[ruzbehxyz]

We all know that trains that leave Mumbai on CR towards Nashik and beyond, and south towards Pune and beyond, need banker engines at Karjat and Kasara to complete the ghat journey safety. Off late Indian Railways has announced Vande Bharat on two routes of Central Railway which will run without banker locomotives on the ghat section

The Vande Bharat Express between Mumbai and Solapur is to run via the Bhor ghat section and is expected to cover a distance of around 400 km between the two townships in 6.35 hours. The Mumbai-Shirdi one is expected to run via Thal Ghat and cover a distance of around 340 km in 5.25 hours. These trains will be flagged off on February 10 after successful trials.




Photo source: m-Indicator.

The Indian Railways achieved a major feat, which was not even thought of in the past 150 years, on Thursday with engineless trains negotiating the steepest railway track inclines in the country at Khandala and Igatpuri on their own, without any support. This feat was achieved with Vande Bharat Express—a self-powered electric train set. The train descended the Ghats on its way to Mumbai on Thursday evening. The prime minister is set to flag off twin Vande Bharat trains from Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj Terminus in Mumbai to Solapur and Shirdi on February 10. Currently, all trains that pass through the ghat stretch at Bhor and Thal Ghat halt before the ghat to attach banker locomotives.
Banker locomotives are powered engines which are attached to the back of the train to push it during the uphill climb and to stop it from losing control during the downhill stretch. This is needed as the inclines at Bhor in the Pune direction and Thal Ghat in Nashik direction have a gradient of 1:37, which means there is a 1-metre rise for every 37 metres.

The only existing train that does not halt for the banker locomotive is the CSMT Rajdhani Express. When Central Railway introduced this train in January 2019, it devised its own solution to negotiate the ghat section without external help by attaching an engine at both ends of the train.

A senior official, part of the preparatory team, said that Vande Bharat Express itself is powerful and may not require any assistance to climb the inclines. “What we have devised are parking brakes which are installed as an additional safety feature. These brakes will stop the train from rolling back or slipping ahead when negotiating the climbs. There will be extensive trials of parking brakes in the ghats. The trains will be introduced in passenger service only after the trials,” said the Central Railway official.

Source: Mid-Day.
Link: https://www.mid-day.com/mumbai/mumba...ibextid=Zxz2cZ

Sudhansu Mani, creator of Vande Bharat and retired GM of Indian Railways' coach factory, Integral Coach Factory, Chennai, said that the train will not need any banker since it has a pneumatic parking brake integrated with brake calliper. He also mentioned that the train is fitted with state-of-the-art computer controlled disc brake system which will help to negotiate steep down gradients, he added.

Source: Free Press Journal.
Link: https://www.freepressjournal.in/amp/...al-locomotives

[kosjam]

These trains really are iconic, at least from the Indian perspective. Its too bad the people mentality has not progressed in sync with the technology advancement in Indian Railways. The images of garbage strewn everywhere inside the coaches and general apathy towards the equipment provided are fresh in all our minds through the mainstream media.

We cannot blame education, or lack thereof for the same, as the ticket prices ensure that only the well heeled travel in such trains. There needs to be a targeted campaign to ensure the passengers are sensitized towards the upkeep and maintenance of equipment that has been purchased by their own taxpayer money.

Coming back on topic, with the aggressive push of the government towards such type of trains, it won't be long before most, if not all, passenger trains get converted to Vande Bharat type trainsets. The opening of 2 more coach factories in North India and West India point towards just such a type of future.

[jigar1791@gmail]

Originally Posted by kosjam

Its too bad the people mentality has not progressed in sync with the technology advancement in Indian Railways. The images of garbage strewn everywhere inside the coaches and general apathy towards the equipment provided are fresh in all our minds through the mainstream media.

For external elements damaging the equipment, isn't it more of a specific geography related issue? To be more precise, VBs working only in eastern India (HWH - NJP and NGP - BSP) are subject to external damages by anti-social elements.

