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Old 16th August 2018, 12:06   #136
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Re: My Car Hobby: A lot of fiddling, and some driving too! Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123 & Alfa Romeo Sp

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
I replaced my 16.5 year old Fiat Palio 1.6L engine's timing belt last Saturday. The engine oil (Shell HX7 10W-40 semi synthetic) and filter were changed plus the car got a coolant and brake fluid flush.

For the timing belt I had to take the help of a Fiat specialist as I do not have the workshop manual and I'd rather not take chances with misaligned valve timings. The process was not intricate as with the chain in your Mercedes engine.
.
Good job. If you can't do it yourself, watch someone doing it! It is very enlightening. If I dont do the job myself, I always try to watch them. It is not that I don't trust them. It is genuinely interesting to see real experienced professionals work on cars. I always pick up some usefull insights, learn something new.

A few weeks ago I took the W123 to a specialist to get a second opinion on the steering box. As soon as he started the engine, he immediately noticed a very small clunk and knew what it was. I had noticed it before, but never managed to diagnose it properly. But he knew it, put the car on his lift and adjusted the central engine mount brackets. In fact this particular bracket is made by MB to be adjustable. As the main engine mounts wear, the engine over time sits a bit lower in the chassis. The central engine mount can be adjusted for this. I never knew, never came across it in my manuals either.

In all honesty, I do believe that in general replacing timing chains tends to be easier then replacing timing belts. If anyting, usually for the chains you don't need any special tools. To your point, for a belt you usually need to be able to fix various parts. Although very often you might be able to improvise with clamps, tie-wraps, certain engines simply require the proper fixing tools.

Also, on most engines with a chain, it just requires removing the valve cover (and in my case air filter etc). But it tends to be limited in terms of spannering. On this particular engine it took maybe 15 minutes taking off the air filter, valve cover, spark plugs and loosening up the alternator to get at the tensioner.

Once you have access to the cam sprocket you are good to go! Nothing else needs to come off. I must have taken all these bits on and off at least 6-7 times in the last few days trouble shooting the noice. So I can do it blindfolded in under 10 minutes now! That's experience for you!

It seems that chains are typically found in older cars/engines and these days more and more cars are equipped with belts. ( I seem to recall a thread discussing this sometime ago?) Of course, in addition, we see more and more transverse engines. And that also means in many cases it is just more difficult to get at. Simply less room to work.

My W123 with it's huge engine room and relatively small 2.0L engine is easy to work on. Because it is a fourty year old simple engine to start with, very well designed for maintenance and very accessible. Also, on these old cars lots of information available via the Interent of course. I have at least 7 or 8 different English and German manuals on this car.

Did you replace the tensioner as well? If not, any specific reason. Also, on some of these engines the timing belt sometimes drives the (cooling) pump. (VW springs to mind).

In Europe when you (or the dealer / independent workshop) does these sort of jobs, everything will always be replaced. Replacing the belt to have to open it up a year later to replace for instance the pump is just not economical. Labour rates are high and often outweigh the cost of parts. So when you have a big spanner job taking lots of hours, you might as well replace everything that you get access too as you take the engine apart.

I hope I have not damaged anything on my engine with this one tooth-out allignement. We checked that the engine could rotate freely two full turns before we put it back together and fired it up. Also, yesterday evening during the check I made on the oil system working properly, this little engine spun around very happily on the starter motor without making any untoward sounds. So I am hopeful by resetting the chain everything should be fine again!

As soon that is done, I will take the steering box off to take it back to the place that overhauled it for me some 12 years ago.

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 16th August 2018 at 12:14.
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Old 16th August 2018, 17:13   #137
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Re: My Car Hobby: A lot of fiddling, and some driving too! Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123 & Alfa Romeo Sp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Good job. If you can't do it yourself, watch someone doing it! It is very enlightening. If I dont do the job myself, I always try to watch them. It is not that I don't trust them. It is genuinely interesting to see real experienced professionals work on cars. I always pick up some usefull insights, learn something new.
I agree about the specialist. I prefer not to take risks and would rather have it done right first time than to resort to guess work which may damage the motor or other parts of the car. FCA as a company have not been doing well in this country despite selling very good cars. The service network leaves much to be desired.

I am not too familiar with Euro car engines and but have worked quite extensively on maintaining and tuning Japanese cars & bikes. The most recent was in June on my Toyota - a brake rotor and pad change on all 4 wheels. This Toyota has a 1.8L chain driven cam with hydraulically variable valve timing which adds additional complexity to any timing chain replacement. This is one job I would certainly entrust only to an authorised service centre.

Quote:
Although very often you might be able to improvise with clamps, tie-wraps, certain engines simply require the proper fixing tools.
IIRC most cars require tools/jigs to lock the camshafts and crankshaft pulleys in place whilst installing the belt. The mechanic who helped me (actually I helped him the roles were reversed more often than not) didn't have the tools but we managed as there were two pairs of eyes keeping a close watch on the pulleys and their alignment with the marks on the block. Sorry no pics since I wore no gloves and my hands were too greasy and smudged to handle my mobile phone otherwise I'd have shared them on this thread.

