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Old 20th August 2021, 12:07   #1
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Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-opening-thoughts-edited.jpg
Opening Thoughts
So whenever you get a new car, the brake system is usually not at its best when its brand new. The discs and pads need a while to bed in and gel into each other for a reliable braking performance. The pedal is also not at its best during this initial warmup period. However, on my car, I found the brake pedal to be quite spongy and soft even after crossing the 1500km mark. This could have well been due to improper brake bleeding from the factory, something which should not have happened but seemed to be the case. This sentiment only accentuated when I drove a few other Polo TSIs and found the pedal a lot firmer and consistent. In fact, even the dealership folks were asking me if I found the brakes spongy. Truth is, they were working fine, but the pedal had a fair amount of softness, but it wasn’t sinking to the floor and there was no immediate reason to worry, so I thought I’d give it a while before considering a brake bleeding job on my car.

Leaving the air in the system aside, I wasn’t too happy with the stock brakes on my Polo and this is something more common for folks with the Automatic gearbox. This is because of how eager the 1.0 TSI + Torque Converter drivetrain is in general. It’s no secret that braking and reduction in engine speed has a lot to do with how the gearing downshifts and this 09G gearbox just keeps delivering power. It likes to rev hard in general, and even while coasting there’s not a lot of engine braking to help in reducing speed. Moreover, I’ve found the stock brakes to exhibit plenty of brake fade after a spirited driving session during the day. So for all of these reasons, I was looking at better brakes for this car.

Making a Choice
Here are a few options and combinations I had seen friends and fellow BHPians resort to in the past :-
  1. Better Brake Pads - I would have had to consider performance brake pads like EBC Yellow Stuff or opt for higher quality stock replacement pads like EBC Ultimax, Brembo, ATE Brake Pads (Made in Czech), but I felt the gains would not be organic with this approach.
  2. Upgrading Discs - Using drilled, slotted rotors from Brembo etc.
  3. Aftermarket Performance Callipers with Dual Pistons etc.
  4. Full OEM Big Brake Kit

It is no secret that the TVS Girling Brake system is fairly commuter at best. The stock brake system by TVS Girling is referred to internally as the C54 calliper system, and although it is quite conventional, it isn’t as well engineered as high-end brake systems made by ATE brakes, which is one of the most reputed brake OEMs in the world. It has innate problems which only multiply in our driving conditions. Further, Volkswagen doesn’t grease the slider pin until it’s time for a carrier replacement, which is accompanied with a fresh satchel of silicone grease. To be honest, the Indian brake system can fare a lot better with some love and care, and regular greasing and cleaning of hardware like Caliper Slider pins, Brake shims etc. The Indian OE TVS Girling pads have lasted some drivers and inspirational BHPians like Gannu quite a lot, but they don’t offer users a supreme performance and reliability for most other dusty, Indian driving conditions. There are quite a lot of hardware related brake complaints, which simply cannot be improved by upgrading to better pads or discs. Moreover, quite a few performance pads have a reputation for eating into rotors (which users might argue as fairly cheap by Volkswagen standards). A quick side view shot I clicked against a nicely vandalised wall near a neighbouring badminton court. Notice the silver shine of the stock braking system.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-prebbk-side-view.jpg

I wanted a cohesive solution and opted to go for an OEM Big Brake Kit. This brake kit uses a common VW Group calliper made by ATE braking (1K0 615 123 and 1K0 615 124) and uses dry slider pins. This same calliper is found on the Jetta, Laura and few other cars from the VAG stable. The part number suffix at the end determines the paint code. If you look at the two calliper assemblies side by side, you’ll instantly notice how much more sophisticated this newer brake calliper is. The piston and seals too are quite a few notches above in quality compared to the TVS Girling Brake system. The insides of the TVS Girling Brake calliper piston in my 4k KM driven car were fairly rusted already.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-holding-bbk-upside.png

The same piston in the ATE brake system seems to be properly coated with a textured material, which should be fairly resilient to rusting.

I found a set which had callipers and carriers that I needed and ordered it along with my friend Sarfraz. The kit I received had quite a lot of paint damage in transit, but the reason I got put-off was because I was sent an incorrect calliper. So the carriers on this brake system are same for both the sides, which is the case in many calliper carrier brake systems, but the left and right callipers are not alike. They are directional for a purpose. If you do end up installing them on the wrong side, expect a huge braking issue concerning the pedal feel due to air in the system. So long story short, the bleeder screw on the calliper should be pointed upwards. That is the correct orientation for installing this brake system. If you accidentally install a wrong calliper on the right side, then you’ll never be able to reliably purge all of the air out of the brake lines during bleeding. Many folks internationally have made similar mistakes on their brake systems and have changed entire brake systems to fix their pedal softness, ineffective braking problems and the fault was finally diagnosed to be a calliper with an incorrect fitment.

