[TSIboy]

Originally Posted by DragonHawk

Unconfirmed footage grab taken from the video twitter points to missing tailfin which may have led to catastrophic structural failure

Attachment 2287224

Even the stabilizer/elevators appears to be missing in this picture, without which it’s impossible to control the pitch or pull out of that dive. As another reply mentioned, a good chance that the extreme loads caused the structural failure. A very scary crash indeed. Let’s wait for what the investigation finds. Hope it wasn’t a Germanwings situation.

May all onboard Rest In Peace.

[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by DragonHawk

Unconfirmed footage grab taken from the video twitter points to missing tailfin which may have led to catastrophic structural failure

Attachment 2287224

It is fake. It is a screengrab from one of Nat Geo's "MayDay" episodes, that of Silk Air 185.

Fast forward to 32:28 :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPdXmqyZYAs

[SnS_12]

Originally Posted by AkMar

No MCAS is not there in any version of Boeing 737 prior to MAX

The MCAS was introduced on the MAX series to counter a design flaw which was caused by fitting a bigger engine as explained in this video.

https://youtu.be/H2tuKiiznsY

The scary/unknown part of this latest 737 - 800 crash is that it had a good safety record and after the MAX 8 crashes this particular model was more in demand even though it was an older model to replace the slots left vacant by the MAX 8. However, this particular aircraft crashed/nosedived exactly like the previous two MAX 8.

[kadanaJ]

There's been wayy too much bad news about Boeing over the last few years. My life and safety is of utmost importance to me.

My flight booking criteria has been to make sure I'm traveling in an Airbus (as much as possible).

Boeing executives have already been caught for compromising on safety, in exchange of profit. As an average consumer, trying to avoid their planes seems like a nice small way of punishing the company.

[Senna_sempre]

My heartfelt condolences to the people on board of this ill fated jet. Even though its not a Max, Boeing is in news again for all wrong reasons. Will have to wait till the full investigation report is ready. But the total loss in altitude within a span of 3 minutes is quite scary.

There is a very nice documentary in Netflix "The Downfall" on Boeing 737 Max's debacle. Boeing is cutting corners big time to maximize profitability over quality which is extremely disheartening. Even their 787 Dreamliner has serious quality issues and they are actually very lucky that nothing major has happened till now.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by kadanaJ

There's been wayy too much bad news about Boeing over the last few years. My life and safety is of utmost importance to me.

My flight booking criteria has been to make sure I'm traveling in an Airbus (as much as possible).

Boeing executives have already been caught for compromising on safety, in exchange of profit. As an average consumer, trying to avoid their planes seems like a nice small way of punishing the company.

Its up to you, but this simply doesn't make sense at all. Both these manufacturers have produced thousands of airplanes that have flown safely over many years. On the flip side, Airbus too has had a history of FBW related issues in its A32x . The earlier model A300-600/310 had over-sensitive rudder issues. There was a fatal accident on that account as well. I flew in those planes many times btw. the A321 NEO series had engine issues with Pratt-Whitney.

[srini1785]

Sorry about the crash and loss of life.

Is this even possible? :

Chinese Plane Was Travelling At Speed Of Sound As It Slammed Into Hill

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/chin...ndtv_topscroll

I hope they don't mean the horizontal speed. It may have gone supersonic during its near vertical fall.

PS : I am no aeronautics expert.

[deathwalkr]

I cannot even begin to imagine the sheer terror faced by the passengers during this vertical nosedive from that high an altitude.

Could they have blacked out?

[Aravind_M92]

It's quite shocking and tragic to see a 737-800 airframe crash in recent times. From the database the airframe is relatively new with a age of 6.8 years with a fairly regular flight operations in previous days. From the CCTV footage of the mining industry, it shows an aircraft nosediving straight into the ground. And it appears that the vertical stabiliser had been sheered off from the aircraft. As per data the aircraft achieved a maximum descent rate of 30,000 ft/min and the whole crash happened within 3 minutes. It clearly shows that aircraft's structure was maintained expect for the tail fin. Usually in such a rapid descent, the aircraft tends to disintegrate mid air. The data shows the aircraft momentarily gained 1500 ft before falling again. There have been reports of poor weather near Ganzhou. In my opinion, either the aircraft entered into Q or coffin corner and lost control. It's quite early to give out any comments. There has been no report about the Black Box data yet and ATC reports. May the daparted souls rest in peace.

[aviator47]

Originally Posted by CarNerd

I want to share some information about the safety record of various Plane manufacturers from 1966 - 2019.