Quote:
So I can do it blindfolded in under 10 minutes now! That's experience for you!
Very true. There's no replacement for experience.

Quote:
It seems that chains are typically found in older cars/engines and these days more and more cars are equipped with belts. And that also means in many cases it is just more difficult to get at. Simply less room to work.
As mentioned my Toyota has a transversely mounted engine with a chain driven camshaft. Belts are less noisy but the chains seem more durable at least in Jap machines. There's no replacement schedule as such as far as I know. The Corolla has sufficient space around the sides as the chassis was designed to take a 2.4 L engine in the US (the Corolla XRS model which has now been discontinued). My car has the 1.8L. The Fiat engine bay is cramped by comparison.

Quote:
My W123 with it's huge engine room and relatively small 2.0L engine is easy to work on. Because it is a fourty year old simple engine to start with, very well designed for maintenance and very accessible. Also, on these old cars lots of information available via the Interent of course. I have at least 7 or 8 different English and German manuals on this car.
4 decades old and still working well. Precisely the kind of European/German (and MB) automobile engineering that I grew up admiring. Wish the newer cars were this hardy.

Quote:
Did you replace the tensioner as well? If not, any specific reason. Also, on some of these engines the timing belt sometimes drives the (cooling) pump. (VW springs to mind).
No I did not replace the tensioner. It was in perfect condition just need a little spritz of WD40 on the mechanism to get it working freely. The bearing in the roller was perfect. We just reinstalled it.

Quote:
In Europe when you (or the dealer / independent workshop) does these sort of jobs, everything will always be replaced. Replacing the belt to have to open it up a year later to replace for instance the pump is just not economical. Labour rates are high and often outweigh the cost of parts. So when you have a big spanner job taking lots of hours, you might as well replace everything that you get access too as you take the engine apart.
As you have lived in India you'd know the situation here is the opposite of Europe. Labour is comparatively cheap. I spent less than 50% of the cost of spares on labour costs.

Only thing is these guys tend to take short cuts which I am not happy with being a stickler for details. For e.g. a caliper pin had failed due to a rubber bushing at the tip swelling up and jamming the pin. The caliper boots were degraded. Obviously someone used the wrong (petroleum based grease) which destroyed the rubber parts. I just decided to replace them (and other stuff) as mentioned in the earlier post. To me the brake system = zero compromise.

I'll be continuing to follow this thread (and your other threads) with much interest. Once again, thank you for sharing in such detail!

Cheers!
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Old 17th August 2018, 11:51   #138
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Re: My Car Hobby: A lot of fiddling, and some driving too! Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123 & Alfa Romeo Sp

Some time ago I noticed the stitching on my leather steering wheel in the Spider was coming apart:

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3326.jpg

I am very attached to this little steering wheel as it so happens. It is older then any of my cars!

When I graduated from Naval college I went out on a tour on a ship for some 6 months or so. When I got back I had three months leave due. It was my very first proper job and I had made some good money. The first thing I did was buy myself a very nice car.

I choose a second hand Fiat 132 (even in those days I only bought second hand).

Here is the only photograph I have of it. It’s an old photograph from a photo album I made (as you did in those days) early 80’s. Very convenient app called Photoscan lets you take digital images from paper photographs. This image was taken shortly after I bought the car. A good friend of mine and I went on a two week touring holiday. We started driving down the French coast line to see the famous beaches where the second world war invasion started. So this is most likely somewhere in Normandy in 1980!

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-image1.jpg

In those days, this was quite a luxurious car. It had a two liter fuel injection engine, power steering, electric windows and a very posh interior. It drove well. Once I bought it the first thing I did was to replace the standard steering wheel with a sports steering wheel. I choose a so called Personal Steering Wheel. Not sure if the brand still exists? They made all sorts of very fancy steering wheels. Nothing to fancy about this one. It is only a fraction smaller than most steering wheels, but it has a really thick leather rim. You would buy the steering wheel and the hub separately. The hub was car manufacturer/model specific. It also came with the respective badge of the car on the centre of the steering wheel, which doubles up as the horn. With the hub mounted on the steering column the steering wheel bolts on with 6 small bolts. So it is very easily removed. Getting a steering hub of the column can be a bit of a bear! You will need a proper pulley puller.

I had the 132 for some three years or so. When I moved from my parents home in the Netherlands to Brighton UK to start living with my future wife I sold it. We bought a brand new Talbot Samba for my wife. The only new car we have ever bought. My wife had just got her driving license and was still nervous about driving and did not like the idea of a second hand car at all. Also, in those days she worked for the NHS. Her job required her to travel all over East and West Sussex. In those days, if your job required you to travel, the NHS would provide you with a loan at virtually no interest. But the only rule was, you had to buy a new car.

