[TusharK]

Ashok Leyland has launched the new AVTR 2825 tipper with a 9-speed AMT. It is claimed to be India's first tipper equipped with a 9-speed automated manual transmission.



The 9-speed AMT has features like a rock-free mode and an integrated Hill-Start Aid. These functions along with the automated and manual transmission modes are said to reduce driver fatigue.



Further, acceleration-based gear shifting is said to improve fuel efficiency. The transmission has automated economy and power modes and is equipped with variable upshift and downshift rpms based on the gradient for smoother gear-shifting.

Link to Team-BHP News

[condor]

AMT on a 20+ tonner ?? We are reading posts of AMT failures on cars, and here AL is bringing in AMT on a heavy vehicle. Hope it is robust enough to withstand the loads - and the driving styles of truck drivers.

Also - Does any other manufacturer have AMT on such trucks ?

[pram_ind]

Originally Posted by condor

AMT on a 20+ tonner ?? We are reading posts of AMT failures on cars, and here AL is bringing in AMT on a heavy vehicle. Hope it is robust enough to withstand the loads - and the driving styles of truck drivers.

Also - Does any other manufacturer have AMT on such trucks ?

Volvo already uses AMT ( I-Shift), in both Buses and Trucks.

[TaurusSHO]

Originally Posted by pram_ind

Volvo already uses AMT ( I-Shift), in both Buses and Trucks.

Besides, this 9 speed AMT is probably the ZF or Eaton AMT heavy duty transmission that's been on use in various vehicles world wide since the early 2000s.

[YD14]

Originally Posted by pram_ind

Volvo already uses AMT ( I-Shift), in both Buses and Trucks.

Not just Volvo, Scania's Opticruise, Mercedes' Powershift all are AMTs. Even Freightliner's Cascadia uses an AMT.

Originally Posted by condor

AMT on a 20+ tonner ?? We are reading posts of AMT failures on cars, and here AL is bringing in AMT on a heavy vehicle. Hope it is robust enough to withstand the loads - and the driving styles of truck drivers.

Heavy vehicles have to use AMT because other automatic transmissions like torque converters or DCTs won't be able to bear the loads and won't be as fuel-efficient.

[TheARUN]

Good move by Leyland. Hopefully this will very soon filter down to their inter-city bus chassis. With sleeper busses dominating this segment, the AMT would add to the comfort of smooth gear changes. Hopefully when the AMT comes, the drivers would use it in the way it's meant to and not cause jerks. The retarder that is available as an option has made braking smoother in sleeper bus application. Also, the bus chassis have disc brakes as an option now on the front wheels.

P.S- Have noticed many a time, tippers seem to be the guinea pigs of the transport industry. Many a new technology has first been introduced in tippers

[YD14]

Originally Posted by TheARUN

P.S- Have noticed many a time, tippers seem to be the guinea pigs of the transport industry. Many a new technology has first been introduced in tippers

Most of the tripper trucks are bought by mining or construction companies, basically, industries whose primary source of income is not the truck itself. Hence, they tend not to be as price-sensitive as the long haul industry whose income comes from the truck alone, and so always go for the cheapest fuel-efficient truck, able to carry the required weight.

[locusjag]

I remember the dictum - AMT works with the bigger engines the best; not so with smaller engines. So, no technical surprise here, when there's a truck launched with an AMT.

From a socio-economic perspective though, I'm surprised an OEM has thought it fit to provide an automated transmission for commercial drivers. The purchasers in this segment have not prioritized driver comfort thus far (e.g., in-cabin ACs have been largely shunned). It has to be about decreased driver fatigue and hence an expected increase in number of kilometres covered per day. It is all about the money after all in this cost sensitive segment. Or else, I can fathom how a demand for such a product would exist here.

[windrider]

I seriously doubt if these are safe to use in India, not because i doubt their engineering or build quality, but because the trucking industry in our country is notorious for overloading their vehicles. Just a few months back, there was news of dump trucks being caught on the TN-Kerala border for overloading. They were carrying in excess of 50 tons when their loading limit was 30 tons. I shudder to imagine what would happen if these transmissions were to fail while climbing steep Ghat roads. I hope they give proper AMT badging on the rear of these trucks so i can give them a wide berth

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by windrider

Just a few months back, there was news of dump trucks being caught on the TN-Kerala border for overloading. They were carrying in excess of 50 tons when their loading limit was 30 tons. I shudder to imagine what would happen if these transmissions were to fail while climbing steep Ghat roads. I hope they give proper AMT badging on the rear of these trucks so i can give them a wide berth

I think it is the other way around. This will improve security over a tired driver trying to hold the truck using a brake or half clutch in a steep incline with an overloaded loadbay. I don't see any risks here other than what a manual transmission truck already has. The electronics of the AMT will actually cover for some of them. For example, the risk of truck rolling down because gear slip or driver fatigue is already covered here with the hill hold aid.

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by locusjag

I remember the dictum - AMT works with the bigger engines the best;...

