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Old 9th December 2022, 17:47   #31
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Re: Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!

The A340, specifically the -300 is the most underpowered 4 engine aircraft in service. Takes around 10,000 feet of runway to take off on a full load compared to say a 777 or 787 which gets airbrone under 9000 feet of runway on full load.
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Old 9th December 2022, 19:28   #32
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Re: Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!

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Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
Especially the A340-200/300 which has hair dryer engines ... one of the quietest, smoothest big jets. 2-4-2 in economy was one of the more comfortable configurations.
One of my favourite aircraft models. In fact, the name of my former car, the Esteem, goes after this very machine.


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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
The A340, specifically the -300 is the most underpowered 4 engine aircraft in service. Takes around 10,000 feet of runway to take off on a full load compared to say a 777 or 787 which gets airbrone under 9000 feet of runway on full load.
A magnificent looking machine, nevertheless. Way back in the early 2000s, it was one of the most popular choices for long haul routes. The -600 in particular was , as far as I remember, the longest passenger aircraft with the longest route capacity.

At one point of time, Lufthansa service to BLR was an A340. I recall that entertainment screens were CRTs with everyone onboard treated to the same two movies, albeit in a language of their choice. So when there was a funny scene, it had the entire section of the aircraft laughing out loud

Last edited by pannags : 9th December 2022 at 19:33. Reason: Added quote
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Old 9th December 2022, 20:42   #33
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Re: Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!

I had an opportunity to travel from SFO to SIN via HKG in a Singapore Airlines B747 in December 2007. Took this photo at HKG.

Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!-100_2933.jpg

I am providing below some B747 photos from my collection.

Emirates B747 Cargo at DXB (June 2013):

Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!-dsc_0173.jpg

United B747 at SFO (June 2013):

Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!-dsc_0204.jpg

Virgin Atlantic B747 at SFO (July 2013):

Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!-dsc_0430.jpg

British Airways B747 at SFO (July 2013):

Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!-dsc_0431.jpg

KLM B747 at SFO (July 2013):

Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!-dsc_0424.jpg

British Airways B747 and KLM B747 side by side at SFO (July 2013):

Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!-dsc_0425.jpg
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Old 10th December 2022, 07:31   #34
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Re: Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!

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Originally Posted by pannags View Post
At one point of time, Lufthansa service to BLR was an A340. I recall that entertainment screens were CRTs
Lufthansa even fitted CRTs on their older B747-200s. Those were fixed, but the ones on the A340 used to retract before take off and landing, if I recall.
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Old 10th December 2022, 09:37   #35
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Re: Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!

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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
The A340, specifically the -300 is the most underpowered 4 engine aircraft in service. Takes around 10,000 feet of runway to take off on a full load compared to say a 777 or 787 which gets airbrone under 9000 feet of runway on full load.

There are some thought about this. First of all there is a fundamental difference between a 2-engine and 4-engine commercial aircraft. Both need to comply with a basic rule on take off: After reaching so called V1 the aircraft must still be able to take off whilst losing one engine.

To put it differently, due to this requirement twin engine planes are vastly overpowered. Because they need to be able to take off on one engine, whereas a 4-engine jet, needs to be able to take off on 3-engines!!

Furthermore, almost all aircraft receive various engine upgrades during their life. So did the Airbus A340. The original CFM engines were replaced with Trent engines on the A340-300 and A340-400. Those CFM engines had almost double the thrust of the CFM engines. The A340 with Trent engines is no slouch when it comes to take off. In fact it becomes quite the rocket. Although most of all that extra thrust is of course used to get more weight (e.g. passengers and cargo) into the air.

Just for reference, the original Boeing 747-100 required a much longer runway than the original Airbus A340!

When it comes to take off length there are a number of factors that are relevant. It’s not only the engines. For instance, the Concorde had a runway requirement of 3600 meters (11800 feet) and nobody would call a Concorde underpowered!

Also note that these runway requirements are specified for MTOW (Maximum Take Off Weight). Whereas the Concorde started just about every flight at MTOW most planes and certainly wide bodies don’t. (Anorak fact: The Air France Concorde that crashed was overweight by several tonnes!)

At lower weights they require substantial less runway and they are allowed to use shorter runways. Furthermore, ambient temperature, wind direction and wind speed, up-downslope and field elevation and runway conditions are all taken into account to determine the required runway length. (and possibly any systems defects in accordance with the DDG).

Eg. I would fly my Cessna with inoperative flaps no problem, but it required more runway to take off and land.

Jeroen
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Old 10th December 2022, 13:04   #36
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Re: Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!

Quite poignant to see the 747 die. My second ever international flight was on a British Airways 747-400 from Singapore to Brisbane. Was truly a different experience from the narrow bodies I had experienced till then. My best 747 experiences have been with the Lufthansa 747-8, if I recall correctly, it was used briefly on Mumbai Frankfurt and also on Frankfurt - JFK.

But I guess us 747 fans can take some joy in the fact that it survived longer than it’s nemesis the 380 - which is also a fantastic plane to travel in, but in my view is one of the ugliest passenger planes in the skies.

Suspect one will not have too many 747 trips going forward - think British Airways and Singapore Airlines have abandoned the air craft, and it’s perhaps only Lufthansa among major carriers that still uses the same.
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Old 10th December 2022, 18:37   #37
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Re: Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!

