[volkman10]

New rules framed after this incident; Air India being issued show cause notice:

[no_fear]

End of the day, it is a miserable fail by the captain, crew, flight-ops and the manager(s). In a way this is good that it happened, because this will be the no. 1 reason for a massive shakeup of Air India, and hopefully for a better change.

The incident reveals the short comings of the airline and the fixes that are needed. Behind closed door scenes, I suspect that SIA / SQ consortium is going to crack the whip on Tata and AI. With their 25% stake and the fact that the Singapore government is essentially bankrolling this AI / Vistara merger and pumping in more cash, they will not sit idle and let things go by.

Heads will roll fast and plenty over this.

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

Appreciate the empathy. However, one rule to remember is that you need to be excellent at your trade, if you wish to have the seat of respect. All other stuff you do is merely ornamental.

My remarks on the medical assistance to retired employees has been misunderstood in the context of this thread. When I made these remarks I mentioned it was off topic and made them because of my earlier remarks on things which were not creating an optimum working environment for its staff by Air India (AI). This was or is one of the things which AI is doing right for the benefit of its staff and obviously has no bearing on operations or to the customer.

Hope this clarifies

Cheers

[trail_lover]

The entire incident gives rise to two questions. By putting these questions, I am not in anyway vindicating the passengers who get inebriated and misbehave.

1) Shouldn't consumption of alcohol be banned aboard flights?

2) Should authorities or crew be given the power to randomly scan people with breath analyzers for high levels of alcohols or drugs in blood stream, before boarding? I mean randomly and not all passengers. Will this act as a deterrent?

I've noticed that many people like to consume alcohol before boarding trains, buses and flights.

If you'll like an anecdote here is one: On the Indian Railways where alcohol consumption is banned on trains, I've seen many times passengers bringing alcohol mixed in carbonated drinks in PET bottles and consuming it onboard the train. I once saw a man sip a bottle of Fanta for over an hour. I was wondering why is he is relishing that so much for such a long time. But then, finally, the smell from the drink gave him away. Looks like there are many ways of 'hiding' alcohol.

[SR-71]

Originally Posted by trail_lover

1) Shouldn't consumption of alcohol be banned aboard flights?

2) Should authorities or crew be given the power to randomly scan people with breath analyzers for high levels of alcohols or drugs in blood stream, before boarding? I mean randomly and not all passengers. Will this act as a deterrent?

The main reason airlines serve alcohol is to help people relax. For some it helps to nod off after a meal on those ultra-long-haul flights, for others it helps keep their frayed nerves under control. Arguably alcohol has more effect on high altitude due to the reduced oxygen level. So, one needs to be careful about what (s)he drinks. I personally prefer not to drink inflight cause I like to keep myself hydrated; alcohol has the opposite effect. However, on occasions where I have to do those 15 hr. non-stops, I do prefer a bottle of wine with the meal and that helps me sleep for the next 8 odd hours.

So, I respectfully disagree with your suggestions as experienced crew world over face this every day and know how to tackle it. In this particular case there were enough red flags to have prevented this, but the crew clearly were not up to the task. So no, airlines are not going to take draconian measures just because some pisser did not know how to keep himself in check!

[v1p3r]

It gets better. According to the other passenger's interview, the crew in J was instructed not to disturb the 'Commander' because it was his 'rest period'. So they let the poor lady stew in someone else's juices, rather than disturb the 'Commander' during his beauty sleep. In the end, it was two junior crew members from Y who took the initiative to wipe down and disinfect the lady's belongings.

If it's true, this fine specimen of (fill in your own epithet) should be permanently grounded. The only job he should ever hold henceforth is wiping down urinals.

Originally Posted by trail_lover

1) Shouldn't consumption of alcohol be banned aboard flights?

Why not ban alcohol altogether? There are so many instances of bad behaviour on alcohol. But then, there are also instances of bad behaviour without alcohol, so why not ban people? Banning is a slippery and reactive slope that absolves the guilty of all blame based on a culprit's free will and agency, instead placing it on an item that has been wilfully abused.

The Tatas are starting to show that they are not worthy of inheriting JRD's legacy.

[Jekyl87]

The incident reminded me of the only time I've traveled AI internationally more than a decade ago. This was just out of college, on my first job which required me to travel Delhi-Shanghai frequently. There used to be a 10-10.30 pm direct AI flight which used to be perfect (the only other direct one on that route being a China Eastern one which was unsuitable departure time wise). The flight used to be full of Indian grown men (I was still not an 'uncle' at that point ) with hardly any families on board. In every flight, there used to be at least 2-3 incidents of drunk men falling in the aisle, on their way to the washroom (I don't know the craft number, but I remember the washrooms being a few steps down, which were a recipe for disaster for drunk people), or of loud arguments. I remember because I liked to sleep during the flight and was always woken up by loud voices. Once, when the crew were serving drinks, I asked for a beer. The lady put 6 beer cans on my tray table. When I told her that I wasn't looking for 6, she replied "Sir, you'll keep pinging me and asking for more during the night. It's better you take them together". I was so embarassed that I took them and shut up. I kept the 5 cans in my overhead bag before we landed, and suprised my brother with 5 cans of Chinese beer that I got for him as Souvenirs

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Curious to know how food and beverage are served before take off. Which airline is this?

