Team-BHP - Under-powered Indian trucks driving too slowly in the fast lane

I voted NO whereas the majority has voted YES for more power packed trucks.

It's very true that the almost always overloaded, sometimes dangerously overloaded and tilting trucks are a menace on the roads be it in a city or outside on highways. Most truckers admit that trucks are overloaded by 1.5 to 2 times or more than their payload capacities and whenever checked, they bribe the concerned officials.

Since we are discussing their movements on highways, we find these moving on any lane the respective driver selects. This is a great irritant for the trailing traffic. I think its better to assign the second lane (from the road divider) to trucks compulsorily on multi-laned highways. The traffic laws need to be amended suitably with such a provision. Penal provisions with steep fines for violations need to be imposed.

We are discussing fitment of more powerful power trains to these monsters. As I have said, these are overloaded by 1.5 to 2 times or even more in excess. With more powerful engines, the machine's thirst for fuel will rise. And the truckers will surely get additional payload capacities from the truck maker commensurate with the rise in power. And the 1.5 to 2 plus times overloading translates into more unlawful overloads. So even a powerful engine will fail, if we go by the simple power to weight ratio calculations with the enhanced power.

And more power to empty or less loaded trucks will be a more of a menace with the "killer" abilities as many of these are recklessly driven.

I would not want our trucks to be any more powerful because with more power comes more speed and given our road infrastructure and the manner in which people drive, that would be a disaster in making.

I regularly drive in highways and I keenly observe these truck drivers and I have to say that they are one of the most sane people on the roads. Barring the odd truck weaving through traffic, I have honestly felt that truck drivers are very sensible. They are over-stressed and burdened with bad working conditions.

With regard to a 3 lane highway, these truck drivers usually drive in the centre/ right lane and I don't have any qualms with that because the left lane is always there to overtake. It is exceptionally rare to see 3 trucks eating into 3 lanes in a 6 lane highway and I am okay with that.

The issue starts when it is a 2 lane highway. I encounter this on a frequent basis on the GST Road (Grand Southern Trunk Road). It is really annoying to tail a couple of trucks hogging up the entire road. It takes a minute or two for two slow moving trucks to pass each other (especially when they are fully loaded and hover in and around 40 kmph).

However, when I look at things from their perspective, I don't think they have any choice.
* Slow vehicles are annoying to drive even for truckers
* They don't have any option because they are forced to work in woeful conditions.
* The Auto-wallas and 2 wheelers are a bigger menace on highways and are very unpredictable. When LMVs themselves find it difficult to handle them, the HMVs don't stand a chance.
* The left most lane is prone to autos, motorcycles, cyclists and pedestrians.

The lorry drivers are one of the safest drivers on the highways just after family driven cars (my experience). However, I have found that these bolero pickup trucks to be a bit rash and they try to race LMVs.:Frustrati

I might be kicking up a controversy here, but I prefer to overtake in the left. My co-driver is always my spotter and once he/she gives a green signal, I overtake from the left. This of course works only when the co-driver is awake. It would be great if manufacturers come with a front facing camera on the left mirror and project the view on the central touchscreen (when the left indicator is enabled) (something like a blind view monitor) to make left side overtaking more safer. Agreed that on paper left side overtaking is an absolute no-no, but we are not a nation that functions based on papers and rules. Just my small recommendation and I'll be really glad if this feature is implemented in cars because they make them much more safer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aditya94 (Post 5412105)

I might be kicking up a controversy here, but I prefer to overtake in the left. My co-driver is always my spotter and once he/she gives a green signal, I overtake from the left. This of course works only when the co-driver is awake. It would be great if manufacturers come with a front facing camera on the left mirror and project the view on the central touchscreen (when the left indicator is enabled) (something like a blind view monitor) to make left side overtaking more safer. Agreed that on paper left side overtaking is an absolute no-no, but we are not a nation that functions based on papers and rules. Just my small recommendation and I'll be really glad if this feature is implemented in cars because they make them much more safer.

What is controversial here? Does not matter whether you prefer or not!. What other choice do you have if you see a truck chugging along the right most lane or two trucks in the middle and the right most lane (they do not have an option, so not blaming them one bit) ? Will you follow them until the cows come home or will you blast the horn until they switch lanes allowing you to overtake from the right or will you overtake from the left?

Right or left. Please ensure you have a clear view ahead with some margin to spare until you finish the overtake. Of course, give a light honk to let the guys know that you are passing them and you can confirm their acknowledgement when they slighly let go the gas pedal. Vehicle body language is imperative in India to read and interpret :thumbs up.