So we bought the Samba, because my wife thought it looked cute. No other criteria mattered. I took my Personal Steering Wheel out of the Fiat, bought a new Talbot hub and mounted it in the Talbot Samba. Even my wife liked it. It really improves your driving experience.

Eventually we sold the Talbot Samba when we moved to the Netherlands some four years later. It ended up in my Spider. Although not everybody agrees, I think it looks good. Also, me being tall and the Spider being small, it is convenient to have a somewhat smaller steering wheel fitted. So I have slightly more room between the steering wheel rim and the gear stick. (This is how you sit in a Spider)

So this steering wheel is probably some 38 years old and it has a lot of sentimental value. As it so happens my local newspaper showed a feature article on a local classic repair shop. Never heard of them, so I went to see them. Really nice, two guys, working mostly on Jaguars. Very good level of workmanship.

They gave me the name of the company they always use for all their upholstery work. Phoned them on Monday morning. Took the steering wheel on Tuesday and I picked it up Thursday.

Looks fine again, and a very reasonable cost too:

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3337.jpg

This upholstery company specialises in leather mainly for high end classic cars. Small company and you still deal with the owner, Tony, himself. We had a long chat about cars, repairs, other companies we both knew. Always very useful to meet and get aquatinted with new people who are knowledgeable about the classic car scene.

I will be taking my Jaguar to him in the next couple of weeks. Especially the leather of the drivers seat is badly worn. Upholstery is one area I simply have no clue as how to fix it. I will happily leave it to specialist.

So, one repaired steering wheel and I have met two new guys, each running a very interesting classic car shop. For me part of the fiddling with cars. Keeping old cars on the road, becomes easier the more people you know!

Last edited by Jeroen : 17th August 2018 at 11:53.
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Old 25th August 2018, 14:44   #139
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Re: My Car Hobby: A lot of fiddling, and some driving too! Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123 & Alfa Romeo Sp

In preparetion of things to come, chain wise, I thought I would at least fix the spark plug connector as I already received the new one earlier.

On most of these cables I have worked on, you just simply unscrew them. So I put the cable, carefully, in my vice and started rotating the connector anti clockwise. And sure enough it began to come loose. Unfortunately, not in the way I was expecting. This one is of the non-unscrew variety and I had twisted the cable to the point where the insulation just snapped.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3345.jpg

Back to the drawing board, or rather the internet to find out what my options are. The spark plug cables on this Mercedes are of four unique lengths. I found several places you can order each cable separately. But then I found I could order a whole new set, including the HT cable between distributor and coil for only slightly more then double the price of an individual cable. So I ordered the set. Might as well. Arrived yesterday

Also, just in case I ordered three chain links, just in case we get it wrong and have to redo it a few times.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3346.jpg

Funny story with the chain links. I ordered them by phone from my local Mercedes dealer. Everything I order arrives overnight. So I went to pick them up a couple of days ago after work on my way home.

I arrived at the warehouse and asked for my order. The guy told me he had unpacked them earlier that day. But when he tried to find them in their computer system it turned out he had not properly registered them. All Mercedes dealers have these very advanced robotic/automatic spare parts handling system. About 150 trays 2x1meters stacked on top of each other, filled to the brim with parts and handled by robots.

No way you can find a small part in those. Appeared this guy was pretty new to the job and as he was trying to sort it, his boss walks in. I know him as I have been coming here quite a few times in the last months. So we have a little chat and he quickly figures out this isn’t going to work. So he apologises and suggest they just order new ones as it is likely to be quicker than to try and find three tiny plastic bags in this huge automated system!

Finally, my favourite toolshop had this neat measuring set on special. Very cheap. It is a measuring clock and a magnetic holder. If everything fails with the timing chain we need to resort to checking the valve positions, and you need a measuring device like this. Comes in handy for all sorts of other jobs too. E.g. checking for warped discs/rotors.

So last evening I cycled over to Gouda (44km) and picket one up. At the check out counter they always have other small goodies on special. Also picked up this little LED with a magnetic base. It even comes with three spare batteries. It cost two Euro’s. I can’t even buy a cup of coffee these days for two Euros’

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3344.jpg

Anyway, we are all set for Tuesday evening. Spanner mate Peter is coming to help again and we have already discussed the tactics on how we are going to move this chain one tooth on the sprocket of the camshaft.

Jeroen
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Old 25th August 2018, 15:19   #140
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Re: My Car Hobby: A lot of fiddling, and some driving too! Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123 & Alfa Romeo Sp

Hey Jeroen,

Just wanted to appreciate your work on this forum. There are hardly few people who document all the small nicks and details. And yes, I really envy your garage and tool collections.

I always had a dream of owning a house with a garage as i love to work on my machines but this seems impossible for me in the coming future due to various circumstances. Seeing your thread is like a ray of hope.

All the very best and please keep documenting everything in the same way.

