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-   -   Tata vs Ashok Leyland: CV & HCV only (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commercial-vehicles/81943-tata-vs-ashok-leyland-cv-hcv-only-24.html)

Anybody knows whats up with AL sales? Its been down 2 mths in a row.

May sales were down 12% YoY (Year over Year, ie. compared to May 2010). April sales were also down about 15% YoY. Thats 2 straight mths of decline (though Mar 2011 was up 21% YoY).

Tata commercial vehicles instead has seen a growth of about 19% YoY in Apr and May each, and 15% in Mar!

Thats what puzzled me. Generally the CV sales are generic indicators of overall trend.

Last month, in the Heavy trucks thread, I had pointed out the fall in sales of Leyland, but there was a chance that Leyland got hit more by the rise in prices. But 2 months in a row is a bit surprising to be honest.

Even more surprising as it is at a time when Tata is still generating good growth.

Not only that Leyland will now have a sizeable inventory of unsold vehicles. If you seen production figures reported by them in the last two months have been 8021 and 6466, totalling to 14487. While total sales in the last 2 months have been only 11268. That leaves a vehicle inventory at the factory and regional depots of over 3000, assuming no inventory at the start of the financial year. This is a pretty dangerous situation.

Check out AL's facebook page.

Welcome to AL's Facebook Page

This doesnt look like an official page to me. Is it??

A small Video I found on Buses of Sri Lanka. "Lanka Ashok Leyland"(A Public Ltd Company) Dominates the Scene, it seems.
YouTube - ‪Sri Lanka,

It looks like a small-medium sized TN city! A handful of TM buses in between an army of ALs. The names of some buses are funny, like "Trible i"

The goods carrier seen between 00:18 and 00:22, and 00:42 and 00:49 (HIJET) looks strikingly similar to the AL DOST.

Tata Motors definitely have good number lined up in future months as well, as it has bagged an order of 1,111 CVs from Surat-based Siddhivinayak Logistics Ltd. Here is the link to the report:

Tata Motors bags order for 1,111 trucks from SVLL - PTI -

No surprise there at all SVLL is a longtime Tata loyalist, with an almost exclusive Tata fleet. They also happen to be one of the largest operators of the Tata Prima tractors. They are also a big logistics provider to Tata Motors.

When it comes to buses - most state transport corporations, atleast in South India are predominantly Ashok Leyland.
In Chennai, there are a few Tata Marcopolos in the MTC. Everything else is AL.
Lorries - I'd say there is a 60 : 40 split favouring Leyland.

In terms of intercity/ long distance buses by private operators, ALL seems to have a larger foothold than others.

The Daimler MD and HD trucks score on the common pitfalls of the Indian majors, this I got to know from the owners of fleets,
1. Gearbox life - As high as 5 lakh KMs, conventional ones dont last half of it.
2. Fuel Economy - about 35% higher than Tata/ ALs
3. Service Intervals - 1000 hours which incidentally is being extended to 2000 hours for new ranges.
4. Driver comfort and NVH scores a top notch.

While one can agree with the aggregate life being higher for Daimler offerings, the fuel efficiency being 35% higher cannot be digested. Close to 65% of all operating costs for M& HCVs is the fuel cost and if there is anybody offering 35% more, then the others would just shut shop and cease to operate in this line of business. The fuel efficiency difference AFAIK may not be more than 5-10% as the technology offered and driveline resistance may not be very different between the players. If its Common Rail tech making the difference, ALL and TML have it too. 4 valves per cyl ?? TML and ALL has that as well. Finally it boils down to the driveline ratio, driveline resistance and engine calibration where TML and ALL have their capabilities as well. Of course radial tyres do give 2.5% to 5% more FE but then can be fitted onto TML and ALL trucks as well.

Since the operator in question mentioned the service intervals in terms of no of hours and not kms, it is clear that he is a Tipper operator and fuel efficiency comparison between tippers is the most tricky thing to do as even a minor variation in terrain can give hugely different values between trucks. Secondly, pls also check if the load bodies of the trucks in question have the same capacity. In tippers, Fuel efficiency is calculated as per the amount of earth carried(its liters per ton than hour or kilometer). TML and ALL afaik offer larger load bodies compared to BB so a direct comparison may not be relevant again.

Regarding driver comfort - I feel the semiforwards are better, since the driver cabin is not located exactly above the wheels. This is where Ashok Leyland never really tried anything. Tata always had the semiforwards (1210 series, 1613 hymiler etc).

However the irony is that the Tata semiforwards have the least cabin accessories. Prima / other COE designs have AC comforts, and the cab of the Prima can compete with some cars.

Also the conventional / semiforwards are more aerodynamic than the flat-faced trucks.

The irony is that semi-forwards are better for long-distance hauls, but their comforts are only for city-travel. Also the COE styling is better for city travel with the visibility, but they have options for comfortable cabs, and better engines.

In Chennai it is common to see the Tata 1613 Hymiler used today solely as a tipper.

Even DICV haven't claimed so much when they launched. And after launch now they are almost super silent. Except cab comfort (that too only when compared to wooden cabs built by customer) none of the above claims reflects the actual scenario.

Just for your information, service intervals at 1000 hrs are standard in U trucks since 2010. As of now AL has the highest oil change frequency at 1000hrs - Tippers / 80000 kms - on road truck/bus.

The hypothesis of only SFC trucks have better cab comfort is not necessarily right. There were days, when SFC trucks had advantage over NC trucks due to shorter overhangs in select applications like river bed sand movement.
Earlier even a 12T were with SFC from Tata and they had good level of difference in grade ability in comparison to their NC counter parts.
They were very thin in terms of specifications like 12V, hydraulic brakes etc and were price competitively.
But over a period of time due to development of good portfolio in tippers, SFC trucks are loosing grounds. The TIV is around 10k and it may gradually fad over a period of time.

So the fact is no one, even Tata will not invest in a SFC trucks for long haul applications.\

On the fact of aerodynamics, for the average speed these trucks travel doesn't make really any sense.
Then by that logic only Volvo and Scania should have SFC Multi axle coaches.

Found this interesting bus built by S M Kannappa - Prakash from Bangalore. Its on an Ashok Leyland 12M rear engine chassis. Air conditioner running off the engine and semi-sleeper seats. This is as close as one can get to a Volvo B9R or a Scania 12M coach