[V.Narayan]

https://indianexpress.com/article/in...fargo-8366609/
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...015130467.html

The woman who complained about Shankar Mishra had informed the crew that she did not want to see his face and was "stunned" when the offender was brought before her and "started crying and profusely apologising".

According to the Delhi Police's FIR against the accused, he also begged her to not lodge a complaint, saying he was a family man and did not wish his wife and child to be affected by the incident.

The victim alleged that despite her unwillingness, she was forced to confront the accused and negotiate with him, further disorienting her, according to the FIR registered on Wednesday based on the victim's complaint to Air India.

The statements above from Hindustan Times indicate to us the insensitivity of the crew, bullying the victim, and lacking empathy for that elderly lady. Cabin crew & Captain not knowing what to do in case of a breech of law and order on board an aircraft is like a pilot not knowing he/she has to lower the landing gear when coming in to land. Having employed cabin crew in my time the crew conduct is worse than ridiculous. Clearly the sarkari chalta hai attitude is alive and kicking (err sorry pissing!)

This worthy begging for forgiveness using wife and daughter is lamentable. If he was wide awake after the incident to deliver these forgiveness speeches then he was wide awake enough to know what he did. The statements being put out by Mishra Senior indicate he seems as drunk as his son.

The fact that Air India lodged an FIR only after the lady's family demanded it is a reflection of the company's hope of settling the matter quietly so that Mishra Junior can go pee again. The fact that Delhi's Commission for Women has got involved gives me hope that some good will come out of this.

[Cyborg]

I think this incident is blown out of proportion. Don’t get me wrong, it was a terrible thing to happen for the lady and should have been handled better after the fact rather than trying to sweep it under the carpet so to speak.

Think for a moment of the cabin crew on board and really think, could this have been avoided by limiting the passengers drinks? I don’t think so, the person would have done what he did even with a lesser amount to drink because of his ridiculous mentality or thought process. The cabin crew would have hardly had any warning before the man went ahead and did what he did. They have a lot to do on board, it’s extremely hard and taxing work. Most people don’t realise it and only look at the glamour part which is incorrect.

What’s happened has happened (a second time also on another flight I believe), what needs to be done is set an extremely harsh example with this person, jail him, put him on an extended no fly list with all carriers. Do this and the next person even thinking of such a thing after drinking will immediately get sober thinking of the punishment.

Cheers

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Cyborg

Think for a moment of the cabin crew on board and really think, could this have been avoided by limiting the passengers drinks? I don’t think so, the person would have done what he did even with a lesser amount to drink because of his ridiculous mentality or thought process. The cabin crew would have hardly had any warning before the man went ahead and did what he did. They have a lot to do on board, it’s extremely hard and taxing work. Most people don’t realise it and only look at the glamour part which is incorrect.

@Cyborg, I do not know what industry or line of trade you are from that led you to these conclusions. I presume these conclusions have been drawn in innocence. In my time one of my businesses had a fleet of 25 to 28 business jets and employed a cabin crew team of over 70 to 80 or so. Based on my knowledge and experience of employing, training and managing these cabin crew personnel on innumerable international sectors over several years I cannot but disagree with statement above.

All,

Having situational awareness of what's going on in the cabin - social, technical or safety related, is what the crew are trained for {or ought to be}. Passengers over drinking is not a new issue. It is one of the most common types of incidents one is trained for handling and easing off the supply. Male pax from Asia, Africa & the old USSR in my experience are more likely to over drink than others. Yes, cabin crew work, is hard and taxing but the crew numbers are determined after assessing work loads and need for safety awareness & action. The size of a cabin crew compliment is a licensed number not an arbitrary one. And the business cabin has a fairly high cabin crew to passenger ratio. Yes the crew could not have anticipated that this worthy would do something so egregious but his over drinking was a warning. Them continuing to serve him was a fault line they crossed several times. And their entire conduct after the incident will be enshrined as a case study in training manuals hitherto.

[CarNerd]

Vice President of Wells Fargo?? And we keep blaming poor financial status and illiteracy for bad behaviour! The old lady should get a huge monetary compensation from both the airline. That person should be in jail for at least one year and banned from flying for 3 years. All the crew including the captain should be sacked and shouldn't be employed for some time.

If it was in my power, I would have dismantled that airplane and sold off its parts. Such atrocious people, airline, crew should be taught a lesson. The problem is we take such things lightly, make fun of the airline and forget it. Such incidents should never be forgiven and never be forgotten. And some talk about teaching to the whole world.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

- Clearly the sarkari chalta hai attitude is alive and kicking (err sorry pissing!)
- This worthy begging for forgiveness using wife and daughter is lamentable. If

- An example of saving yourself from your job instead of doing it, I wonder if it was due to "hassles and paperwork" on landing which led to the famed "compromise" at solely the victim's cost. Isn't this supposed to happen at a police station in normal life ?

- Did the offender even once think that the lady was someone's wife/daughter/mother too ?

Originally Posted by Cyborg

They have a lot to do on board, it’s extremely hard and taxing work.

Exactly and that's why the need to restrain the offenders, attend to the victims, carry on with your duties and offload the offender to ground staff/security for further action and report the incident as per protocol(airline/DGCA whatever applies in that case). The whole point being that the flight safety and experience of passengers(not offenders) isn't affected further.
Wasting time in playing police and judge doesn't fall into the duties of the crew, IMHO.

[Amrik Singh]

I have seen Cabin Crew doing so called lowly job too. During a flight in AI, I saw the Pilot (or some other Crew member) have a peek into Washroom, step back, bring in an Air Hostess and made the high flying lady clean up the Washroom. After that, she stood guard at its door and did not let any passenger use it. Soon a well known MP comes and honours the cleaned up Washroom by doing his business in there. The Crew flies during their duty, but even when off duty, they are flying above the ground. In fact, we know what they actually are.