... It is all about the money after all in this cost sensitive segment. Or else, I can fathom how a demand for such a product would exist here.

If you read their marketing stuff, it's all about reducing driver fatigue for safety and fuel efficiency, because the AMT ensures the truck is in the right gear at all times. They also have a special creep gear for slow speeds. I doubt the average consumer would be willing to pay extra for such features.

You also need to understand that these AMTs would have to be engineered for best ROI, unlike the consumer versions that have to have the lowest initial cost and just clear the warranty period, after that it is - make more money by selling the suckers a new unit.

Not sure about the engine size part - I think shifting gears requires some amount of energy, but I'm sure most 1.0 Litre engines would easily have enough to spare - again, the consumer version would be designed for highest fuel efficiency, compromising on something else.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by mvadg

Not sure about the engine size part - I think shifting gears requires some amount of energy, but I'm sure most 1.0 Litre engines would easily have enough to spare - again, the consumer version would be designed for highest fuel efficiency, compromising on something else.

The engine size's directly proportionate relationship with AMT's reliability is something I remember from other members' inputs here; possibly even from GTO's musings last year. I know nothing of the absolute mechanics involved, but that directly proportional relationship stays in one's mind. Heck, my FNG mechanic alluded to this too in fact, when he persuaded a friend away from AMTs in smaller cars.

[Pam81]

Originally Posted by locusjag

From a socio-economic perspective though, I'm surprised an OEM has thought it fit to provide an automated transmission for commercial drivers. The purchasers in this segment have not prioritized driver comfort thus far (e.g., in-cabin ACs have been largely shunned). It has to be about decreased driver fatigue and hence an expected increase in number of kilometres covered per day. It is all about the money after all in this cost sensitive segment. Or else, I can fathom how a demand for such a product would exist here.

There're also other considerations in Tippers, particularly in mining applications. With manuals, more than driver fatigue, it is their skill during uphill drive with heavy loads. I have heard lots of stories of failed clutches, gears, propeller shaft end splines due to aggressive down-shifting. With AMTs, at least there will be math behind load vs acceleration vs gear selection. I am sure Leyland must have received lots of feedback from Tipper owners on field failures and this launch might aid driver's judgement or eliminates errors perhaps!

[silversteed]

Originally Posted by condor

AMT on a 20+ tonner ??...

AMTs have been in use in CVs for longer than in passenger cars. A search in this very forum would've shown threads about CVs with AMT. The point here is, AMTs are simpler to add to a vehicle design than a dedicated TC or CVT - all it needs is an AMT module that controls gear shifts and clutch actuation, over the standard GB, and some programming in the ECUs.

Originally Posted by TheARUN

Good move by Leyland. Hopefully this will very soon filter down to their inter-city bus chassis.

The AL 12M chassis is offered with Leymatic - AL's AMT based on Wabco Optidrive. VRL already owns a few such coaches.

Originally Posted by locusjag

From a socio-economic perspective though, I'm surprised an OEM has thought it fit to provide an automated transmission for commercial drivers. The purchasers in this segment have not prioritized driver comfort thus far (e.g., in-cabin ACs have been largely shunned). It has to be about decreased driver fatigue and hence an expected increase in number of kilometres covered per day. It is all about the money after all in this cost sensitive segment. Or else, I can fathom how a demand for such a product would exist here.

Originally Posted by Pam81

There're also other considerations in Tippers, ... With AMTs, at least there will be math behind load vs acceleration vs gear selection.

Unlike passenger cars, the owner of a commercial vehicle has to keep the vehicle running to make money out of it - hence uptime and turn-around time (TAT) are important. A variable called driver is added here, whose skill will improve or degrade the profitability. AMTs ensure that the gear shifts happen based on a set algorithm which will be tuned for a decent mix of efficiency and performance, with the flexibility provided to the driver to override the system in case s/he is more skilled. The variance in efficiency caused by driver skill is lowered to a minimum here.

Originally Posted by mvadg

If you read their marketing stuff, it's all about reducing driver fatigue for safety and fuel efficiency, because the AMT ensures the truck is in the right gear at all times. They also have a special creep gear for slow speeds. I doubt the average consumer would be willing to pay extra for such features.

You also need to understand that these AMTs would have to be engineered for best ROI, unlike the consumer versions that have to have the lowest initial cost and just clear the warranty period, after that it is - make more money by selling the suckers a new unit.

Correct.

Most newer tippers in Kerala (AL, Bharat Benz, Mahindra, TML) come with AC cabs - the owners are willing to pay the extra moolah to ensure that the drivers get the best comfort available for them to work more efficiently. A better cared-for driver can make an extra round trip or two compared to one that's fatigued for want of some creature comforts. This saves time and hence the vehicle procurement turns profitable quicker. The AL 3525TN (35 tonner tipper with a 250hp engine and the top of the line N-cab - the "ZDi+" analogue for easier grasp) is a runaway success in the state, shows the trend these days.