vote bank.

Last but not least, I hope, the government will continue cheaper trains and classes which are not only affordable across the strata but also provide the last mile connectivity to smaller villages and towns.

I would definitely not mind spending my hard-earned money for traveling in Tejas if it provides me with a comfortable travel experience at a slightly higher cost. I don't mind traveling on these trains for the sheer joy of traveling on a train.

[srini1785]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

I would also fear loss of connectivity to small villages where we do not have a lot of rich people.

How many villages depend only on rail services for connectivity?. Small villages are connected only by road transport ( buses / trucks ) for both passenger and goods. We are well accustomed to seeing deserted railway stations of villages en route intercity trains.

I don't know why many members are seeing this as a privatization drive. The roads that we drive on belong to the govt and yet we drive on them. Except for Kochi , almost all the airports belong to AAI and yet all private airlines use them. Ideally, railways should be owing only the tracks while everything on it ( including the station maintenance, signalling etc ) should be privatized. Smaller the bureaucracy, better for everyone.

[VKumar]

Why not take a rather simple approach where the business part is taken care of by the profit making sections, while it has to be a rule for private players to serve a few rural stations too.

See, the rural routes are any way loss making, put aside the cost of operating the entire train; on the small - deserted rural stations; which are given service by only passenger trains or EMUs, I doubt if the total ticket sales is enough to fund even the fuel consumption of a 186 liter (Yes, 1,86,000 cc) big bore diesel that powers a WDP, for it to stop, wait for 2 minutes and move ahead.

IR is not going to hand over all the highly profitable routes to the private players any way. But yes, if a private player is willing to join in and enjoy the party - they better do some social work too; just name it their 'Corporate Social Responsibility'.

[nishsingh]

I am not sure, but I remember reading somewhere that the privatisation will be for newer trains; the government doesn't intend to touch the older existing trains (at least for now).

My parents and I did travel Virgin rail from London to Edinburgh last year, and it was quite a pleasant experience. We travelled First class, had unlimited tea and snacks in the coach and also had access to the Virgin lounge at the station with a masseuse for those tired limbs!

If the privatisation of railways in India brings some of these benefits, it would be a massive plus. It doesn't have to be a lounge; instead, clean toilets and coaches will make a significant difference too.

[Stribog]

Originally Posted by naveenroy

So the death of Indian Railways begins.

I always equate such changes to the way things happen in this country. You privatize everything - leave the functioning of even government entities to private corporations. Corportations take over, brutally cut down on all avenues where they do not make profits. Oh well. Guess this government loves capitalism.

Telecom density in 2000 (the year before the radical reforms of Vajpayee in this sector) 1.49 phones / 100! Yes that is right, a full decade after Rajiv Gandhi's 'telecom revolution' only 2 (rounded up) Indians had access to phones out of a 100.

In 2009 it was 10, by 2012 it was 40 2015 it hit 60% and is now in the 75/100 mark. Of this BSNL has 10% market share and is BLEEDING!

India has some of the lowest data rates and all this is because of the private sector.

You look at ANY industry, and compare it to even the 90's and now and there is a literal world of a difference. Airlines? Check. Hotels? Check. Even road building via private contractors? Check. Do you think we should go back to the 1980's when TV's were manufactured only by state companies?

This constant demonising of the private sector must stop as must the glorifying of the govt sector.

Both has merits and demerits and should be approached neutrally.

Please also requesting you to keep political views out of this forum, it is one of the few left not tainted by useless discussions that degenerate into tutu mein mein fling fest free for alls. Let us keep it fun, clean and on topic.

[maddy42]

Originally Posted by VKumar

See, the rural routes are any way loss making, put aside the cost of operating the entire train; on the small - deserted rural stations; which are given service by only passenger trains or EMUs, I doubt if the total ticket sales is enough to fund even the fuel consumption of a 186 liter (Yes, 1,86,000 cc) big bore diesel that powers a WDP, for it to stop, wait for 2 minutes and move ahead.

IR is not going to hand over all the highly profitable routes to the private players any way. But yes, if a private player is willing to join in and enjoy the party - they better do some social work too; just name it their 'Corporate Social Responsibility'.

Railways have plans to electrify the complete network. This would reduce the diesel bills considerably!

The privatization is on existing routes but new trains being introduced. There definitely is going to be scams where the babus will favor the private operator and ensure no other train is introduced, but the railways have been a drain on the coffers for way too long, having a huge debt and not doing anything with the resources which existed. Routes were crowded with no investment in rail lines. An example is Mumbai - Blr takes 24 hours, but even a volvo takes 15 odd hours! When will this ever improve?

