[julupani]

Do you think they will come out with cowl option immediately?? Also, over the years body manufacturers have got pretty good at making trucks out of Leylands and Tata cowl chassis. What kind of support would Daimler have to provide to them so as to be able to manufacture a body on a Bharat Benz?? For this they will have to seriously simplify their design.

We still haven't seen any cowls on test yet. Though I wish to but I am not entirely confident about seeing Bharat Benz cowls on sale anytime soon.

The basic cab design is that of the Axor range only, which was evident since the first mule was spotted. But it remains to be seen how much cost cutting has been done in the design.

[Ashley2]

Its not the question of I think or we think. It all started when Daimler started making their strip down exercise as early as 2006-07 of TM and AL products.
They started understanding the uniqueness of the Indian trucking industry and this made them to choose certain options in their products which were not offered else where.
That is the reason they went in for a India specific brand " Bharat Benz" - which itself a first time in Daimler's history, for developing a brand for a specific country.
we should understand that Cowls/FES will not tested seperately and they will be done with cabs only like TM and AL.
Also Daimler have made a extensive study with the private and local body builders to understand their requirements when a cowl is offered and asked to built body over them. Those design cues are considered and the same is incorporated. These are the inside stories of DICV - Daimler India Commercial Vehicles.
But even after this its the decision of giving cowl only option is the sole discretion of DICV.

[Latheesh]

Spotted yesterday. They were trying their best to avoid clicking!

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

Spotted yesterday. They were trying their best to avoid clicking!

Nice catch!! seems like the bus waala is going to squeez inbetween you and the BB truck.
@ashley sir, you rightly brought!! I am sure you have good links with inside sources. And I read in ToI today, that the trucking segment is heating up and BB had to open a seperate brand just because they did not find a suitable JV, as said by the Benz india head.

Global commercial vehicle big guns set to scorch Indian roads - The Times of India

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by julupani

Also something I notice now, Daimler have gone for an arrangement similar to the Tata 3118, ie is the rear 3 axles are bunched together. So most likely the extra front axle will be liftable and non-steerable, unlike the Leyland 31-tonners which have non-liftable but steerable 2nd front axles. The Tata/Bharat Benz type arrangement is, I think, more suitable for Indian conditions as the operator would like to reduce costs by lifting the extra axle when not required and compromising on turning raduis.

I think you are not aware of the merits of twin steerable front axles rather than a lift axle for 31T.
Following are the merits of steerable front axle:
-Most proportionate load sharing between front and rear axles(reason for all 31T mining tippers having twin front axles).
-Reduced tyre wear in FA2 as compared to RA1 lift axle as load sharing is higher.
-Reduced stopping distance.
-Trouble free, user friendly without much of complication in mechanism.
-Most importantly ease in reversing.

considering all these merits twin steerable front axles are preferred globally and it should be noted TM has also developed its version and they will launch Prima rigids with that config in near future(showcased in Autoexpo 2010)

when 31Tonners were launched few years back ( both AL and TM launched back to back) industry(Eicher,MNAL,AMW) followed with twin steerable front axle config only instead of lift axle.

Originally Posted by julupani

OT: When will we see 5-axle, 37ton GVW, rigids in India??? Considering how quickly the 31tonners are increasing its share, I think time is ripe for introducing 5-axle rigids.

Tata may come out with 37T rigids by August!

[julupani]

Originally Posted by Ashley2

I think you are not aware of the merits of twin steerable front axles rather than a lift axle for 31T.
Following are the merits of steerable front axle:
-Most proportionate load sharing between front and rear axles(reason for all 31T mining tippers having twin front axles).
-Reduced tyre wear in FA2 as compared to RA1 lift axle as load sharing is higher.
-Reduced stopping distance.
-Trouble free, user friendly without much of complication in mechanism.
-Most importantly ease in reversing.

considering all these merits twin steerable front axles are preferred globally and it should be noted TM has also developed its version and they will launch Prima rigids with that config in near future(showcased in Autoexpo 2010)

when 31Tonners were launched few years back ( both AL and TM launched back to back) industry(Eicher,MNAL,AMW) followed with twin steerable front axle config only instead of lift axle.

Tata may come out with 37T rigids by August!

I am very well aware of the advantages of twin steerable axles. But the point is to a normal Indian trucker, these advantages are far less important than the significant amount of savings that lifting the extra front axle gives him. And I think that factor has played a major role in the massive popularisation of 31tonners in the last one to two years.

Again with the Prima rigids, I think Tata stuck with the twin steering because that is the more internationally accepted version.

Even I had heard that the Prima rigids, 25,31 and 37 tonners were supposed to be launched mid this year. In fact they were going to be launched already, but there seem to be delays. Considering that the Prima rigids will be very costly, I think Tata dont want to launch it in a sort of time when the CV market and economy as a whole is going through a trough.

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by julupani

I am very well aware of the advantages of twin steerable axles. But the point is to a normal Indian trucker, these advantages are far less important than the significant amount of savings that lifting the extra front axle gives him. And I think that factor has played a major role in the massive popularisation of 31tonners in the last one to two years.