So after this instance, I began parts hunting to assemble the right 288mm Big Brake kit. The Brake Kit I have is essentially a Red Caliper Carrier which pairs to a larger disc. You can opt for either a 288mm or a 310mm Disc which featured on the GTI, but both have their share of pros and cons with respect to this PQ25 6R platform. To begin with, it should be noted that a Big Brake Kit adds mass at the front end since each brake disc, calliper and carrier are heavier than the stock brake component. The 310mm disc is also heavier than the 288mm counterpart. For cars with ESP, the coding also takes into account the brake sizes on the front and rear axle, and we’ll speak about it in a bit. If you buy a full kit all together, it turns out to be much cheaper, since you don't have to bother buying bits and bobs, but here is a list of all parts needed if you’re handpicking everything.

OE Numbers of Parts :-
  • Brake Discs :- 6R0 615 301 A/D - 288x25, 5/100 - Zinc Coated
  • Brake Pads :- 5K0 698 151 A
  • Brake Calipers :- 1K0 615 123 and 1K0 615 124 (Made by ATE)
  • Polo Vento Brake Calliper Carrier for 288mm :- 6R0 615 125
  • Brake Calliper Slider Pins :- 251 615 219
  • Brake Calliper Retainer Spring : 1K0 615 269
  • Guide Sleeve Kit :- 8V0 698 647
  • Self-Locking Calliper Carrier Bolts :- N 90708504

Other Optional/Miscellaneous Parts
  • Dust Shields :- 6R0 615 311 A/D, 6R0 615312 A/D
  • Calliper Piston Repair Kit :- 1K0 698 471 B
  • Brake Dust Shield Bolts :- WHT005227
  • Brake Bleeder Dust Cap :- 211611483
  • Rotor Retaining Screw :- N 10648301

Some More Scoop About Parts
I purchased 288mm Zinc Coated brake discs by ATE, but frankly the OE Zinc coated Discs are a really good choice too. 6R0 615 301A is fairly well-priced and can be found under 6k a pair while the newer revised part 6R0 615 301D is about 9400 rupees a pair, since it is a newer offering and a supersession from 301A, but both are made in Germany. The ATE Discs I purchased come with two Rotor Retaining Torx bits, which have a really premium shiny finish to them. Brake Pads for the MK6 Jetta are a straight fit for this calliper carrier but they come with a Brake Wear Sensor which the Polo presently is not equipped with, but obviously something premium which is in the works soon. I don’t think I classify as a heavy braking guy, but I wanted to try ATE Ceramic Pads which ATE recommends to be used with its stock replacement rotors. This is what the box of the ATE Ceramic pads looks like and my dogs wanted to pose in the background.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-ate-288mm-ceramic-pads.jpg

The most attractive USP of going with ATE Ceramic Pads is lesser brake dust and I must say, it’s real. I only hope these pads last as long as the usual ATE pads last on this calliper system, since these don’t come cheap, especially if you import them from abroad.

Installation Stories
So I was initially going to install this brake kit at The Mechanix Automotive where I would be working on the car raised on a lift. I thought I’d also have the expertise and experience of Sushant from the Mechanix Automotive and this seemed like a sorted plan. A family friend of mine working at the VW dealership was very keen that I install the brake kit under their supervision at the dealership and so I had quite a few options to choose from. I was really keen on doing this installation myself, but the only weak link according to me was the brake bleeding. I could do this on my own at the Mechanix or at home, but I only had two jack stands and so it would have been really inconvenient to bleed all four wheels at home. So, I packed all of the parts in the boot and was off to the Mechanix Automotive, but midway, I realised I had forgotten Brake Pads and Dust Shields at home. So I took a U-turn and took this as a sign that I was meant to complete this installation at home. BHPian Sarfraz was chiefly instrumental in inspiring me to do this at home, and thanks to his motivation I managed to complete this task, and it turned out great.