Interesting thread. The newer trucks are adequately powered and for ODC/heavy cargo 3/4 trucks in two are used. AL/Tata engines max out at 250 Hp/6 cyl and Scania used to have 10/12 cylinder engines. Not sure if they are still being sold. In any case for ODC/heavy cargo even if higher spec trucks are available, might not make any difference as they are in a convoy and increase in speed will not be utilized at all.

Most of the long haul truckers do not over speed and accidents are due to haphazardly parked vehicles, avoiding other vehicles or similar. Down south, sand lorries do are driven recklessly as they are all political connections and know no action will be taken.

More than engine capacity focus should be more on drive training for awareness.

What i have observed is most of the trucks drive around 60-70 kmph on flat roads for max FE. On downward slopes they coast in neutral and reach whatever possible max speed, which has even been in excess of 100kmph. The problem is with the braking capabilities when the trucks are overloaded. They just do not have enough stopping power when overloaded. Couple this with tired drivers, we see a lot of accidents.

On NICE road in BLR that I use frequently, I see atleast one truck crashed off the road or an accident with truck involved a week. Many times, the truck would have crashed on a straight stretch of road. I always wondered why and thought maybe the driver was tired.

Fixed driving hours, more comfortable cabin with AC and other creature comforts like well designed and comfortable driver seats are more important than increasing the power in the trucks. If the power increases, the overloading also increases. There is no stopping that unless these trucks are weighed at every toll booth and penalized if overweight.

Voted a strong NO in favour of keeping our trucks underpowered and hence, safer. The problem is not so much with a lack of power as much with the chronic overloading and "chalta hai" attitude of fleet operators.

More power simply equates to more overloading and much more gruesome accidents. Hell, my biggest fear is getting crushed by an overloaded sand carrying dump truck. We see this all the time.

More power won't solve the slow traffic issue and believe me when I say, better late than never.

Anyone ever had the liberty of a conversation with a random truck driver in the middle of the night on a UP highway?

Passing 18Ton hi hai, but 30-35Ton le jaate hain regularly. And asked whether the responsibility of taking a life due to this problem would ever pose a hindrance to them? I got the generic "woh sabh bhagwan ke hath me hai".

So yes. Please God, no more power.

Having worked in the industry at the start of my career and seen it up close across mostly rural India, here are my pointers why we need higher powered trucks and why it will take DECADES before we see any adoption

1) Two factors affect buying (outside of purchase cost and typical discount seeking): Mileage and maintenance. Fleet owners and medium scale transporters have their own workshops and any fundamental changes to reparability will scare these customers away. For instance it took a better part of a decade to move customers away from inline fuel pump to a much more modern rotary pump. Even now common rail tech is frowned upon in the vastness between tier 1 and 2 cities. The added perception that old school tech is more efficient is not helping with adoption of higher specific output powertrains (we actually had multiple fuel trials for a prominent fleet owner to show CRDI was better, but he still said we probably rigged results and proceeded to place a 100 vehicle order for older inline pump models lol)

2) Do more powerful engine solve for mileage and speed? Without a doubt. On an automotive forum I don't have to spend time explaining how a more powerful engine can cruise at lower RPMs far easier than one with a lower state of tune

3) Are Indian truck drivers ready? I see a lot of responses conflating speed and reckless driving. I disagree strongly; the dangers of not being able to overtake and therefore making poor passing calls are all too familiar. Having been inside trucks as they went on fuel trials, its a nightmare when they have spent the better part of an hour trying to overtake a slower truck up front and deciding to make a move only to narrowly miss taking out a faster moving car. Top speed can be governed but the way it gets to that top speed is far more important

Also adding that long haul drivers are amongst the most underpaid but most considerate drivers on the highway. We must do better by them as a country and as a tax paying citizen, I have no hope that we can overcome our own short sightedness in the next decade

Ninja edit: We're spending a lot of time talking about better powertrains. Brake technology in the Indian trucking industry is 50 years old at this point. Bigger engines need better braking (regen, disc, etc) and that is as critical as just adding more HP

Hell no! Trucks are already overloaded well beyond capacity. I had a small stint with CEAT's commercial vehicle division and got an insight into just how bad the situation was. Tyres designed for a 300K kms would run naked in 6 months and 60-70K kms. Particularly bad were trucks ferrying ore from the quarries. Transporters add several leaves to the leaf springs to jack up the suspension - and trucks are overloaded by even 7-8 times the capacity! Tatas 22fts (old ones) with a loading capacity of ~10 tons used to carry 70-80 tons of ore / rocks. it was just insane. Any more power / torque will only give transporters license to overload these beds even further.