If you are speaking about the savings by lifting the axles then I should tell you are more into theory rather than into operating economics.
Assuming that there exists a considerable savings realized by the operator the entire industry will be behind this product only.
And all other manufacturers will be pushed to develop this technology and they cannot sell their products.
I agree with you principally there could be savings by lifting the axle but to what extent?
This is like increased fuel economy by fitting alloy wheels-logic being reduced weight increases fuel economy.

[julupani]

Its not at all theory at all. The point is most truckers in India operate one way with either no load or very light load. If you see what the major operating costs for a trucker are, tyres are pretty high up. Thus with the lift axle you can run two of those tyres for twice as long as the others. Most operators see this as a major enough cost. Even if a truck runs through 1 set of tyres a year, then you are still saving 10k rupees a year. For a small operator, this is a good amount.

I am not saying that its massive and will drive all other products out of the market. But if you look, I think Tata enjoys an very heavy market share in the 31 tonner segment. I live right next to the NH5, and I rarely see a Leyland 31tonner but regularly see Tata 3118s. And Daimler going in for something similar also says that, the lift axle factor is playing a part in the customer's mind.

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by julupani

I am not saying that its massive and will drive all other products out of the market. But if you look, I think Tata enjoys an very heavy market share in the 31 tonner segment. I live right next to the NH5, and I rarely see a Leyland 31tonner but regularly see Tata 3118s.

I really dont want to quote this but still I wanted to as you are too much pressing on the supremacy of TM over Indian CV industry - may be your internship has some sentiments but this often misleads new comers to forum.
But still no offense plz

Originally Posted by julupani

And Daimler going in for something similar also says that, the lift axle factor is playing a part in the customer's mind.

Daimler at time misleads industry -drum brakes in their buses are one example.
Though I can never comment on the any major problems in their product, when every one is going towards Disc they came out with drum.
This is the same case here.

[julupani]

Well, I just made an observation, and one which I have made myself and not heard from someone else. And I dont see it as misleading anybody at all. Unless anybody an share actual sales data or any other survey data, then I dont see it as misleading.

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by julupani

Well, I just made an observation, and one which I have made myself and not heard from someone else. And I dont see it as misleading anybody at all. Unless anybody an share actual sales data or any other survey data, then I dont see it as misleading.

@julupani. There is nothing wrong in your statement. And I agree with your observation. Our MR does suggest that the lift axle is preferred by the transport companies. This was done with transport operators in the Punjab, Haryana & Delhi area.

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

Our MR does suggest that the lift axle is preferred by the transport companies. This was done with transport operators in the Punjab, Haryana & Delhi area.

I agree that lift axle is preferred by customers, but I was just questioning the technical difference between them.

[kar.carthik]

Dear Bhpians,

Spotted the Benz truck last week on my way back from chennai. Saw it near vellore. There were 4 of them and all masked. Looked as if they were loaded. Was trying to take pictures and the driver of the truck immediately slowed down and started flashing his lights madly as if to say don't you dare. But some how manged to click a few. Sorry for the poor quality pics as they were taken on my mobile phone,by a friend who was sitting next to me.

The few things i noticed were that the entire height of the truck seemed to be very low when compared to the indian ones. Also it had 2+2+4+4 wheels (2 Front,2 Extra Rear and the usual 8 Rear wheels which is = 12 in total). The difference I noticed was that the Extra 2 wheels were right next to the rear wheels (In Leyland it is placed where the bay starts right after the cabin). Is is it Unusual?

Note : Mods,Kindly move to appropriate thread if mis-posted in the wrong thread. Thanks

[Zed]

Daimler took a fair amount of time to decide its CV strategy for India. Since its inception DICV has taken efforts to create an Indian entity from the ground up. The investment in Chennai is testament to this. Validation trials appear to be thorough. All pointers to a robust local strategy. Its unlikely that Daimler will let all these efforts go in vain with a misguided marketing strategy, as some comments in this thread suggest. If I were to bet my hard earned money, id vote that DICV would position their truck a notch above the Tatas and the leyland in the market, but avoid many of the whiz-bang technologies offered in other global markets to keep the cost vs value equation at a sensible level. The marketing message would center on the total cost of ownership and running cost per km to offset the higher initial purchase cost, eventually resulting in savings in the long run. Mercedes (Tata Benz of yore) enjoys an enviable reputation amongst the old timers in the trucking industry and that combined with a modern truck with a benchmark engine (by Indian standards for sure) is likely to be a winning formula.

[Ashley2]

After nearly 20 months of spotting first pics of Daimler's trucks in India, now the actual images are released officially.






some excerpts from press release.

On March 2, 2012, BharatBenz will unveil its entire truck lineup in the 6 to 49-ton range. The BharatBenz heavy-duty truck will be built on the Mercedes-Benz Axor platform, and the future light and medium-duty trucks will be based on the Fuso Canter and Fighter series. The new trucks will meet India’s BS III emissions standard [comparable to Euro III].

Source:www.Daimler.com