Tools Used
  • 11mm Wrench for Brake Bleeder, Brake Line,
  • 12mm Wrench for Older Brake Calliper Slider Pins.
  • 18mm Wrench for Calliper Carrier Bolts
  • T30 Torx Bit for Brake Shield, Brake Rotor Retaining Screw
  • T45 Torx Bit for Brake Calliper Slider pin - An Alley key might also be usable, but I've found that the OEM slider pin likes the T45.
  • Stanley 1/2 Inch Drive Tool Kit
  • Stanley 1/4 Inch Drive Tool Kit
  • Pair of Jack Stands
  • Wire Brushes for brushing off rusty surfaces
Chemicals Used
  • PetrelPlus Anti-Seize for Bearing
  • WURTH High Temperature Brake Paste
  • WURTH Silicone Grease for priming new slider pins
  • Brake Cleaning Sprays

Getting Started

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-bbk-crime-scene-edited.jpg
So I began by freeing the wheel bolts using the included tool and then securely placed the vehicle on a pair of jack stands. My hydraulic jack was out of order and so I had to raise the car using the included screw wheel jack. Surprisingly, this was an effortless affair and I'm glad the Widow Maker is being eliminated for good.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-taking-wheels-off.png

Another huge advantage of raising and supporting both front wheels at the same time is the ability to turns the steering wheel and subsequently the rotor to allow maximum leverage for taking out the critical calliper carriers bolts. In this picture, I have turned the steering to the left to easily access the passenger side calliper.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-jacking-up-leverage.png

So this is the stock brake system and notice the accumulated surface rust on the rotor. A big reason for the presence of this rust here is the non-application of anti-seize. I have seen quite a few high-end VWs like the Passat and Tiguan, Skoda Superb, Audis to have a generous coat of anti-seize from the factory itself, and true to that, those rotors do not have surface rust at these points. Volkswagen seems to have skimped on this part since the Polo is an entry level offering. Nevertheless, this is only a very minor thing, and here's a before and after only a minute of light brushing with a metal wire brush.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-og-rotor-rust-compared.jpg

Next, using a 12mm wrench or a socket, we undo the two calliper slider pin bolts after which, we can wiggle the stock calliper out. If the calliper isn't free, then use a screw driver for slightly compressing the piston inwards to easily free-up the calliper. Here's a quick at the stock pads which have a clear INSIDE and OUTSIDE marking. Two holes on the pad backing plate are also a distinguishing factor for INSIDE and OUTSIDE pads.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-inside-outside-pads.png

Once the calliper is free, hang it from a bungee cord but since I don't have one, I'll use a tall box to place the calliper on it. The whole idea is to prevent hanging the calliper and avoid straining the rubber brake hose.

My strategy for this installation was to touch the brake line at the very end to try and lose as less brake fluid as possible to avoid running the master cylinder bone dry. So with this idea in mind, I proceeded to install everything else without still undoing the stock brake line from the stock calliper. With the old pads taken out of the way, it's now time to take out the stock calliper carrier which is held by two 18mm self locking bolts. I was expecting these to be really tight and since I don't have immense muscle power, I was mentally ready I'd need to use a long pipe slipped on a 1/2 inch extension. However, with the 1/2 inch Stanley Ratchet, I could free these bolts fairly easily. The factory torque spec for these bolts is 124 Nm.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-opening-carrier.png

Once the carrier is out of the way, we can now proceed to remove the stock 256mm brake disc rotor which is held by a T30 Rotor retaining screw. Using a wheel lug nut is a good tactic to prevent the rotor from falling on your foot or arms. A lug nut is also helpful in the event the brake rotor is tightly rusted onto the hub. We can whack it with a rubber mallet or spray penetrating fluid till it is free and thanks to the safety of the lug nut, the rotor won't fall off.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-holding-rotor.png

After the stock rotor is out of the way, we see the wheel hub, which is again rusted due to our natural elements. Using a combination of WD-40 and brake cleaners followed by some light to moderate brushing, we can successfully brush off this surface rust to reveal a nice and shiny wheel hub.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-hub-rust-before-after.jpg

The 288mm and 310mm brake disc slightly interferes with the new brake dust shields 6R0 615 311 C, which is designed for the 256mm brake disc. So you can either slightly bend the dust shield or replace it to 6R0 615 311 A and 6R0 615 312 A which was initially sold on earlier Polos and Ventos. I believe replacing it to an appropriate sized dust shield is the way to go, since the objective of dust shields is to prevent stray dirt from contaminating the braking surfaces. 6R0 615 311/312 D would have been perfect, but these were never sold or natively available in India and would have been an unnecessary expensive, so the shield 311/312 A works just fine. This brake shield is made in Spain. Here's a side by side view of both the shields but this picture is not a perfect representation of the geometric differences between the two.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-brake-dust-shields.jpg