The "Jumbo" has been an icon of the aviation industry in its own right. Although I have not had the opportunity till now to fly the Jumbo, but have very fond memory of a green 747 plastic toy that I had way back as a kid (At that time, I did not know it was officially called the 747, but only as the Jumbo Jet).

The other memory of the 747 are those that are parked at the AI hanger of Mumbai Airport. Since I started working 11 years back, I fondly remembered those 747s parked and would always look out of the window trying to catch a glimpse everytime I would fly to our HQ. Now, based out of Mumbai, it feels sad to see the dusty 747s parked at the hanger every time I happen to take a flight.
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Old 12th December 2022, 10:06   #38
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Re: Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!

Ahh the 747. My very first international trip was to the US on a BA itinerary with 747 on both legs. BOM-LHR and LHR-JFK. This was back in 2000 and the interesting thing was the 747 on BOM-LHR leg has Y seating on the upper deck. Now that was one hell of an experience compared to other 747 trips later on. The upper deck had less seating, slightly spacious, dedicated galley and and an FL who kept the galley stocked while he was mingling with his colleagues downstairs. Needless to say the upper was higher than the rest of the plane!!!

The other interesting fact of that trip was the opportunity to see a Concorde take from LHR. That is one nice memory. The later trips on 747, I would choose the end of the lower deck (typically 50A/51A) since the curving fuselage would reduce the number across the row as well as providing more leg space.

Also travelled the AI744 and I've always felt that the AI pilots are much better at a smoother touchdown with the 747 flare that other pilots. Butter smooth landing.
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Old 7th January 2023, 13:36   #39
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Re: Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!

For any 747 enthusiast who like to understand some more detail on how to fly the 747 here is a very interesting YouTube channel.

https://youtube.com/@subsonicflighttraining

Enjoy, Jeroen

Last edited by vb-saan : 7th January 2023 at 15:21. Reason: a small typo
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Old 23rd January 2023, 23:26   #40
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Re: Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!

I just came across this article:

https://simpleflying.com/joe-sutter-last-747-decal/

The last 747 ever produced will have a decal with Joe Sutter on it.

Very appropriate I think. Joe is considered the father of the 747 series. It was him and his team that designed the very first 747.

Jeroen
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Old 28th January 2023, 20:00   #41
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Re: Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!

There is a special event on the 31st (would be around 1:30 am IST on Feb 1st )to bid farewell to 747 at the factory; all employees and special guests, including some retirees, will be there. Here is the link in case anyone wants to see it live. https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2023-01...-747-on-Jan-31
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Old 31st January 2023, 14:47   #42
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Re: Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!

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Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
But I guess us 747 fans can take some joy in the fact that it survived longer than it’s nemesis the 380 - which is also a fantastic plane to travel in, but in my view is one of the ugliest passenger planes in the skies.
747 and 380 have two of the easily recognizable silhouette I feel. Both these legendary aircrafts come next to each other every night at Bangalore airport.

Lufthansa 747-400 and Emirates A380. They both are always assigned neighboring departure gates.

Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!-pxl_20230120_221425200.jpg


Viewing 747 from A380, look at the shadow those massive wings are making.

Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!-pxl_20230120_223713787.jpg

Last edited by mpksuhas : 31st January 2023 at 14:52.
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Old 31st January 2023, 16:16   #43
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Re: Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!

Wait, So Lufthansa no longer operates the 747-8 on FRA-BLR?! The one in the pic is a 747-400
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Old 31st January 2023, 17:48   #44
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Re: Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!

With the last 747 ever just about produced we are also going to miss another 747 aspect: The incredible production line in the Boeing factory at Everett, near Seatle, UK.

I had the pleasure of visiting the 747 production line in 2017. In those days still in full swing! Absolutely incredible. At the time these were by far, the largest production facilities in the world. Everything on the 747 is HUGE.

Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!-img_0090.jpg

If you ever find yourself near this place I highly recommend you visit it. Book your tour in advance as it can get very busy. Even for non-aviation people it is just so impressing. It is like stepping in a different world.

A funny anecdote: After my tour was done I spend some more time at the reception facility where they also have a large gift/souvenir shop, where you can buy all sorts of you, you guessed it, Boeing related stuff.

I took this image of a not so Boeing item and put it on my Facebook:

Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!-screenshot-20230131-1.10.56-pm.png

About a week later a colleague of mine visited the Boeing factory as well. He reported the Airbus 380s had been removed. (Or sold out, we will never know!)

Jeroen
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Old 1st February 2023, 15:10   #45
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Re: Farewell Boeing 747 - Last one just rolled out of the Seattle factory!

Sad to see the end of an era. 747 was the most recognizable aircraft in the skies, with the elegant curves and the hump. No wonder she is called the Queen of the Skies. The 747 will live on, mainly as factory delivered (748F's, 744F's) and converted freighters (BCF and others) where it doesn't have any real competition. The design of the cockpit on the upper deck turned out to be the most important element on the 747 for freight operations. This enabled the nose cargo door, which was the biggest design issue for the proposed A380 freighter. With the nose door, the 747 is able to accommodate oversized cargo, which is a major advantage.

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Wait, So Lufthansa no longer operates the 747-8 on FRA-BLR?! The one in the pic is a 747-400
Seems to be the case. At least from 1st of November, 2022, the operating equipment is listed as 744 and not 748. Maybe the load is not enough to justify the use of a 748.

Last edited by A350XWB : 1st February 2023 at 15:21.
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