[sunishsamuel]

According to the latest news scroll it seems that an Indigo flight from Bangalore landed at the same airport almost two hours ago under similar conditions. The Indigo is an ATR while the Air India Flight is a Boeing. Agreed its not an apple to apple comparison. And seems like this airport had multiple skid incidents - Is this normal or abnormal ? If its abnormal then do DGCA/AAI have such slow turn around times to take action (be it the over "rubbery" surface or what not) ?

Till the blackbox details are retrieved and investigation concluded its difficult to conclude on the reason behind the unfortunate accident. Wish the crash was avoided or worst case we lost the plane but managed to save all the lives.

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Its a mishap, its a crisis. But people are desperate to show off about their writing and creative/imaginative skills. Already Root cause analysis posted on youtube/whatsapp and facebook by the keyboard warriors/experts.

Quite perplexing that media and some celebrities (I am really not sure if they have any clue of what happened during the last moments of the flight) writing too flowery passages on how the pilot saved the lives by switching off the engine and cutting off fuel supply, how he sang a song during an event (did they not even notice the obvious facial difference between the deceased pilot and the officer singing on stage ? ), why the airport needs to be shut down and some even taking religious and political sides even during this crisis. And whats amusing is people just blindly forwarding/sharing the same on social media without even reviewing what they are sharing !

Then on other side, too many whatsapp forwards on how risky/painful and unpredictable is the life of a NRI - especially the ones in Gulf - that every landing and take off is equal to a rebirth Its not as if you are going to the Gulf like compulsory Army service. Its a choice for a better life and everyone knows the risks associated with air travel - be it domestic or International. And I have lived life in India and abroad. Nothing is easy.

[Geo_Ipe]

... And our newspapers choose to publish it on page 1!

[dhanushmenon]

A very tragic incident that cast a very gloomy spell on whatever was left of the weekend. No one other than the two pilots and Flight Engineer (the three guys inside the cockpit) would know what exactly had happened. The FDR and CVR will throw more light into the event I am sure. However, before all those comes out, there are more experts it seems; at least from what I can gauge of whatsapp messages and media dissection.

There's much more than just tail winds that's involved in a landing. Let AAIB do their job and I would appeal all to not start speculating.

[binaiks]

Originally Posted by dhanushmenon

A very tragic incident that cast a very gloomy spell on whatever was left of the weekend. No one other than the two pilots and Flight Engineer (the three guys inside the cockpit) would know what exactly had happened. The FDR and CVR will throw more light into the event I am sure. However, before all those comes out, there are more experts it seems; at least from what I can gauge of whatsapp messages and media dissection.

There's much more than just tail winds that's involved in a landing. Let AAIB do their job and I would appeal all to not start speculating.

A B738 has only two people in the cockpit. Only the Pilot and Co-pilot are normally present in the cockpit of a B738.

[skanchan95]

A picture and a video grab apparently from the cockpit wreck of the aircraft.





Please do not speculate anything based on this picture and let is wait for the official report of the accident.

[fhdowntheline]

From the cockpit pictures, I noticed :

1) the flap position is at max- 40deg
2) the speed brake lever looks like its not raised.
3) Throttles are pushed forward ?? Did they try to get airborne as a last ditch effort and ran out of runway ? Could also explain point 2).

Sorry to be an armchair pilot in these circumstances.

[balenoed_]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

A picture and a video grab apparently from the cockpit wreck of the aircraft.

Disclaimer!: Not my post, I am just a copier. Saw it on a discussion forum of experts. Just sharing to here in the interest of people who know a thing or two about it.

It is clear that the forward thrust levers are at/near the forward stop (max thrust) and both reverse thrust levers are stowed. Both engine start levers also seem to be in the idle detent (engines running), from the angle the picture was taken. That throttle quadrant was set up for a max thrust go-around in panic mode (evident since the flap handle is still in flaps 30/40 whereas the standard go-around flaps setting of the -800 is flaps 15 (2 engines) or flaps 1 (1 engine inoperative). Also, the landing gear lever seems to be in the down position & the auto brake selector seems to be set at 3. For any non-pilots wondering, the speed brakes will auto-retract if the thrust levers are advanced after touchdown. That explains why the speed brakes & ground spoilers are stowed in the post crash images. Why they didn't go-around earlier, from this horribly unstable approach, I don't know.

[Jeroen]

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nat...244838062.html

The Air India Express jet that overshot the runway on Friday, killing at least 18 people, had touched down too far down the airstrip, the chief of India's aviation regulator said amid ongoing investigations.

Arun Kumar, director general for civil aviation, told CNN News-18 on Saturday that the plane landed about 3,000 feet into a 9,000 feet-long runway, causing it to breach a further 240-meter (787 feet) safety area at high speed and crash into a valley beyond.

"Looks like," Kumar said when asked by the TV channel if the incident seemed to be the result of bad judgment. "They should have landed before 1,000 feet, but they have landed more than 3,000 or so, exact numbers will come out from the flight data recorder."

[Gannu_1]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

I will never understand how there are always that many people who have nothing to do and will simply stand and gawk at an accident and its aftermath.

Hopefully this tweet will help you understand.

[AMG Power]

If you have had enough of wisdom by now, here's something different:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5se...ature=youtu.be

[GeneralJazz]

Originally Posted by Gannu_1

Hopefully this tweet will help you understand.

A wonderful gesture by Kerala Police.

In a special gesture on Sunday, Kerala police personnel went to quarantine centres housing civilians-- who had rushed to rescue injured passengers stuck inside the crashed Indian Express flight from Dubai at Karipur Airport on Friday night-- and gave them a salute, to honour their contribution in rescue and relief operations.

