[pratyaksh]

I am in a dilemma over which bus to buy, and what better place to get an opinion than here at Team-BHP.

A little background, I already own three buses, of which, two (2) are Swaraj Mazda (SML) 47 Seaters, and one (1) is Force Traveller 26 seater. These were bought in 2017/18 and are running fine although both have their own drawbacks. SML is the cheapest option out there but is really archaic in its technology and systems, whereas Force is modern but has many niggles especially with its electronics (think of it as the Skoda of Buses, if you will).

So, I am looking at getting a couple of more school buses to run on contract basis with different schools/colleges in the city. Since SML, and Force are out of the running; Force also because the dealer has left town, I have narrowed it down to just two options;

• Tata
• Eicher

It is a mandate to run school buses on CNG-only in the city, therefore, Ashok Leyland is also out of the fray as they offer only Diesel. Bharat Benz has also opened shop but I don't know if they have non-AC, and I expect them to be more expensive, and hard to maintain, what with the availability of parts etc. therefore did not consider.

Our requirements are;

1. Safety (definitely up there on No. 1)
2. Cost vs. Value (very obvious)
3. Easy to maintain (ofcourse)
4. Mileage (no brainer for an LCV)
5. Looks (maybe?)
6. 60-70 kms per day (maybe 150 if they get two shifts. With 200 working days a year - the bus should easily last me 15 years / 20 if the fitness goes through)

With the streets getting ever smaller, I have decided this time to not buy a large 50 seater bus, even though it makes much more economical sense, instead to focus on the 25-35 seater category. The difference in length between the two is what makes the biggest difference while entering lanes, and avoiding the overhang from hitting trees, parked cars, and other objects alike.

LxBxH of the Tata 34 Seater 7190 x 2340 x 2910 mm
LxBxH of the Tata 51 Seater 9750 x 2340 x 2910 mm

The Starbus LP 407, and LP 909 are the only options available in CNG.

The Eicher is;

LxBxH of the Eicher 30 Seater 6704 x 2160 x 2970 mm
LxBxH of the Eicher 40 Seater 7904 x 2160 x 2970 mm
LxBxH of the Eicher 50 Seater 9344 x 2160 x 2970 mm

On the power front;
Tata has a 3.8 SGI NA engine delivering 85 HP, 285 NM engine; whereas
Eicher has a 3.3L 115 HP, 360 NM engine.

Not really sure what to make of these engines, and their figures. Anyone able to help in choosing the right engine/gearbox would be much appreciated.

I am only leaning towards TATA because of its smashing looks, and also because of the name it carries. Although, I bought my previous vehicles without any help, and I regret not researching thoroughly earlier as well. But there is such little knowledge about these commercial vehicles anywhere, that it is quite difficult to find the right make, and only bland recommendations run high. Even the dealers are clueless as to why one should buy an X over Y or Z. I was surprised at the level of understanding of even the dealers here. My drivers are better, who at least tell me that they like this over that because of the 'softer clutch' or 'can be fixed anywhere' or 'my best friend has fixed many a Tata'

Even this post was kind of a difficult write as I do not have enough on these vehicles even though I own a few of them. I am also to blame, as I hardly cared thinking let's buy the cheapest, what do I care if the gearbox is not the slickest or the electronics are not up to the mark. A driver needs to drive it, and will use it like a driver would.

Anyhow, attaching a brochure and a screenshot (as neither of the dealers had a proper brochure at hand). Couple of pictures also attached for LCV fans, it is no MACK truck but still - you gotta agree the Tata looks smashing

Brochure for Tata: SCHOOL BUS BROCHURE.pdf
Brochure for Eicher: Eicher Starline School CNG Leaflet.pdf

Pictures of Tata;









Pictures of Eicher;









Pricing

All prices are after initial talks, I am sure they will come down a bit more with some negotiation.

TATA 34 Seater MRP 24.7 Lacs After Discount 23 Lacs
TATA 51 Seater MRP 29.5 Lacs After Discount 27.5 Lacs

Eicher 30 Seater MRP 24.54 Lacs After Discount 22 Lacs
Eicher 40 Seater MRP 26.95 Lacs After Discount 24 Lacs
Eicher 50 Seater MRP 29.37 Lacs After Discount 25.5 Lacs

When compared with full size vehicles (50 seaters), the smaller ones look really expensive. With a difference of only 3.5 lacs for the smallest and the biggest Eicher, the difference is miniscule for the almost double seating capacity. Anyhow, since we should not consider the large vehicles, I am still wondering if at least the 40 seater option should be considered as the difference in length is 6.7m vs 7.9m. Will have to dwell on this a bit.

I would request people vote only if they have a fair understanding of the LCV space. Do help out in anyway you can. Much appreciated.

[moralfibre]

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Commercial Vehicles Section.

[Benoit]

Voted for Eicher.