I haven't heard or seen any media reports of stone pelting resulting in external damage to VBs operating in West (MMCT - GNC), South (MAS - MYS) or even the recently launched service up-north (NDLS - AADR).

Note : I'm not here to divide our society and the country on region-basis, but it's a fact we have to either accept and try to work on it, or just sit back and keep looking at it.

Coming back on topic, with the aggressive push of the government towards such type of trains, it won't be long before most, if not all, passenger trains get converted to Vande Bharat type trainsets. The opening of 2 more coach factories in North India and West India point towards just such a type of future.

It's no secret that the current govt will promote Vande-Bharat as an eventual replacement of Shatabdis in the near future (5 years, maybe?) and going forwrd, the Sleeper Vande-Bharat is meant to replace the Rajdhani fleet (10-15 years for sure).

However, the existing Mail/Express/Humsafar/Duranto etc are here to stay, for sure. Only about 10% of daily ticket bookings are in the Premium Trains, the rest ~90% of the bookings are towards the regular Mail/Express types.

IR offers multiple train options comforting every pax's pocket, from slow passenger trains to premium VBs/Rajdhanis.
Railways will not and cannot replace the bulk of it's service offering - the ordinary Mail/Express Trains. And that's not going to change, atleast not in our lifetime, as we Indians look at Railways as an organisation supposed to be doing Social Responsibility rather than a profit making entity (unlike in the EU).

[kosjam]

Originally Posted by jigar1791@gmail

For external elements damaging the equipment, isn't it more of a specific geography related issue? To be more precise, VBs working only in eastern India (HWH - NJP and NGP - BSP) are subject to external damages by anti-social elements.
However, the existing Mail/Express/Humsafar/Duranto etc are here to stay, for sure. Only about 10% of daily ticket bookings are in the Premium Trains, the rest ~90% of the bookings are towards the regular Mail/Express types.
IR offers multiple train options comforting every pax's pocket, from slow passenger trains to premium VBs/Rajdhanis.
Railways will not and cannot replace the bulk of it's service offering - the ordinary Mail/Express Trains. And that's not going to change, atleast not in our lifetime, as we Indians look at Railways as an organisation supposed to be doing Social Responsibility rather than a profit making entity (unlike in the EU).

Well the stone pelting issue is either political or mental stability issues, so I have not considered those in my post. I considered only the damage/litter caused by passengers travelling in the trains.

Regarding the non premium trains, they might bring in cheaper versions of Vande Bharat train sets which may not have air conditioning, just like jan shatabdi and non ac versions of Duronto are running. The advantage of the Vande Bharat type trainsets is better acceleration and leveraging of next gen technology utilized in the operations of the said train, to gain significant time and cost advantages.

[ruzbehxyz]

04.Feb.2023.


Source: The Times of India.

[tharian]

On the uphill trip, the train without bankers works since 8 coaches out of 16 are driven unlike a conventional rake where the power is mainly from the banking locos.
I am wondering about the down hill section where there are no 'braker' locos attached. Even with the brakes they have mentioned, they are bound to over heat and loose effectiveness.
On a conventional rake with brakers attached, there a three extra locos attached that do most of the dynamic braking plus rake braking. Probably why they will do multiple test runs to test this out.

[AkMar]

Originally Posted by tharian

I am wondering about the down hill section where there are no 'braker' locos attached. Even with the brakes they have mentioned, they are bound to over heat and loose effectiveness.
On a conventional rake with brakers attached, there a three extra locos attached that do most of the dynamic braking plus rake braking. Probably why they will do multiple test runs to test this out.

Brakers are not needed for any passenger carrying train in both the ghats. Only freight trains get brakers while descending.

Moreover the Vande bharats have regenerative braking which will mean reduced use of disc brakes. When trains without regenerative braking also descend ghats without losing braking power I do not see any reason why Vande Bharat won't be able to do the same.

