[ABHI_1512]

Originally Posted by Hayek

Quite tragic that General Rawat, Mrs Rawat, the crew and the other officers and soldiers on board are no more. I do hope there is a thorough enquiry, the results are made public, and action is taken based on the same.

From what I know, for someone like the CDS, only the best choppers, manned by the best crew would be used. I also assume that there would have been adequate checks to avoid any form of sabotage (after all, the CDS should have the highest security after the PM, President and perhaps the top 2-3 ministers). Without jumping to conclusions, I just wanted to flag a conversation I had with a retired chopper pilot - he told me the thing he hated most about his job was when he had to fly VVIPs? Why? Because he often had to operate with a lower margin of safety than he felt comfortable doing. Hope that is not the case here.

I may not have liked all of Gen Rawat’s comments esp of political matters. But he was a PVSM - and that is not given lightly or by rank. A salute to you sir - May your soul and that of the others that passed away attain Moksha.

Concur with each and every word you said, any high profile accident is bound to raise eyebrows but the actual investigation results mostly never come out in public domain.

Some years back the then Arunachal Pradesh Chief Minister Dorjee Khandu also lost his life in a helicopter crash over Tawang. The investigation following the same blamed poor weather for the crash but here the weather is said to be mostly clear. Just as you said, almost all chopper pilots are very wary of ferrying VIP’s since the margin of safety is very low. I really hope that the thorough investigation is done and the results made public.

Prayers for the departed souls, it’s a tragic way to bid farewell to a decorated soldier and the other passengers.

[V.Narayan]

The helicopter was flying in mountainous terrain climbing from Sulur at ~1100 feet to Wellington at ~6000 feet through the Nilgiris. Winter time with fog dominating that region. It is a risky combination. Very sad.

A helicopter flight is significantly more risky than a commercial plane one for many reasons:-

1. Helicopters by definition fly close to the ground - typically somewhere between 500 to 3000 feet above ground level. If something were to go wrong the pilot has far less time to react and take action as compared to a jet liner cruising at 450 knots at 36,000 feet. The chopper pilot has about 2 minutes versus 10 to 15 minutes in the hands of a jetliner.

2. By definition helicopters go where aircraft can't - oil rigs, mountain tops, ships at sea, restricted areas, etc. That definition by itself puts them at greater risk.

3. Being closer to the ground a chopper experiences sudden wind turbulence and down drafts with little margin to spare.

4. A helicopter is mechanically a more complex machine than an aircraft. The turboshaft engines coupled to a large gearbox in turn coupled to a large slow turning rotor where each blade changes angles literally in each quadrant of its rotational circle etc make a chopper more prone to engineering risk than an aircraft. In an aircraft the wings provide the lift and the engines the forward speed. In a helicopter both functions are performed by the main rotor blades simultaneously.

To a point raised by member @SierraBravo - the Mi-17 V5 is a very rugged helicopter as is the Dhruv. One can't say one is tough while the other is not. I have worked on both machines and can say this for sure. Toughness in a chopper where every kilo of weight saved is precious is achieved like crash worthiness in a car - through clever engineering and not thickness of metal as in a battle tank.

To the point raised by @SPIKE ARRESTOR - If a chopper loses all engine power then within certain flight parameters of forward speed and altitude it can rotor down to the ground with its main rotor acting simultaneously as a brake and a lift generator -called auto-rotation. I'm not sure helicopter crashes are more fatal than aircraft ones. I don't have the data to determine that. In India it might seem so because every few years a VIP politician dies in a chopper crash. That is so because some of our politicians often bambozzle their civilian pilots to fly even in marginal weather because in India politicians are supreme. And the tragic results are there to see. No point guessing the cause of the crash till we hear more from the investigation. The primary and secondary causes could be so many that we can't sit and theorize like some of these TRP seeking journalists do.

[shancz]

Sad day for us.

In times like these I wish the mobile camera and smartphone were never invented.
Earlier it was just the TRP crowd making a mockery of any situation but today there are overwhelming number of idiots.

Will wait for the final report to come out.
Salute to the sacrifices of our heroes.

[lsjey]

A very sad day indeed for all of us. My prayers are with the family members of the braves who have died.

I do hope this incident is fully investigated, and issues if any are fixed.

Regards,
lsjey

[EV NXT]

Yesterday, someone I know, a regular visitor to Coonoor, started his return journey home from Coonoor at 5.30am. Within 30 minutes, he returned back to his starting point at Coonoor as he couldn’t drive because of the dense mist.

He is a regular, so the mist must have been pretty dense. The mist usually clears during the day however over the last week it has been pretty bad with mist almost all through the day.

Canceling the trip of the CDS because of the heavy mist may have been amongst the options suggested but given the reason for the visit, it may not have been accepted as a solution.

[EV NXT]

This is the landing spot for the DSSC in Wellington.