Cheers!
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Old 25th August 2018, 16:02   #141
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Re: My Car Hobby: A lot of fiddling, and some driving too! Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123 & Alfa Romeo Sp

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post

. When I moved from my parents home in the Netherlands to Brighton UK to start living with my future wife I sold it. We bought a brand new Talbot Samba for my wife. !
That was really a Peugeot 104 with another badge. This must be the least most interesting car you have ever had. What made you choose this? I would have preferred a Renault 5 or a Peugeot 205 in that era.
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Old 25th August 2018, 22:12   #142
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Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
That was really a Peugeot 104 with another badge. This must be the least most interesting car you have ever had. What made you choose this? .

It was not my choice. As I said, it was my wife's choice. She thought it was a cute car and that was the end of the discussion. Mind you, I always get the last word in; Yes dear!

Jeroen
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Old 29th August 2018, 09:26   #143
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Re: My Car Hobby: A lot of fiddling, and some driving too! Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123 & Alfa Romeo Sp

Last night spanner mate Peter came around again and we went to work on the timing chain.

First we cut off the link, then with Peter lifting the chain of the sprocket of the cam shaft I used a wrench to slowly rotate the camshaft clockwise just so the chain moved exactly one tooth. We had marked the chain and tooth before so we knew exactly what we were doing.

Re-attached a new link, turned the engine over two full turns, check the timing marks on camshaft and crankshaft that were lining up perfectly. Finally, riveted the chain properly. Sorry, no images, we were to focussed and busy with this chain to take new images. But the detailled procedure we followed is very similar as to the first time. In this case effectively all we had to do was lift the chain of the sprocket, turn the sprocket one tooth and Bob’s your proverbial uncle!

We also replaced the spark plugs and HT leads. Fired up the engine and I am happy to report everything sounds well again!!
It looks us about 35 minutes to reset the chain on the sprocket and another 35 minutes to replace the leads and put everything back together again

Happy this turned out well. Next I need to take the steering box off to get it overhauled once again.

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 29th August 2018 at 09:31.
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Old 30th August 2018, 01:43   #144
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Re: My Car Hobby: A lot of fiddling, and some driving too! Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123 & Alfa Romeo Sp

Today I removed the steering box on the Mercedes W123. It needs seeing to be a proper revision/overhaul specialist, so out it had to come!

I have done this several times in the past, but I must admit the distance past! Last time was probably about ten years ago. But my Mercedes manual has a very detailled procedure and it is all pretty straight forward.

So here is how it all looks now after our chain escapade. I must admit I am particularly pleased on how we managed to put the spark plug leads back in their original ducts. It looks very neat. I like that!

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p8294475.jpg

First thing is to try and empty out the hydraulic system as much as possible.

I cheat a bit on the MB procedure. I just disconnect the high pressure hose, put it into a canister, start the engine and let it run till no more oil comes out!. Very effective!! I need to get some more fresh hydraulic oil. I already have the filter.

Then also disconnect the return hose.

Next is the steering coupling which connect the steering shaft coming out of the steering box with the steering bush towards the steering wheel.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p8294476.jpg

Undo two bolts and then you need to pry and push off the coupling. Although not meant for it, I find this tool is very useful and it fits perfectly!

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p8294478.jpg

Here you see it in action, also if you look carefully I had to stick a very large and wide screwdriver into the coupling to push the parting joint apart in order for the coupling to move.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p8294479.jpg

Next, underneath the car disconnection the drag link and track rod. I jacked up the car, put axles stands underneath and took the left front wheel off for better access.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p8294481.jpg

Undo the self locking nut and then with a special puller you can force the the ball joint of the the track rod of the pitman arm.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p8294482.jpg

Next the other side. Similar although this one had a castle nut with a split pen. It took me almost 30 minutes to get the split pen out!.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p8294483.jpg

Next step is to undo three bolts in de left wing that hold the steering box to the chassis. On your own it gets a bit fiddly as you need to support the steering box as you take out the last bolt. I put some styrofoam underneath that kept the steering box in place as I undid the bolts with my pneumatic ratchet.

Here you see the steering box removed! I have left the pitman arm on. It is just impossible to remove that yourself. You need specialised hydraulic equipment!!

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p8294484.jpg

So I cleaned up the steering box and it is all wrapped and boxed up to be send away for its overhaul tomorrow.

I said it before; I like my workshop very neat, tidy and clean. After every job I usually clean all my tools, put them away properly, sweep the floor. Working on the hydraulics I had spilled some fluid. My epoxy paint is perfectly capable of withstanding any hydraulic fluid. But I wipe up everything with paper towels. Then I spray special degreaser on the floor and run a mop over it.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p8294485.jpg

Clean, neat and tidy is also safe! and anything you do drop accidentally is easier to spot!