[ruzbehxyz]

Originally Posted by tharian

I am wondering about the down hill section where there are no 'braker' locos attached. Even with the brakes they have mentioned, they are bound to over heat and loose effectiveness.
On a conventional rake with brakers attached, there a three extra locos attached that do most of the dynamic braking plus rake braking. Probably why they will do multiple test runs to test this out.

The Bhore Ghats comprise of 3 tracks. The 1st track is for traffic going from Karjat towards Pune, the 2nd track is bi-directional meant for two way traffic and the 3rd track , the oldest alignment is for traffic coming from Pune towards Mumbai/Kalyan.
All the UP Hill Trains towards Pune are attached with Bankers at the rear end of the Train, while the Down Hill only Freight trains are attached with extra locomotives for additional Braking.

A banker is a locomotive that assists in hauling a train up a steep gradient. A banker is attached to the rear of the train and pushes the train from the rear while the normal locomotive of the train pulls it as usual from the front.
Bankers are used for two reasons. One is that, of course, the leading loco may need assistance on a steep gradient. However, a more important reason to have a banker at the rear when ascending a grade is to protect the train from a possibility of coupling failure and consequent parting which would cause a portion of the train to hurtle backwards because of the gradient (guard's brakes being generally inadequate for such a situation).
On an incline, when the train is being pulled up, the couplers come under a lot of strain. Normally, on level track, the couplers only have to sustain the forces corresponding to the static and rolling friction of the wagons or coaches. But when being pulled up, a component of the wagons' or coaches' weight also forms a part of the load on the couplers (the proportion of the weight arising from the sine of the angle of the gradient). Hence, there is a much higher probability of coupler failure when going up an incline. Finally, the additional locomotives help contribute extra brake power for the rake on the slope.
Often two, three, or even more banking engines may be provided on particularly steep grades and for heavy freight loads. It is common to see 3 rear bankers for passenger trains with 21+ coaches. On the Igatpuri-Kasara section even descending trains get two or three front bankers. Sometimes, however, bankers are attached to trains simply because there are available locos that need to be returned to one shed or the other, and using them as bankers is a way to move them rather than sending them light and reducing track utilization. The working timetable for a division specifies the local rules in effect for how many and what kinds of locos to use as bankers for different kinds of trains and loads.
The safety requirements for train operation set forth by the Commissioner of Rail Safety forbid operating passenger trains on steep gradients without bankers. Goods trains are sometimes operated on such sections without bankers if loads are light. EMUs are sometimes moved between Pune and Mumbai for maintenance and no bankers are used in such cases on the ghat sections as they are not carrying passengers.
The specific rules for what inclines necessitate bankers may vary from one zonal railway to another. In addition, bankers must be used for gentler inclines if there are special circumstances such as operation without brake vans.
The limits on the tensile force the screw coupler can handle necessitate the use of bankers for most Mail or Express trains these days even on fairly gentle gradients of 1 in 60 or so, since the rakes have been getting longer (and therefore heavier) in recent years. Hence the Nagpur-Itarsi ghat section requires bankers for all passenger trains with 18 or more coaches. Many trains with 17 coaches are run through on the ghat section for fear of overstressing the couplers if a stop is made and the train has to start on the incline. With CBC couplers, the allowable tensile loads are far higher. Goods trains with CBC couplers often don't need bankers on slight to moderate inclines for train parting reasons, but may require bankers to assist the leading loco.
Often, brake vans are removed from the rake before a banker is attached at the rear, because the common 4-wheeled brake vans are light and do not share the same mass/inertia characteristics of the freight wagons, causing them to be jolted around excessively and very often jump the rails due to the buffing action between the wagons and the banker locos. A newer, long 8-wheeled brake van has recently been developed which may avoid this problem, at the cost of making the rake longer.
In addition to the use of bankers, ghat sections often have special rules of operation. Mandatory brake halts are provided for steeper grades so that a brake power check can be done before the train proceeds on to the grade. Stopping at the top of a grade before descending also ensures the train is under control before proceeding. In steam days it was often common, for the steeper grades, to inspect all the brake cylinders of the rake at the mandatory brake halt, with defective ones being replaced immediately. There are also timed signals provided in some places; the train must stop at the signal for a specified time before it goes off and the points switch away from the catch siding, ensuring that only trains able to come to a halt there can proceed. 'Auto Emergency Brakes' are provided for locos intended for use on several ghat sections. These apply the brakes automatically if the speed exceeds a certain threshold.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by tharian