One important metric which is missing here is the flight hours of the aircrafts. Each takeoff-landing cycle takes a toll on the aircraft because of the whole pressurisation/depressurisation phase. That’s why usually the age of aircraft’s is calculated based on total flight hours and flight cycles. It’s also the reason you still used to see a few ~40 year old 747s still flying until a few years ago.

Embraer is a small capacity aircraft manufacturer. Their ERJ series is mostly used by regional airlines commercially. With short distances, these aircrafts do not have very high cruising altitudes (not considering Phenoms and other private jets as they’re not significant in count)

What we also have to consider is Boeing has been in the industry since more than a century with their 737 (100/200) series more than 5 decades old now. A lot of airlines still fly over 25 year old 737s. Airbus’s oldest modern jet - A300 is barely seen operating these days. Most of the companies that operate their most popular A320 (and the likes 319, 321) are not old enough to be included in the sample. So determining a company’s safety rating based on company or aircraft’s age is not really accurate. Not to mention accidents happening due to improper/inadequate maintenance.

On another note, Boeing did really mess up with the MAX. When stakes are so high that there’s really no backup when something gets messed up in air, redundancy becomes critical. The whole aircraft industry swears by this word. And they somehow missed it with MCAS and even passed all regulatory checks

[BRV]

One of the black box is found which is severely damaged

One of two black boxes - flight data recorders - from the China Eastern Airline plane that crashed Monday in south China's Guangxi province has been found

More details on the pilots:

The captain had 6,709 hours in the model that crashed, while the first co-pilot had a total of 31,769 flying hours, officials said at a briefing. The second co-pilot had 556 hours of flying hours experience, Bloomberg reported.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world...027794358.html

[Candy$Cars]

Originally Posted by kadanaJ

There's been wayy too much bad news about Boeing over the last few years. My life and safety is of utmost importance to me.

My flight booking criteria has been to make sure I'm traveling in an Airbus (as much as possible).

I was looking at recent aircraft accidents/crashes one day on Wikipedia. Noticed that majority of them in fact included Boeing aircrafts and very few were Airbus (that too were small incidents with zero to few fatalities).

Since then, I have started giving attention to the aircraft while booking and if a flight is only slightly more expensive and not at extremely inconvenient time, I prefer booking the Airbus flight.

Call me paranoid it you wish but it is just what I do!

[SnS_12]

Well, I don't know what to say but this article by Indiatimes has a 'eerie' timing as it was published just a day prior to this crash

Lion Air had a ‘spotty’ safety record and was, for some time, banned from flying into the United States, so there were some subtle and not-so-subtle attempts at blaming the ‘third world’ countries and airlines and their pilots.

A former Chairman of the US National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said, “The airline probably needed to do a better job of training their pilots…”

To a question, “Should the passengers in the US be concerned?” He replied, “I don’t think so. In the United States, they understand how to operate this aircraft.”

Boeing reportedly stated, “An American pilot would never have gotten into such a situation…”

The Boeing Chairman publicly said, “We can’t really comment on the investigation.”

https://www.indiatimes.com/explainer...ts-562474.html

[driver52001]

There was a certain crash in the US some decades back when the rear elevators jammed due to a screw failure. It jammed in such a way that the plane nose dived and the pilots could do nothing about it. This straight dive seems like a catastrophic hydraulics failure. Probably the configuration just before the hydraulics failure was of descent and from there control was lost. Or, it's a very unprecedented thing for such a new airframe to lose the horizontal stabiliser due to structural failure. Like some have pointed out here, it could have been ripped apart during the dive. So back to hydraulics failure. Lastly, hope it wasn't pilot suicide like German Wings.

[SnS_12]

Just finished watching the recently launched documentary Downfall: The Case Against Boeing on Netflix.

Some key points:

a) MCAS is a very powerful system and is connected to only one angle of attack (AOA) sensor at the nose of an aircraft. So has no backup incase of failure or damage.

b) Once the MCAS system takes over the Pilot has only 10 seconds to disable it before it turns fatal with point of no return as it happened in the Ethiopian crash.

c) After the first crash the FAA had mentioned in their TARAM report that if the issue is not fixed there could be another 15 crashes during the life cycle of this model aircraft or one crash every two years. However, Boeing convinced the FAA that a software update will fix it.

d) When Trump grounded this aeroplane in 2019 it was the first time a president of USA had ever done it himself and when the aircraft’s were to be taken to the storage facilities post grounding the pilots were actually scared for their lives to fly it.