Have witnessed a helicopter carrying a Lt Gen (if I remember correctly) landing at Coonoor / Wellington. The location is the WGC golf course which is located right next to the Defence Services Staff College.

As you can see, even in bright daylight smoke signals were used so that the pilot can identify the landing location. Even with that it took some time for the pilot to identify the location.

I really don’t know how the landing location could have been made known to the pilot in the weather conditions that existed yesterday.

These were taken in 2012 and I had to go through my archives to dig it out.

The smoke signal sent out for the pilot to identify the landing location:

[tharian]

Footage of the chopper just before it crashed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVrCDTnf53E

[NiInJa]

Extremely saddening to read about the loss. May the departed souls rest in peace.

I have always wondered why in such cases (dense fog, extremely poor visibility and uneven terrain) it is decided to continue with the journey. The fog/cloud was so dense, wouldn't it be easier for a helicopter to just turn back to the landing zone?

[anjan_c2007]

General Rawat as Chief of the Army Staff was the chief guest and had flagged on the 21 Gun Salute International Vintage Car Rally in New Delhi in February 19th 2017.



The newslink:

https://www.prokerala.com/news//phot...17-215797.html

After he took over as the first ever Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) for all the three services in 2020, his car got a new flag that symbolised insignia of all the three services together. The official CDS' Maruti Ciaz with the new flag is seen in this news link :

https://english.lokmat.com/national/...ears-new-flag/

[digitalnirvana]

Terribly sad news. RIP. Its not a nice way to go.

I desperately wish our media and especially our educated populace would show some responsibility and restraint. Their pyres haven't even been lit and people are already flagging conspiracy theories, questioning his political allegiances and controversial decisions etc.

This is the headline (right below the demise news) of a so-called national newspaper who have hitched their masts firmly to a political party - https://www.telegraphindia.com/india...re/cid/1842528

There is a time and place for everything which is being forgotten. And we as a populace are becoming increasingly bereft of empathy. We are becoming a fractured society of us-vs-you across political lines, much like the USA. Does not bode well for the longer term.

[AjinkyaP]

Originally Posted by digitalnirvana

This is the headline (right below the demise news) of a so-called national newspaper who have hitched their masts firmly to a political party - https://www.telegraphindia.com/india...re/cid/1842528

I dont see anything wrong in this news article, they have just mentioned the facts, not opinions.
The post Gen. Rawat held was such,that there will be discussions on his career, decisions and political views.
Nothing unfair about it.

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by AjinkyaP

I dont see anything wrong in this news article, they have just mentioned the facts, not opinions.
The post Gen. Rawat held was such,that there will be discussions on his career, decisions and political views.
Nothing unfair about it.

To some, the manner of Rawat’s tragic passing on Wednesday may also be suggestive of bitter elemental irony.

This closing line in the article is a fact? Good to know. Thanks for enlightening me.

[DragonHawk]

RIP to one of the charismatic military personalities I have come across in my lifetime. He will be remembered forever.

Originally Posted by AjinkyaP

I dont see anything wrong in this news article, they have just mentioned the facts, not opinions.
The post Gen. Rawat held was such,that there will be discussions on his career, decisions and political views.
Nothing unfair about it.

Well everybody is free to express their opinions but highlighting what kind of views he possessed be it political or other during the time of his death, is the one last thing we as humans should be restraint from. Definitely, the timing of the article is wrong, that's what bhpian digitalnirvana tried to convey.

[sandeepmdas]

Originally Posted by Hayek

I just wanted to flag a conversation I had with a retired chopper pilot - he told me the thing he hated most about his job was when he had to fly VVIPs? Why? Because he often had to operate with a lower margin of safety than he felt comfortable doing. Hope that is not the case here.

" If the weather is misty and not conducive, the VVIPs are asked to travel by road. On Wednesday the weather was misty in Coonoor from morning and yet this chopper carrying Gen. Rawat was allowed to fly. An Inquiry is needed to know who gave clearance for the chopper to travel in the misty weather. Two other choppers flew to Coonoor limits and went back before the helicopter carrying Gen. Rawat ventured into the aerial space of Nilgiris. "

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nati...nusual-ro.html

[anjan_c2007]

Originally Posted by digitalnirvana

I desperately wish our media and especially our educated populace would show some responsibility and restraint. Their pyres haven't even been lit and people are already flagging conspiracy theories, questioning his political allegiances and controversial decisions etc.

Another case of yellow journalism. When the whole nation is mourning the loss, this newspaper takes a vicarious pleasure in creating headlines citing the controversies the late General was associated with. These could have been rightly discussed at least after the mourning period was through.

Never had an inkling that this newspaper will stoop and sink to such low levels to please its management and political masters. This newspaper (established 1982) though not so much biased then had upstaged "The Statesman" by the late 1980's to mid 1990's, garnering almost 90% plus of its circulation.

Now its downfall has started and its competitor Times of India has upstaged it lately. Out of desperation they are indulging in such news and headlines.

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/toi...w/62611222.cms