I am wondering about the down hill section where there are no 'braker' locos attached. Even with the brakes they have mentioned, they are bound to over heat and loose effectiveness.
On a conventional rake with brakers attached, there a three extra locos attached that do most of the dynamic braking plus rake braking. Probably why they will do multiple test runs to test this out.

The extra locos not only provide dynamic braking but also contribute towards better air pressure across the rake right? That's because in case the compressor of the primary loco had an issue there won't be a chance of brake failure. In case of VB rake, its not just one point of regen braking rather 8 disributed power cars that can do this job. Compared to the wheel brakes in goods rake we have vastly superior disc brakes. Due to disributed power scrips across the VB rake there is not even the problem of coupler strain. Hence there isn't a need for any extra loco for banking or braking.

[vharihar]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

... A banker is a locomotive that assists in hauling a train up a steep gradient. A banker is attached to the rear of the train and pushes the train from the rear while the normal locomotive of the train pulls it as usual from the front. Bankers are used for two reasons ...

Brilliant write up, thanks, very informative!

[Fx14]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

It is common to see 3 rear bankers for passenger trains with 21+ coaches.

These multiple bankers are the older models still in use.

The CSMT Rajdhani Express which has a WAP7 engine at both ends of the train, does not need Banker locomotives.

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

EMUs are sometimes moved between Pune and Mumbai for maintenance and no bankers are used in such cases on the ghat sections as they are not carrying passengers.

The EMUs have 1 motor bogie for every 3 bogies. The Vande Bharat Express can be considered to be a more advanced version of the same logic with 8 motor coaches out of 16.

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

Stopping at the top of a grade before descending also ensures the train is under control before proceeding.

On the Pune - Mumbai route, the trains halt for a minute at Khandala station, as part of their brake testing before commencing the descent.


Basis the preliminary schedules released of the Mumbai - Shirdi Vande Bharat, it is surprising to observe barely any time saved (5 minutes only) compared to the next fastest Sleeper Train on the route, despite not having to stop for the bankers.

[ruzbehxyz]

Originally Posted by Fx14

The CSMT Rajdhani Express which has a WAP7 engine at both ends of the train, does not need Banker locomotives.

I have mentioned this in my first post.

The EMUs have 1 motor bogie for every 3 bogies.

Absolutely. Many years back there was a proposal to run locals from Mumbai VT to Pune but this plan was shelved due to time, as it would take more than 5 hours. By the way we already have locals from Lonavla to Pune and from VT to Karjat. The missing link was the ghat section. One of the restrictions was that EMUs are thicker than normal trains and hence would be too close to other trains and polls etc. This could be solved by using the extreme of the three tracks.

On the Pune - Mumbai route, the trains halt for a minute at Khandala station, as part of their brake testing before commencing the descent.

This is called technical halt. In fact there are actual technical halts on the Bhor ghat like Monkey Hill, Nagnath cabin, Thakurwadi. Years back Deccan express and Sahyadri express use to halt at all of these. Don’t know now.

[fhdowntheline]

They carried out this test run up the ghats without passengers. But they could have added dead weight like water tanks or something to simulate pax load safely ?

[ruzbehxyz]

Central Railway was to carry trials of the Vande Bharat today.



Vande Bharat successfully climbed the Kasara Ghat section without banker engines, seen approaching Igatpuri. Picture by Rail Enthusiast Kunal Khairnar from Nashik.

Soon we will get the news in various official channels.

[ruzbehxyz]

Vande Bharat successfully scales the Bhor ghat as well on trial run.

Photo from Jambrung cabin.

Photo courtesy: Pranit Gawand.