[fordday]

Originally Posted by Cyborg

I think this incident is blown out of proportion.

<snip>

What’s happened has happened (a second time also on another flight I believe), what needs to be done is set an extremely harsh example with this person, jail him, put him on an extended no fly list with all carriers. Do this and the next person even thinking of such a thing after drinking will immediately get sober thinking of the punishment.

All the actions that you are demanding can happen or may happen only if the issue is blown out of proportion.

Otherwise you see the airline tried all tricks to downplay and buttress the incident.

And there was a second similar incident too on a Paris - Delhi flight, that too involving man peeing on a woman. What have they got in their heads ?

[volkman10]

As a ritual, Air India acknowledges that it could have handled recent matters in a better way, both in the air and on the ground.

[ninjatalli]

Shankar Mishra nabbed in Bangalore

Sources privy to the investigation told India Today that the accused person’s last known location was Karnataka capital Bengaluru, where his mobile phone was switched off on January 3.

Now, it has emerged that the accused travelled to Bengaluru in a private taxi. He had been holed up in the city ever since a lookout circular was issued to prevent him from fleeing the country.

Link : https://www.indiatoday.in/india/stor...556-2023-01-07

[Geo_Ipe]

Proof that education, income nor social status are in any way superior to a proper upbringing when it comes to behaviour and etiquette. The belief that people in "power" can get away with anything has to disappear. The said superstar wouldn't have imagined that legal action against him would be possible, no matter what he did!

He should be taken to court and paraded in an adult diaper worn on top of his pants, Superman style!

[WorkingGuru]

Whatever occurred, happened as a consequence of him voluntarily consuming liquor. He deserves whatever legally & procedurally comes his way.

At the same time, mainstream media is absolutely making the airline crew a bigger devil than they are. I just read that the cabin crew & the pilot have been de-rostered.

To claim after a month, after having accepted money, that "despite her unwillingness", she was "forced by crew" to "confront the accused" (who was apparently pleading for forgiveness) and negotiate with him, "further disorienting her". This, to me, seems like a shakedown.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by WorkingGuru

Whatever occurred, happened as a consequence of him voluntarily consuming liquor. He deserves whatever legally & procedurally comes his way.

Correct, for every wrongdoing, there has to be a punishment. This guy should have turned himself in to the Authorities on his own.

I just read that the cabin crew & the pilot have been de-rostered.

Wrong to make everyone suffer, especially when there were reports that two of the stewardess did help clean her. Also, the Business class crew is separate. I will definitely find fault with the Pilot or someone who vetoed her to be moved to First Class seat.

To claim after a month, after having accepted money, that "despite her unwillingness", she was "forced by crew" to "confront the accused" (who was apparently pleading for forgiveness) and negotiate with him, "further disorienting her".

Yeah, but it's not a ground to dismiss the case.

AI could have handled it better; a return Business/ First Class voucher or a Taj Holiday coupon and a personal letter from the CEO or visit by someone senior might have calmed her.

Now, AI is an equal party like that offending person.

[fhdowntheline]

Why were they having discussions with the complainant instead of reporting this to the police upfront as a matter of a criminal act in public, even if the cabin crew failed to do so on the day of the incident.

Originally Posted by Amrik Singh

Soon a well known MP comes and honours the cleaned up Washroom by doing his business in there. The Crew flies during their duty, but even when off duty, they are flying above the ground. In fact, we know what they actually are.

I am glad that in this era of social media (toxic aspects aside), people in position of power have to act a bit less haughtily than they used to. In fact they should not be treated any better than a regular fare paying passenger.

[JoshMachine]

Captain of the flight made the traumatized lady wait for 2 hours before allocating her a fresh seat

News

Extract -

As the accused in the ‘pee-gate’ case was arrested on Saturday from Bengaluru, a co-passenger of the New York-New Delhi flight has revealed that, after the accused urinated on the old lady, the captain of the flight made the traumatized lady wait for 2 hours before allocating her a fresh seat.

The distressed passenger was made to go back to her soiled seat even as four seats were vacant in the first class of the Air India flight, Sugata Bhattacharjee, a US-based doctor of audiology said in a handwritten complaint to the airline.

Horrible, disgusting!

[WorkingGuru]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

... I will definitely find fault with the Pilot or someone who vetoed her to be moved to First Class seat... Now, AI is an equal party like that offending person

Pilots can come across situations where they have to decide whether its a valid/sufficiently serious complaint, or not, based on how the crew would've reported the incident.

Since these are people who, apart from taking care of passengers, are incharge of decisions incase of life threatening situations, IMO the crew report & their discretion to make decisions must hold more value than the passengers' claim.

Yeah, but it's not a ground to dismiss the case.

AI could have handled it better; a return Business/ First Class voucher or a Taj Holiday coupon and a personal letter from the CEO or visit by someone senior might have calmed her...

Who is to decide on what extent crew is responsible for the procedures after such alleged incidents, what immediate action is required to constrain alleged civil torts / criminal acts among passengers & what quantum of compensation is enough ?

My only concern is, if the crew is too busy comprehending & keeping track of such endless alleged disputes, where does this end but for a few discretionary powers, how will they viably carry out critical flight tasks?

I'm not trying to defend bad attitude by flight staff. But, IMO the less we trust crew and their discretion to decide what to do, the higher air travel will cost.

Originally Posted by Amrik Singh

...The Crew flies during their duty, but even when off duty, they are flying above the ground. In fact, we know what they actually are...

I can hope this was long³ ago, because present laws (& systemic procedures) aren't just foolproof, but very biased. I'm guessing people in power arrange to avail such services legally elsewhere in other countries.