My father owns an engine reconditioning workshop(our family business for 45+ years). From the knowledge he has from his personal experience and from owners/drivers is that Tata buses/lorries are cheap to maintain, but they aren't so reliable. They breakdown way too often than their competitors.

If your priority is reliability over cost of maintenance, go for Eicher, else go for Tata.

PS: All of these are based on experience from diesel variants only. Most mechanical components must be shared across variants.

[PrasannaDhana]

I own Tata, Eicher, SML, force and Mahindra school buses. In my experience, I will prefer Tata over Eicher anyday. Only reason is the service quality of Tata vs Eicher in my city.

My Tata school bus is 11 years old with 1.8 lakh km on the odo and still works fine with routine maintenance. Eicher too is reliable but tata/Mahindra buses are tangibly sturdier. Eicher is probably a little more fuel efficient than the Tata. Even dimension-wise Tata and Mahindra buses measure longer than SML and Eicher for the same seating configuration, and hence more spacious.

The best one among school buses in my opinion, will be Ashok Leyland. Bharat Benz is also good. But both of them are quite expensive than the others and won't suit you as you have mentioned the fuel options.

Don't go for force. I have a 2001 & 2017 Force Traveller vans, of which the latter, I had to weld several points in the floorboard where small cracks had developed. Their quality has gone down drastically. Their service isn't good either.

By the way, manufacturers have hiked the prices crazily. For an example, I bought new BS4 Mahindra 50 seater school bus in 2018 for 18 lakhs, a new BS6 SML 50 seater school bus in 2020 for 21 lakhs. Today I am looking to buy a new bus, and e quite SML, only to learn the prices for the same bus has been hiked to 26 lakhs!

Good luck choosing a safe and reliable bus for your school kids!

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

Ashok Leyland has Lynx series. Please research it.

You'll register these as yellow board transport vehicles. Therefore, seating capacity is a function of overall length, with limits on front and rear overhangs. I believe you can specify overhangs as long as it is below the maximum, and i suggest you get something with maximum front overhang and limit rear overhang to 35%-40% of wheel base and decide the wheel base itself depending on these parameters and seating capacity. You'll end up with a vehicle having longer wheel base than taking some thing off the shelf. But the vehicle will be sure than other vehicles with Dave wheel base and hence easier to drive. Remember, while taking slow turns, the rear swings in the opposite direction and longer wheel base exaggerated this. Your driver will anticipate this, but other intelligent road users will not. (count the number of scratches on right hand side rear corner of heavy passenger vehicles on city routes)

You can buy chassis alone from the manufacturer and get the bus built at an approved workshop. (with the bus code in place, building bus body at random places is no longer possible). This way, you have better control over how the vehicle looks, if that is important.

The short rear overhang helps in better handling in crowded roads.

Ensure you have automatic / hydraulic door closers in place. For safety sake, spend 50 k extra for two dash cams and point one outside and another inside. Get a reversing camera with a beeper installed. This will make the bus safer while inside the campus.

Use seats by Harita. It is a TVS group company and most commercial vehicle seats are made by them - including those in luxury buses. You can contact them separately. "Harita Grammer" is the company, I think.

CVs run 200-500 km a day, 350+ days a year. So longevity is not an issue. Look at engine life. I guess you'll get 3,00,000 km between overhauls. Ask for costs of overhauls, periodic servicing and service intervals. This includes not only engine oil replacement, but also gearbox oil change, hub regrading, etc. "Total cost of ownership", is the phrase.

When you say AL does not have CNG vehicles for you, I suspect either you are being misled or you have done inadequate research. AL has been the pioneers in fuel efficiency and alternative fuel. I believe their TCO IIS lower, with in-house engines.

Try to implement the suggestion about cameras on existing vehicles also. Having a screen on dash with a camera displaying the door is a great safety feature. Parents will appreciate it.

Best of luck.

[maheshm619]

Originally Posted by pratyaksh

I am in a dilemma over which bus to buy, and what better place to get an opinion than here at Team-BHP.


Our requirements are;

1. Safety (definitely up there on No. 1)

How is it possible to rate these buses on safety ?. I guess ABS is standard.Since seatbelt usage in buses is a rarity, what other features can give a better safety rating to one product to another ?

[pratyaksh]

Originally Posted by Benoit

Voted for Eicher.
If your priority is reliability over cost of maintenance, go for Eicher, else go for Tata.

You are the first and only one who has voted for Eicher. This will be a tough sell. Thank you very much for your inputs.

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

The best one among school buses in my opinion, will be Ashok Leyland. Bharat Benz is also good. But both of them are quite expensive than the others and won't suit you as you have mentioned the fuel options.

Are Ashok Leyland buses that good? Can you tell me more? The dealer says, CNG version might be on the way in 6 months' time.

Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR

Ashok Leyland has Lynx series. Please research it.

Ensure you have automatic / hydraulic door closers in place. For safety sake, spend 50 k extra for two dash cams and point one outside and another inside. Get a reversing camera with a beeper installed. This will make the bus safer while inside the campus.