Trucks occupying all lanes / right lanes in India has several ignored nuances that need to be addressed. A few of which are obvious:

1. Freeing up left lanes so that trucks can safely maintain left without having to maneuver every few kms. Driving a truck is a hard day's labor and if that is complicated with having to constantly keep changing lanes - that must a proper nightmare. This would need addressing all things that block left lanes today - parked vehicles of all persuasions, two-wheelers, cattle, shops, illegal entrances to and from the roadside Dhabas and also cars and other vehicles entering highways without so much as a look and care for oncoming traffic!

2. Road design / construction- have always wondered if roads have / should have different construction in truck lanes. Noticed this on the Agra LKO expressway. Given the relatively lighter traffic I had never seen trucks driving on the right - until monsoons hit. Water would accumulate in the wheel-line in the left lane - because the road had developed depressions where truck wheels would typically align within the lane (still smooth, but enough for water to accumulate). Slowing down the trucks and I imagine making them less efficient. Noticed the same thing on roads where the quality of tarmac was rougher in some lanes / or freshly laid. Trucks would gravitate towards the lanes where tarmac was older / smoother, again I imagine to do with efficiency and tyre-wear.

3. Lane discipline of course - with toll plazas just simply start deducting higher tolls with right lane traffic. Enforce it with cameras. Or perhaps if my wishful thinking is too much - a simpler more elegant solution.

By far I find most truck drivers to be best behaved on the road vs all other drivers. I imagine the pressure of operating in our kind of an environment just makes it very very hard on them. Much like Mumbai BEST drivers. I'm typically furious in the moment when one of them crosses me on the road like a complete maniac - but on reflection I cannot even fathom the immense pressure they must face trying to do timed runs in this city of complete chaos!

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddy42 (Post 5410170)

Ever faced an issue while driving our highways where the Truck occupying the right lane is doing 35, and is being overtaken by another truck on the left doing 36 and you are stuck behind it for go knows how long and getting raged by the minute?

You are not alone. rl:

This is a common theme in most threads, and a large contributor to many accidents, road rages and also delays caused by long snaking line of trucks on our highways.

Driving down the semi completed Bengaluru - Mysuru expressway got me thinking on a couple of the major issues faced by our Truck drivers.

Our trucks carry 70% of the cargo in our country.
Average daily kms travelled by our trucks are 350kms as compared to 500-600kms done by our american truckers.
Our trucks are mostly overloaded with no way to get it checked.

Root cause:
Our trucks are underpowered for the job on hand.

Let me explain:
Tata 4825 specs - 6.7Lts - 6 cylinder making 250HP and 950NM of torque with a payload of 38000kg and mileage of 3.5kmpl

In comparison - Class 8 semi Diesel engine has better torque and hauling power. 14.8liter, 6 cylinder, upto 560HP and 1850lbs and regularly passed 1 million miles and are meant to run non stop. It is able to haul 80000 pounds which is roughly the same load.

The reason i started this thread is not to belittle our trucks, but to find the reasons we are stretching our trucks to its limits? I want to understand if this can change and how can this change to maybe improve how our goods are transported.

Two reasons off the top of my head - Price and Mileage. Is there something i am missing?

Fleet owners or truck owners please contribute. Let the lessons begin. :thumbs up

Maddy

Brilliant topic to debate.

I voted no because of the lack of formal driver training for these truck drivers. Most of the drivers learn on the job and rarely even get exposed to good technical driving lessons.

The 38 tonnes (note this is a payload actual weight might be higher) at 40 kmph vs 38 tonnes at 60 kmph have a 2.2 times energy momentum etc. It largely affects the driving dynamics in trucks and does not change so much in cars. A higher speed while cornering would mean the need for the related infra as well - Banked roads, well-marked lanes - apart from the products that can handle these speeds while creating value for the transporters (milage, cost etc).

Imagine powerful trucks breaking traffic rules in either side of road (left side vs right side). Some moving fast and some maintaining slow steady speed inspite of being capable. This distribution in the roads is highly unpredictable and at the mercy of individual driver! I would say that the kind of roads we are driving in, the slow predictable speeds of trucks actually is a boon. The moment it becomes unpredictable (which is actually the cause of most accident) would make driving more hazardous.

Before we go on to powerful engines, we should fix the perrennial issue of right side vs left for slow moving vehicle. Having said this, I feel that Goods carrier for the hilly terrain must have powerful and capable engines, not be allowed to overload, and such vehicle be strictly certtified.