Link

But I guess when people hear the name Malappuram, they naturally assume the worst.

[aaggoswami]

Out of curiosity am asking the questions :

1. Its table top runway, but cant we plan and have a large sand pit to slow the plane down ? Agreed, it might break the landing gear and fuselage might be rendered useless, but it can reduce impact IMO. Please correct me if I am wrong here.

2. Post the sand pit or before that, can we design some large nets or something which might break down, but can slow the plane down ? Negatives could be the debris in case of a big crash being wrapped around in a heavy net.

3. Aircraft carriers have some cable system. Can similar concept be used passenger aircraft ? Passenger aircraft will definitely weigh more but if some speed reduction is achieved before the aircraft falls off and breaks down, the damage could be controlled.

[Jessierider]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

Out of curiosity am asking the questions :

1. Its table top runway, but cant we plan and have a large sand pit to slow the plane down ? Agreed, it might break the landing gear and fuselage might be rendered useless, but it can reduce impact IMO. Please correct me if I am wrong here-

2.Post the sand pit or before that, can we design some large nets or something which might break down, but can slow the plane down ? Negatives could be the debris in case of a big crash being wrapped around in a heavy net-

3. Aircraft carriers have some cable system. Can similar concept be used passenger aircraft ? Passenger aircraft will definitely weigh more but if some speed reduction is achieved before the aircraft falls off and breaks down, the damage could be controlled.

1. Its table top runway, but cant we plan and have a large sand pit to slow the plane down ? Agreed, it might break the landing gear and fuselage might be rendered useless, but it can reduce impact IMO. Please correct me if I am wrong here- There was an issue with land acquisition, hence extending the RESA, Runway End Safety Area was not possible. To circumvent this, the authorities reduced the overall length of the existing runway to make provisions for RESA instead of acquiring additional land at the tip of the runway. The issue with acquirind land boils down to profit and loss, land acquisition costs are too high in kerala in addition to risk of legal battles with agreived land owners. Calicut being an airport of limited financial opportunites decided to give that capex a miss( As told by a senior AAI staff who previously served at CCJ). Please note, even with the reduction in runway lenght, it was longer than the one at managlore and is enough to handle larger widebody jets as well.

2. Post the sand pit or before that, can we design some large nets or something which might break down, but can slow the plane down ? Negatives could be the debris in case of a big crash being wrapped around in a heavy net.- There are airports in india who use this safety feature. it can definitly reduce the speed of the plane if in the case the approach is too fast and reduce the over all damage but it cant bring a plane the size of B737 to a complete halt in case of a Karipur as its a dive post 240 meters. The best option is to extend the runway by acquiring land. It must be noted that the runway is long enough to safely handle such aircrafts and tabletops are not as bad as they are made out to be. There are far more dangerous runways and airports where similar plane operate with ease but it is better to be safe than sorry as is the case now

3. Aircraft carriers have some cable system. Can similar concept be used passenger aircraft ? Passenger aircraft will definitely weigh more but if some speed reduction is achieved before the aircraft falls off and breaks down, the damage could be controlled.That would be a scary propositions for the ones flying, imagine the G force on the passengers on landing. I have landed at Calicut twice, both the landing were unusually harsh( Perhaps due to the nature of Table tops). In addition, The situation is not as grim as its made out to be. The incident in Mangalore was pure pilot error due to fatigue, the plane would have gone up in flame on most of the airports in any part of the world as it fell into the gorge at high speed. If not for the gorge, it would have run into the Perimeter wall at most other airports or many of the buildings on the periphery of most airports. The cause in the case of IX 1344 is still unclear with a lot of information flying around in the media. Let the investigation finish. In my humble opinion, a better-maintained runway could have perhaps had a different effect on the runaway plane.

[deep4u]

This aircraft incident is an unfortunate incident and my heart goes with the family members of the deceased who were eagerly awaiting their homecoming.

I understand from the news that the pilot was one of the most experienced pilots of Air India. I believe that while trying to land the plane, the pilot overshot the landing point and he was trying to bring up the plane, very similar to the Mangalore incident. How much of an expert you are, it only takes a small mistake or miscalculation to cause an accident. On that same day, there may be many expert drivers who lost their lives because of similar misjudgments. However all media tried to whitewash the pilot, painting a picture of a hero who sacrificed his life to save others onboard, which is contrary to what happened. At the end of the day everyone of us do a job for a paycheck and there are risks associated with each job. It is sad that the pilots lost their lives.

I have seen many fighter planes equipped with parachute for limiting speed while landing. Can't we equip similar feature in passenger planes also to be used in emergency situations?

[Jessierider]

Originally Posted by deep4u

However all media tried to whitewash the pilot, painting a picture of a hero who sacrificed his life to save others onboard, which is contrary to what happened. At the end of the day everyone of us do a job for a paycheck and there are risks associated with each job. It is sad that the pilots lost their lives.

It is all but natural to praise a person or paint a picture of a hero of a person on the face of an incident like this where he lost his life but majority of his passengers are safe. Its early days of the investigation to put all the blame on the pilot and wash our hands off. There were many more things at play here and on a daily basis new and vital information are being revealed, some information which has even changed the preexisting narative on its head

In my view, until proven otherwise, Capt. Deepak Sathe and FO Akhilesh Kumar are heros, not because one among them was a decorated Air Force Pilot but because they deserve the benefit of the doubt that a fully loaded aircraft with fuel came hurtling down a 40 feet slope, disintegrated into three pieces but somehow did not catch fire. Some might argue that it was the rain that did not let s fire ignite. Perhaps, it is true, perhaps the pilots were at fault but I would like to believe until the final investigation report is available to the general public that the men who lost their lives had a part to play in that and saved 171 lives in the process.