When you say AL does not have CNG vehicles for you, I suspect either you are being misled or you have done inadequate research. AL has been the pioneers in fuel efficiency and alternative fuel. I believe their TCO IIS lower, with in-house engines.

Try to implement the suggestion about cameras on existing vehicles also. Having a screen on dash with a camera displaying the door is a great safety feature. Parents will appreciate it.

a. I did check out Ashok Leyland but they really do not have any CNG offering. Nothing after BSIV it seems.
b. We do have cameras inside the buses already but never thought of a dashcam for some reason. I think a very good suggestion indeed, and even the beepers for reversing. Will definitely be implementing these ASAP.
c. I definitely don't want to build-my-own bus. Firstly, I don't have the patience, and secondly I wouldn't have the time.

Originally Posted by maheshm619

How is it possible to rate these buses on safety ?. I guess ABS is standard.Since seatbelt usage in buses is a rarity, what other features can give a better safety rating to one product to another ?

These buses now come with factory fitted seat belts which is appreciated. Getting students to wear them is another matter. I guess the construction of the shell by the company vis`-a-vis` an outside body maker might be a factor to be considered for 'safe build'. That's why I do not want to go the body build way and would rather entrust the company with the job. Other safety features are non-slip floors, emergency buttons, grab handles, chin guards, ingress/egress step design, fire detection/suppression system, anti-rollover design, low CG, etc.

[maheshm619]

Originally Posted by pratyaksh

Other safety features are non-slip floors, emergency buttons, grab handles, chin guards, ingress/egress step design, fire detection/suppression system, anti-rollover design, low CG, etc.

Thanks for that. These definitely add to the overall safety. My question was clouded by overall notion of safety = crash safety.

[Jerryaj]

I guess Ashok Leyland do have CNG buses, if I'm not wrong they have Viking series CNG bus. I'm not sure if it fits your requirement or not as Viking buses are 11M long. Might be worth checking it.

Off Topic - The public transport buses in Delhi are supposed to be CNG and they use Ashok Leyland buses a lot, hence I assume they do have CNG buses.

[RGK]

Originally Posted by pratyaksh

• Tata
• Eicher

I spoke with two of my trusted sources (seasoned drivers cum owners), both of whom advised to go with Eicher. They cited better mileage (5–6 kmpl) and lower maintenance costs as explanations.

OT: One of them mentioned that he recently sold his 2018 Eicher - 41 seater - 35km odo for 11 lakhs.

[busydrive]

Votes for Tata. I don't have any experience with Eicher. Back home, in our transport fleet we have Tata and Ashok Leyland and from that experience we have found Leyland to be more reliable. However the benefit of Tata is Spares are cheaper compared to Leyland. We don't have school buses but mini buses and long distance night buses. The minis are mostly Tata. Engine overhaul interval was shorter in Tata compared to Leyland. But if they don't have cng then Tata is the option for you.

[sf71hvettel]

Ashok Leyland definitely has CNG buses in both Lynx and Viking variants.

Check out the details here- https://www.ashokleyland.com/in/en/p...ing-diesel-cng

You can get the buses either as a fully built body or a chassis. Most schools go for the fully built option as it helps them avoid the hassle. However, if you go for a chassis plus vendor manufactured body, you may get a better quality product as a lower rate. The GST on buses is 28% whereas it is only 18% on bus bodies. This GST difference on around 5L of value helps the customer save around 50K.

[DicKy]

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

Requirement for two school buses. Looking at two types. 42-46 seaters and 51-53 seaters. Know zilch about commercial vehicles.

Has narrowed down to Tata, Eicher and Swaraj Mazda (SML Isuzu).

Everyone has unequivocally said that Tata is problematic.

The drivers have preferred the Swaraj Mazdas, while the Transport dept head prefers the Eicher; which he said has improved from old days and are reliable now. Others, including well wishers are also split between Eicher And SML Isuzu.

The location of usage is southern Thiruvananthapuram district.

[silversteed]

Originally Posted by DicKy

Looking at two types. 42-46 seaters and 51-53 seaters...
The location of usage is southern Thiruvananthapuram district.

Why don't you take a look at AL Sunshine series?


Image credit: @binaiks

[kraken]

Originally Posted by DicKy

The location of usage is southern Thiruvananthapuram district.

No idea about perfomance, but service point of view I would advise against Eicher. Being in business in parts of south Kerala myself, service and support for Eicher in Trivandrum is a hit or miss. Spare parts availability used be an issue (my association with eicher vehicles ended in 2020). As far as I know, the nearest service centre for Eicher is in Kollam or Kozhenchery in Pathanamthitta (circa 2021). I would suggest Ashok Leyland or SML. IMHO SML is very pro active in service support. Again, my opinion is on service support and service quality, could be just for me, please research accordingly and choose. Wishing you an amazing bus shopping experience !