I put the wheel back on the car and lowered it off the jack stands. It might be a few weeks before I get my steering box back.Check the position of the right and left front wheel.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p8294486.jpg

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p8294487.jpg

When you look underneath the car it becomes apparent why it looks so wonky.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p8294488.jpg

Tomorrow evening Peter and I are leaving for our five day trip to the UK, Isle of Wight, Beaulieu International Car Jumble and Wales. Really looking forward to it.

Spider is all ready, polished and the little clamp on the window is still attached. So far so good!

i will most likely write a separate travel thread on our trip. Next week Saturday after we are back from our trip, my eldest son Luc is coming round with his Golf GTI. Needs a service and we will continue the battle with all of his electronic gremlins. I have done a lot of research, bought several workshop manuals, checked a lot of VW forums. I have a pretty good idea on what we need to do. Appears that a lot of these problems are caused by a chaffed wire. Simple to repair but you need to take half the engine out before you can get at it.

Stay tuned for more!!

Jeroen
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Old 11th September 2018, 13:15   #145
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Re: My Car Hobby: A lot of fiddling, and some driving too! Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123 & Alfa Romeo Sp

Last weekend my eldest son Luc came over with his Golf GTI MK IV. It needed an oil change and there were a few other outstanding jobs that needed doing as well.

My son knows the drill; When he arrives initially he backs his car into the garage leaving the front wheels just on the entrance. That gives us a little bit more room to get the oil drip tray underneath.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9084490.jpg

He had done about 15.000 km and according to the Golf manual it only needed an oil and an oil filter change. Pretty straight forward.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9084491.jpg

i have written about the various electronic problems he has been having. The most persistent is the fact that his speedometer is not working and the fuel gauge behaves erratically. It shows various codes. I have been doing a lot of research and bought some dedicated VW manuals. It is either a wiring problem or a sensor problem. The other day on a UK VW Gold forum I found a long thread with at least a dozen people having identical problems. One guy managed to find it; He found a particular wire broken. But you had to take insulation off, before you could see and fix it. Worked for everybody.

Our problem so far was that we could not find the speedsensor or it’s wiring. If anything this forum also showed where the speedsensor and the wiring was located. So now we knew what to take apart.

Unfortunately, I forgot to take photographs, so you have to take my word for it. You have to remove the battery, parts of the trimming and then the battery tray and various other bits and pieces. Lo and behold at long last we could see the sensor and the wiring. But it was still in a different place from what we had seen on the UK forum.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9084492.jpg

Still, we managed to do undo the connector and do a very thorough inspection of each wire. Nothing wrong with the wires as far as we could tell. So the next thing would be the sensor. A quick search on the internet and a subsequent call to my local car parts store confirmed they had the correct sensor in stock. And it wasn’t very expensive and they let me return if it doesn’t fit. So we quickly drove over only to find that it was a very different sensor. All the various websites show the same type for this car, but it is not what is fitted. So we need to check with VW service first what is going on.

Anyway, a little progress, we know the location of the sensor, we know how to get at it and some of the suspected wiring seems to be in order.

Last time we checked also the left front ABS sensor as it is part of the speed measurement circuit as well. We noticed, as we took the wheel off, that the rotor was missing it’s retaining bolt. Not a huge thing, but I got four new ones, so we took all wheels off. Only to find it was in fact only the front left rotor that had the bolt missing. Here you see it fitted. It just holds the rotor in place when you take a wheel off. So nothing else, but I don’t like it when these sort of things are missing

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9084493.jpg

The back of the passenger seat had come loose as well. So we had a look. Two little plastic clips had both broken. They looked very similar to clips I have on my Alfa Romeo and I stock vast quantities of these clips. On old cars, these plastic bits get very bridle over the years. Often they brake when removing trimming.

Sure enough, perfect fit. So that was fixed too! Need to do some more research on the speed sensor. To be continued.

Only a week ago I came back from a five day journey in the Spider. i wrote a thread about that adventure:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/trave...d-trip-uk.html (Two guys, two Alfa Romeo Spiders, several ferries - A road trip in UK)

So time to clean the Spider. In fact I was surprised how clean it was on the outside. The very very heavy rain we encountered on the last stretch on our home run from the ferry had washed off just about all dust and mud already!

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9094494.jpg

We had no problem with our Spider during those five days of heavy and intense driving. One small problem with Peter’s battery but that turned out to be pilot error. There was one other small problem though, although I did not write about it. My radio stopped working.

I have this really cool Kenwood Mask Radio/cassette/CD changer. I am not quite sure but it must be probably 12-15 years old. It was a birthday present from my mother in law when she visited us in the Netherlands at that time.

Have a look:



So this radio, when switch off, turn it’s display away. Also, at the rear a pin will extend through the casing, making it very difficult to remove / steal the radio.

The display is connected to all the electronics by means of a flat cable. This cable is known to break after prolonged use. It’s a wonder mine lasted as long as it did. But then again, I don’t drive the Spider daily and I listen to the exhaust noise more often than the radio.