Lastly railway stations are being privatized which i support! Time to monetize existing resources!

Maddy

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by srini1785

How many villages depend only on rail services for connectivity?. Small villages are connected only by road transport ( buses / trucks ) for both passenger and goods. We are well accustomed to seeing deserted railway stations of villages en route intercity trains.

70% of India still lives in rural areas. Everything you say only makes me feel stronger about my point. Why are the villagers not using fast efficient rails? Why are the stations deserted? How can we connect and engage 70% of people in rural areas - so that they thrive in villages - not move to cities. These are questions for the Govt with a long term national interest to address. I certainly do not know the answers to these questions. I have never lived in a village. I only know that there is no rail connection to my village, and fast trains do not stop even at the district headquarters/town.

Also, I am not saying that privatization will not work. It can work if national priorities are held up in the face of outright profitability.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

70% of India still lives in rural areas. Everything you say only makes me feel stronger about my point. Why are the villagers not using fast efficient rails? Why are the stations deserted? How can we connect and engage 70% of people in rural areas - so that they thrive in villages - not move to cities. These are questions for the Govt with a long term national interest to address.

I've heard powerful men like Montek Singh Ahluwalia and Shashi Tharoor speak in our college (as they often do in B Schools, as "guest lecturers"). A common thread tying these men together is their intent to "get people out of the villages, out of agriculture and into the cities, into industries".

I've often heard that at the onset of the nascent Indian Republic, different leaders had different views on how the nation should take shape. The Mahatma, of course, had a rustic vision. Nehru's vision - which has ultimately prevailed - was more urban and industrial (but socialist and not capitalist).

In any case, we're looking at the baggage of 7 decades of trying to move more people into the cities. I do not understand the merits/demerits of this philosophy; I just know that this has been the intent all along.

[sandeepmohan]

I have not understood this private train concept of IR. Clearly; the existing ones are not owned or even operated by a private operator or contractor. The rolling stock and schedule are still owned/decided by Indian Railways. The only difference I see are the hostess on board and automatic doors. Is that all there is to it?

Does a private train get priority over Karnataka Express? What does it bring to the table? Do I get a ticket refund if the train is late? It feels like IR want to open up to the concept but not fully open up. I am not sure how that is a win for the system other than charging air fare rates. Sure; it brings profits but it is not changing or improving the experience for me as a passenger. I still have to deal with smelly bio toilets (Agreed; it has made a big difference) and rub shoulders with another passenger for 5 hours, after paying Rs. 3000 for a train ride.

Does the Bullet Train come under the Private Train banner? That is the one I am waiting for though the ticket cost for that is going to be north of Rs. 8 - 10k, for sure.

[mmxylorider]

Well - Privatization means a lot of things. UK rail system is run by private companies but regulated strongly and in-train amenities are not vastly better. That being said, I would rather to consider the following:

1. If pricing can be premium, the O&D demographics should be kept in mind. Mumbai-Delhi route is an example of premium route but that's also amongst the top-10 routes in terms of numbers of airline seats available daily. Will people pay for service when they can get to their destination faster?
2. That said, run these trains on single day turn-around routes, like the Shatabdis. There will a better supply and availability of good staff.

3. Lastly, even on routes that are not "premium", IR can always add a couple of coaches that are managed privately in terms of service inside.As it is, the rolling stock and schedule will be IR managed and the in-train service is the only aspect in control of private players, it might be a good pilot.

[satishv1987]

Originally Posted by Stribog

India has some of the lowest data rates and all this is because of the private sector.

Playing the devil's advocate here. There has been massive consolidation in the private telecom sector and today we have just 3 big players : Vodafone, Airtel and Jio. All the other smaller service providers have either gone bankrupt or have been acquired by the big 3.

Even Vodafone is seriously considering shutting down operations in India because of the hostile operating environment. By the looks of it, only Jio seems to be capable of weathering the storm. Will it end up being a monopoly ? You never know.

I am all for the government exiting from sectors where it should nt be in the first place - running airlines, hotels, catering etc etc.

But privatization comes with its own riders. We just do not have a robust regulatory framework in place which can prevent regulatory capture or rent seeking. In a sector which is as crucial as the Railways, the idea of complete privatization is dead on arrival. Partial withdrawal of the State might be feasible.