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Business class especially international travel this is normal. As in food and beverage to be served.

Right, no beverage or food can be served. Even in business class, they will serve a glass of Champagne with Canapes. No alcohol. And definitely nothing in Economy before take-off.

Originally Posted by Jekyl87

Once, when the crew were serving drinks, I asked for a beer. The lady put 6 beer cans on my tray table. When I told her that I wasn't looking for 6, she replied "Sir, you'll keep pinging me and asking for more during the night.

Include Jet, that too in Business. I was flying to Toronto so either she was from the back section doing duty in the premium cabin that day or super lazy. I asked for some Bourbon and that lady gave me a glass full and another with Ice. I did object. I recollect faintly some of the Airlines in past used to serve in small bottles. Maybe people misused and carried with them or even the crew. Very recently, experienced the desert wines/ port being served in small bottles by LOT Polish.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

It gets better. According to the other passenger's interview, the crew in J was instructed not to disturb the 'Commander' because it was his 'rest period'.

If it's true, this fine specimen of (fill in your own epithet) should be permanently grounded. The only job he should ever hold henceforth is wiping down urinals.

Janitors do a great job , and often take care of unmentionable spills without cribbing. That apart, even if the "commander" (a desi term that sounds so outmoded) was in his rest period, there surely was a designated captain on the flight deck ? Wouldnt that person be taking any sort of decision if at all that was the SOP?

Suppose this guy had a change of heart and suddenly went violent in his inebriated state? Would the flying captain not be informed? Or would they try to gently tap on the "Commander"'s shoulders and whisper in his ears about this development ?

[download2live]

What a shameful incident ! And what a pathetic handling of the situation !

I recall being in a Singapore Airline flight (Singapore-Kolkata) where a group of passengers became a bit too vocal on demand for more alcohol. The air hostess quickly let the matter to be known to the whoever was in charge. A male steward took over that aisle and the rest of the flight he spent in trying to pacify the passengers and reason with them on why no more alcohol will be served to them. They successfully bought time and flight landed without any events.

No airline can avoid bad passengers. But they can prepare and handle unruly ones.

[RunGaDa]

There is clamour and for the right reasons. Dignity of a woman was tossed out of the window. There were sober passengers sitting around all with their ironed up faces not allowing any trouble to crumple their fast ironed faces.
With all the media hullabaloo one thing sticks out is why do we not treat violations discreetly?
Why not follow a SOP?
Why not agree to the rules set by DGCA?
Is there no fear of punishment?
Looks like that is the case.
We bend or go around the rules so much that existence of an authority dealing with violations becomes redundant.

I hope the violator goes for a 5 year RI term.

[volkman10]

Incident on flight AI-142 from Paris to New Delhi on December 6 th.

Drunk passenger smoked in bathroom, another urinated on vacant seat.

One passenger was drunk, smoking in the lavatory, and not paying attention to the crew.

When a female passenger used the restroom, another passenger reportedly discharged himself on her empty seat and blanket.

Link

[frewper]

1) Shouldn't consumption of alcohol be banned aboard flights?

No why? Its not a threat of any sort to serve alcohol on flights. Cant just ban anything for an incident that occurred once. Do remember that on that fateful day there were hundreds of thousands of flights that took off around the world and most of them serve alcohol. One incident like this is not enough to ban alcohol everywhere.

2) Should authorities or crew be given the power to randomly scan people with breath analyzers for high levels of alcohols or drugs in blood stream, before boarding? I mean randomly and not all passengers. Will this act as a deterrent?

I've noticed that many people like to consume alcohol before boarding trains, buses and flights.

Well people do have the right to drink alcohol, but not be drunk in public. Unless they aren't causing nuisance its not against the law.

[charanreddy]

The incident was shameful and absolutely horrific for the senior citizen woman in question. As many members pointed out this was a failure at multiple levels. The airline failed to show empathy or any maturity in dealing with this matter. The treatment to the woman, to keep her soaked in urine for 2 hrs and not allotting an alternate seat is delay was unpardonable.

On the other hand I have seen esteemed members here call out for harsh punishment , bordering on abuse. The justice delivery system in our country seems to be influenced by media / public outcry. It’s great if wrongs are brought to notice of the authorities due to media. But the moment media starts witch hunting and influencing judiciary , it becomes a problem. It would have been great if the identity of the culprit was kept confidential keeping in mind his family ( young daughter, wife ) . Let him be punished commensurately with in the purview of the IPC. Let’s not pile up a wrong on top of one more wrong.

Also from my limited knowledge, bail is the norm and jail an exception in cases where the offence is punishable by less than 7 years jail. I am sure this person did not surrender and his attempt to evade the law went against him, but hopefully we don’t let media bias the larger justice delivery system to be unfair.

[McLaren Rulez]

I actually am starting to feel sorry for the captain. He's on his rest break and it is reasonable to expect that he isn't disturbed unless absolutely necessary. After all, he needs to fly the plane later. The situation the cabin crew encountered is obviously a nasty one but it is not an emergency. No lives are in danger here and the correct response is easy - help the woman clean up and move her.

Instead, the cabin crew behave like small helpless children when the parent is asleep by choosing to wait till the rest period is over instead of taking charge of the situation. Are these the same people who we entrust our lives with in a real emergency such as a fire or an evacuation of the aircraft?