So I took the radio out last night:

I still retained the original little tools that came with the radio. On the left you see the surrounding mount I took off to get at the chassis of the radio. You use the little wire hooks to pull it off. The two long things are marked left and right. You insert them to the side of the radio and they unclip the radio from the chassis that is mounted in the dashboard and you can just pull the radio out.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104501.jpg

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104498.jpg

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104499.jpg

Undo the various connectors and that is all there is to it.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104500.jpg

These days just about every car comes with a built in radio/CD player etc. But not to long ago cars were never equipped with anything and you always had to put a radio in yourself or have the dealer do it for you when buying a car.

Here is what a car radio looks on dry land so to speak.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104502.jpg

First the top comes off. A few tiny bolts to undo

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104503.jpg

Next you take out the cassette mechanism, again a few tiny bolts to undo.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104504.jpg

Then the front needs to be undone. The bolts are getting tinnier and tinnier.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104505.jpg

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104506.jpg

When you start on a job likes this you need small screwdrivers!

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104515.jpg

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104516.jpg

Here you can clearly see the flat cable. And you might begin to understand why this cable wears out. As the front display rotates this flat cable unrolls from a tiny spring loaded bar.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104507.jpg

I carefully counted the number of revolutions the spring loaded bar had been given as a pretension on the cable. I have to put everything back in reverse order.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104508.jpg

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104509.jpg

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104510.jpg

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104511.jpg

So finally I have the display off as well, with the flat cable still attached. Pried it open (tiny screw driver) and this is what it looks like:

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104512.jpg


I removed the flat cable. It had a number on it. So I just googled Kenwood J84-0093-03 and a whole bunch of web sites came up!

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104513.jpg

I found several Dutch websites that stocked this cable at even less cost. So I have ordered a new one.

These sort of little jobs are best done, sitting down comfortably, with good light and all your little tools handy. I have the perfect worktop for that at the entrance of my garage! Notice the scope, my trophy from our UK tour the week before!!

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9104517.jpg

Last edited by Jeroen : 11th September 2018 at 13:42.
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Old 11th September 2018, 14:54   #146
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My Car Hobby: A lot of fiddling, and some driving too! Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W...

I thought this might be of some interest. How do I dispose of the old dirty oil. I had some canisters with old brake fluid and the old lub oil and an oily filter from my son’s Golf.

So I always pour all the old oil back into the original containers/bottles. I also keep a large collection of plastic containers and glass jars for this purpose.

Load them up in the car and set off for the city tip, or gemeente werf as we call it.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-imageuploadedbyteambhp1536657833.275840.jpg

We have to separate all our trash, general, plastics, glass, garden waste. So we have four huge containers and they get emptied on a regular basis, on average every other week a huge garbage truck comes by and picks them up and empties them. (Fully automated one man operated Garbage Truck. I’ll try to take a video some time, pretty cool).

But there is all sorts of other waste and garbage that is not collected and you have to take it yourself to the tip. Think for instance building rubble, huge amounts of garden waste, old metal stuff, e.g. a bed frame etc. And all sorts of chemical stuff, from batteries to oil.

So you enter the tip and drive up to the barrier where you enter your postal zone and house number into this thing:

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3514.jpg

The car sits on a weighing platform and you will get weight when you drive out again. The council can invoice you for the weight you leave behind on the tip!

They have a special sorting container for all the chemical waste:

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3516.jpg

There are about 15 different containers were you could dump different kind of materials:

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3517.jpg

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3519.jpg

The council will even rent you a little trailer if you have a lot of waste:

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3518.jpg

All very environmental friendly. We are lucky as this tip is only 10 minutes drive from our home. At present they don’t charge us yet, I think. In our previous village every house hold was given a special ID card. Same system, you would swipe your id card, the car would be weighed, the barrier opens, you drive on and dump all your stuff. You drive out on a scale again (different one going in and going out), swipe you car and they would charge you automatically for every kilogram you had left behind!

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 11th September 2018 at 15:10.
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Old 12th September 2018, 19:17   #147
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Re: My Car Hobby: A lot of fiddling, and some driving too! Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123 & Alfa Romeo Sp

My new flat cable for the radio just arrived. So I thought I would check if it is correct. Remember my procedure for always comparing any new part with the old part, just to check physical size dimension etc.

Here the old and the new. No award for guessing which one is the old flat cable. (hint: the one that isn’t so “flat” anymore.)

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3526.jpg

Initially they looked very similar. That is until I started comparing the ends. This is the important bit, because these stick into connectors on the respective PCB of the radio.

Immediately it was apparent the new cable has a wider end, almost 1-2 mm. Counting the wires on the flat cable the new one has a few more as well.

The original Kenwood number is J84-0093-03 and the new one shows the number J84-0089-13

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3528.jpg

Back to the drawing board as they say!

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 12th September 2018 at 19:18.
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Old 20th September 2018, 11:08   #148
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Re: My Car Hobby: A lot of fiddling, and some driving too! Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123 & Alfa Romeo Sp

Really a vast pool of information Sir. This is one thread which I regularly check for updates.