The dust shield is held on by three T30 screws, two of which are unobstructed while one is slightly recessed behind the wheel hub.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-taking-out-old-dust-shield.png

Taking the dust shield off gave me a chance to have a look at the notorious ABS Sensor which has troubled a lot of Polo Vento owners in India.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-front-abs-sensor.jpg

Here's the new dust shield along with the freshly polished wheel hub, waiting to receive the 288mm brake disc.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-new-dust-shield.jpg

Next, I applied a thin coat of Anti-Seize to the wheel hub to reduce the rate of surface rust formation.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-antiseize-hub.png

Now we're in a position to install the new brake rotor which should be lightly degreased before installation. This is more true in the case of non-zinc coated discs which have an oily protective film to keep them corrosion free in packaging. Zinc coated discs are usually advertised are ready for fitment. However, sometimes manufacturers apply stickers or some packing guides between rotors and they end up sticking or leaving light traces on the braking or non-braking surfaces. Notice the light blue tinge on the rotor face which mounts the alloy wheel. It is a remnant of the blue brake guide which came with the ATE Rotors. Using some more brake cleaner and wiping it off with a light rag or cloth would eliminate it.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-ate-new-disc-fitted.jpg

Here's a closeup of the ATE Zinc coated ventilated brake disc. Notice the insides of the disc.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-zinc-coated-rotor-closeup-view.jpg

Ideally, this good zinc coat should prevent the rotor but accumulating rust in these crevices but after a rainy month with these discs, I've already found quite some surface rust in these fins, which isn't something I was expecting. The disc is held in place with the T30 rotor retaining screw and ATE supplies new brake rotor screws along with new rotors. There is no absolute need to replace this screw unless you ended up stripping it during its removal. The torque spec for the T30 rotor retaining screw is 4.5 Nm. Notice the light coat of anti-seize we applying during cleaning and greasing of the hub.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-ate-rotor-screw.jpg

Before we proceed any further, let's have a quick visual comparison between the old and the new rotor.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-new-vs-old-disc.png

Now that our shiny new rotor is in place, we can reinstall the calliper carrier. I hand threaded the new self-locking calliper carrier bolts to prevent any cross-threading.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-carrier-fitting.png

The calliper carrier bolts are recommended to be replaced when the carrier is removed.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-carrier-bolts.png

I have seen quite a lot of garages reuse these bolts, but I also happen to have heard a few horror stories which stem from reusing of these calliper carrier bolts and so I decided to replace them during this installation. These are to be torqued down to 124 Nm.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-torquing-carrier.png

Last edited by Aditya : 3rd December 2021 at 10:12. Reason: Amazon links
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Old 20th August 2021, 14:28   #2
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Calliper Assembly, 288mm OEM Big Brake Kit

Now let's have a quick look at the brake pads after which we can proceed to final assembly of the calliper. As I mentioned earlier, I have used ATE Ceramic brake pads for this installation. The piston side and outer side pads are different. The piston side has a metal clip and also has an included brake wear sensor. The brake wear sensor on a few other VW cars like the Jetta is on the front left.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-piston-side-pad.png

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-calliper-hand-underview.png

This pad has to be clamped into the piston and needs quite some force. Make sure you have a pair of clean grease free hands while touching the brake pad material. I tried to not touch the surface, but its tough forcing the pad onto the piston by just pushing the ends.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-fitting-pistonside-pads.jpg

Next, let's have a look at this dry slider pin. The VW pricing of each is about 2400 rupees and you need a total of 4 such slider pins if you're assembling a new calliper. This slider pin sits in the rubber sleeve on the calliper and has to be tightened with the T45 bit. The torque spec for the slider pin is 30 Nm.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-calliper-slider-pins.png

I've had this debate with quite a few friends but I've seen that the OEM slider pin is a T45 and the inner tool slip with a T45 is lesser than an equivalent Hex Allen key. However, both tools can reliably release and tighten the slider pin. The beauty of this slider pin is that it only gets marginally dirty after a while and needs no special lubrication. In fact, only a small thin layer of silicone lubricant is all that is needed. Use an incorrect grease, and you'll swell the rubber guide-sleeve.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-t45-calliper-slider.png

Once the slider pins are tightened to spec, we close the guide sleeve with the dust cap, which again, surprisingly is not a part of a brand new calliper assembly. The dust cap is not sold separately, and so its mandatory to buy the entire guide sleeve repair kit.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-calliper-slider-dust-cap.png