Lot of life lessons to learn as well and adapt from your experiences. What I like more is the ground work which you do before attempting any DIY and the disciplined approach.

Keep sharing, keep motivating.
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Old 26th September 2018, 15:36   #149
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Re: My Car Hobby: A lot of fiddling, and some driving too! Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123 & Alfa Romeo Sp

Last Sunday I decided to visit a Jaguar event in Germany. That sounds further then it actually is. From our home in the Netherlands, just an hours drive. Motorway all the way!

Earlier, when visiting the Classic Grand Prix at the Nurnburg circuit I had some problems with the Jaguar. It went into failsafe mode. At the time I did have a simple OBD code reader with me. I could clear the codes, but I could not read them. Once cleared, the codes are erased from the memory of the ECU. No way to diagnose the problem, let alone fix it.

This time, in order to capture the codes, if and when a problem arose, I decided to bring my fancy Autel OBD analyser along for the ride.

Had it hooked up to the OBD port, ready to go!

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3625.jpg

Sure enough, about 20 minutes into my drive, a whole bunch of messages on the dashboard display, including the dreaded failsafe mode.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3615.jpg

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3616.jpg

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3617.jpg

On more modern cars, you might still be able to drive if your car goes into failsafe mode. On this Jaguar the RPM gets limited to 1200 and that won’t get you anywhere. So I coasted to the slip road and ran a full diagnostics. Sure enough two codes!

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3619.jpg

The P1000 is actually not an error code. It means the ECU has gone through a full calibration and check cycle and all is well. Alternatively it will show P1111 which means it is still in the calibration /check cycle. This will happen if you disconnect the battery for instance. Can take well up to 50-60 km before a complete cycle is completed.

However the P1121 is a real error code. It is actually quite famous if not to say infamous amongst DIY Jaguar owners. This code pops up and an official Jaguar dealer is likely to want to replace your throttle body. That will cost Euro 2500-3000!!.

It is really ridiculous as it is only the potentiometer that would need replacing, but they don’t sell you the potentiometer separately. Only the complete throttle body assembly!

Whereas, in most cases it is more likely to be a problem with the wiring, earthing, and or connectors. My Jaguar whilst still in Kansas City threw this code and I managed to persuade Jaguar to replace my throttle body for free.

Since, my car has done about 60.00 miles and that seems a little low to have another problem with the potentiometer.

Here some images of the old throttle body:

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234550.jpg

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234551.jpg

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234552.jpg


So my money is on the problem being something different!. Re-setted the codes and drove on. It happened once more. I seem to recall, both cases happened when I took the car out of cruise control by pushing the brake. There is also a known problem with the brake switch that can cause the engine to go into fail safe. I know, because I have had that problem very early on when I bought the car in the USA. However, a wonky brake switch throws its own specific code. It did on mine and I replace the brake micro switches.

Anyway, made it to the venue and left again within 45 minutes because the weather was absolutely atrocious. It kept pouring, we were parked on a field and it was getting very muddy and soggy. So I decided to leave early and work on my cars at home instead!Nice way to spend a rainy Sunday afternoon.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3620.jpg

These days when you want to work on an engine on a modern car, you usually have to remove a lot of plastic bits to get to the actual engine. The Jaguar is no different!

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234544.jpg

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234546.jpg

The plastic bits are very easy to remove. Started by undoing the three connectors on the throttle body. The contacts look clean and appear to be in order. Sprayed them all with electrical cleaner. Also, I noticed on one connector a little retaining clip had broken. In all honesty, I can not say it was broken before I took the connector off or whether I broke it. But it could be the problem as the connector needs to fit properly of course.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234547.jpg

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234549.jpg

There is a lot of information on the Internet on this particular code. Also, the various manuals I own, have quite a bit of information and hopefully some more suggestion what to check. So I need to do a bit more research.

It was one of those days where all the electronics in the family decided to go wonky. When I got home my wife was complaining about the tumble dryer throwing a “clean filter” alarm, whereas the filter was clean!

So I dived into the dryer too!

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-img_3624.jpg

I have also managed to pick up the speed sensor for my Son’s VW Golf GTI. Hopefully this will sort his speedo problems.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234543.jpg

More to come on the Jag! But I actually spend most of that rainy afternoon working on my Mercedes putting the steering box back in.

Jeroen
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Old 27th September 2018, 15:08   #150
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Re: My Car Hobby: A lot of fiddling, and some driving too! Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123 & Alfa Romeo Sp

So I got my steering box back. They told me they could not find anything wrong with it. But they have adjusted it correctly again. I am not convinced, but I have no other option than to bolt it back onto the car and see what it does.

It is a fairly straight forward job. The one part that is a bit tricky is getting the steering box in postion on the inside of engine compartment and sticking the three bolts in that holds it in place. You really need four hands.

I have developed a technique. I wrap some thin rope around the steering box, so I have a handle. Then I position it on the ground underneath the car. I then reach over into the engine compartment and lift up the steering box and pull it into position. A visiting friend was roped in to get his hands (a bit) dirty and slot the three bolts in.

Mercedes instruction stipulates that these bolts should be replaced and not used again. Problem is; Mercedes has ran out of stock, so you can’t get new ones anymore. I tried everywhere but I could not find new ones, so the old ones went back in.

Whenever I am working on steering components I always try to follow the procedures. Also, using the correct torques on the various bolts is really important.

A few pages from my American W123 maintenance for dummies:

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234519.jpg

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234520.jpg

Here you see the three mounting bolts fitted and tightened to correct specs! (albeit the old ones, as I can not get new ones)

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234521.jpg

Here you see the steering box from underneath. You can see the pitman arm. You will notice a little bolt left of the pitman arm.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234523.jpg

The pitman arm had not been removed, so the only concern is to ensure that the pitman arm is in the dead straight position when connecting the steering box back to the steering column. In order to do so, the German engineering boffins have come up with a clever procedure and hugely expensive tool. You undo that little bolt and this little tool gets inserted. For sheer size/volume/weight this must be the most expensive piece of kit I have ever purchased. I paid Mercedes some ridiculous money for it.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234522.jpg

When you insert the little tool you need to rotate the input shaft of the steering box so the needle of this tool slots in as far as can be. Here you see it inserted.
That ensures the steering box is fixed in the dead ahead position.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234524.jpg

Next you position the steering wheel in the straight ahead position as well

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234526.jpg

Then you slide the sleeve from the steering column back onto the input shaft of the steering box

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234525.jpg

As you will notice the input shaft has very fine teeth/grooves. So you really need to get it right or the steering wheel might no align properly and you will need to redo this part.

Getting the sleeves to slide all the way on the input shaft is always a bit of fiddle. the steering column and the input shaft do not align a hundred percent, they are slightly out of alignment. That is why this sleeve has a flexible coupling. In order to get it to slide all the way on I had to use a very large screw driver to open it up a bit.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234528.jpg

With this done, I removed the little tool and refitted the bolt. Had to pry off the copper ring and it was damaged, so out comes the box with new O-rings. You can never ever have enough of these sort of consumables.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234531.jpg

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234530.jpg

Next is the re-attachements of the tie rod and the drag link back onto the pitman arm. I always do the drag link (on the right) first. For no other reason, it has a castle nut sitting on top of the pitman arm and it also has a cotter pin. It is slightly easier to get them in place with the (left) tie rod still disconnected.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234529.jpg

Here you see the drag link, castor nut and cotter pin, all fitted.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234534.jpg

When you mount these tie rod/drag link you need to ensure the parts are very clean. The top of the ball joint fits very precisely into the pitman arm. Needs to be very clean. I usually clean them, push them in and give a very gentle tap on them to sort of fix them, before putting the nut on.

And of course, always look up the proper torque and use a proper torque tool when mounting these critical components!

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234533.jpg

I am not sure why, but Mercedes decided that the drag link is fastened with a castle nut/cotter pin and the tie rod is only with a self locking nut. Here the old and new ones as part of my usual compare before you fit. The new castle nut was a size larger from a spanner perspective as the old one.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234536.jpg

Next re-attach the two hydraulic connections from the pump to the steering box. Straight forward. I use these special short stumpy spanners and only a normal size for the last tightening. The stumps allow for easier working in small spaces and these hoses are a bit of a tight fit.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234537.jpg

I also replaced the hydraulic oil filter. It sits at the bottom of the filter pot. Here you see old and new, doing my comparing.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234538.jpg

In goes the filter!

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234539.jpg

In goes fresh new Hydraulic oil. Again Mercedes could not provide me with the correct oil, but luckily plenty of alternatives around.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234540.jpg

Close the filter, start the engine and let it run for a few seconds. Check and replenish some more hydraulic oil as the pump has now pushed a certain quantity into the steering box.

My Car Hobby: Jaguar XJR, Mercedes W123, Alfa Romeo Spider, Jeep Cherokee & Mini One-p9234542.jpg

You can see the level has come down. Also, the oil looks pretty frothy. In order to purge the system from any air you need to rotate the steering wheel several times from full lock left to full lock right and back again. It is important you keep the front wheels of the ground in order to have little resistance. If you don’t the pump might actually just work as a mixer and really boil up the hydraulic oil. Which is a huge pain and all you can do is wait a day or so until it all settles back.

When you work on hydraulic system in cold ambient temperatures you might want to consider warming up the oil before putting it into the system. Lessens the chance of any problems whilst purging.


My mercedes has been out of actions for quite some time now. First the carburator, then the timing chain and now the steering box. I am looking forward to driving it and seeing if the play in the steering is gone.

First need to put the Jaguar back together. I have stripped the ECU out of the car and opened it up to check for any problems. Stay tuned for further updates

Jeroen
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