When the entire calliper has been put together, we need to clip on the calliper retaining spring clip which is really tight if its new. I had quite a tough time with this spring and had to use considerably force and a diversity of tools to get this on in the correct way. It's quite easy to put this on incorrectly, so beware.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-calliper-retainer-spring.png

Greasing

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-wurth-satchet.png

There are some metal on metal contact surfaces on this calliper system which would be happy after the application of some high temperature brake paste. These areas are the brake pad ears, the carrier contact point, brake pad backing plate which makes contact with the carrier. While applying this brake paste, make sure to avoid getting it on any friction material like the brake pad braking face or the brake disc.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-wurth-brake-paste.png

If you get any anti-seize or brake paste on these friction surfaces, do use brake cleaner to clean it off. These small touches of applying brake paste go a long way and I had first seen this practices in a LiquiMoly Brake service video. These pastes are also instrumental in reducing brake squeaking over time. I happened to find these documented on quite a few European forums where owners have maintained their brake systems for a few hundred thousand kilometers. The idea is to apply just a little, in the right places.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-calliper-carrier-contact-greasing.png

In this picture, I got a little too much on the calliper carrier sliding point, so I wiped it after taking a picture. This is a picture of how the calliper looks after the brake pads are assembled.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-calliper-assembly-complete.jpg
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Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-wurth-brake-paste.jpg  


Last edited by fluidicjoy : 21st August 2021 at 00:00.
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Old 20th August 2021, 21:41   #3
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Brake Bleeding, ABS Coding

Calliper Pre-bleeding, Bleeding
Now when you install a brand new calliper, we need to transfer the old brake line from the old calliper to the new brake calliper. While releasing the stock brake line, there is an immediate leak in the brake system, which leads to entry of air in the brake circuit. Air needs to be urgently purged out of the hydraulic brake system for a reliable braking performance. Since air is compressible, hydraulic force is not transmitted in the line and the brake system is compromised, and the pedal is instantly spongy.

I did not disconnect the brake line from the stock calliper in the very beginning but saved this task for the last to try and lose as less fluid as possible. Brake fluid is highly corrosive and eats into paint and is harmful if exposed to skin for prolonged periods of time. It's a great practice to wear gloves while working with brake fluid.

The brake line on the front calliper is held by an 11mm bolt which mates the brake line bolt to the calliper with the help of two washers. On most other cars I've worked on, these are copper crush washers, which are sold as a spare part. For the Volkswagen Polo and Vento, the brake line washers are sadly not available as a spare part on the VW part catalogue and if you damage this washer and cause a leak, you'd need a new brake line.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-11mm-stock-brake-line-bolt.png

To protect my shiny red callipers, I placed a plastic cover on the stock calliper while I was disconnecting the stock brake line.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-covering-painted-calliper.png

Using a gloved hand, I quickly transferred the brake line to the new calliper and hand tightened the brake line bolt till it was snug. The torque spec for the brake line bolt is 35 Nm. I lost only about 50-60ml of brake fluid in this quick transition. Now our new calliper has been connected to the stock brake line. I went to the brake fluid reservoir and topped it up with VW brake fluid. VW's brake fluid standard VW 501 14 is one of the best in the OEM community and its low-viscosity is suitable for most ABS-ESP systems. Now, it's time to let gravity fill the new calliper with brake fluid and so using an 11mm wrench, we undo the calliper bleeder screw.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-11mm-brake-bleeder-screw.png

The very first time takes time and is only a trickle, but it's still a good idea to connect a clear brake line and zip-tie it tight to reduce the likelihood of slipping or air entry into the calliper. This is what a simple home bleeder looks like and I've seen this being used time and again on the inspirational YouTube channel ChrisFix.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-bbk-brake-bleeding-home.png

Once the calliper starts dripping continuously with brake fluid, it means that the calliper is now full of brake fluid and now it's time to bleed air out of the brake line. Go back to the Brake Fluid Reservoir, top it up, slightly above maximum and dip the free end of the tubing in clear and clean brake fluid and slightly crack the bleeder screw open to let the air bubbles out of the brake line. If you dip the clear hose into fluid, it won't pull back air into the brake line. This is the simplest way to bleed your brake system, but it isn't the fastest, nor is the most effective. However, if done right, and if you have the assistance of a friend, you can actually purge quite some air out of the brake system using this simple and age-old method. Notice the air bubble travelling out of the calliper in the still below. I had to perform a similar operation on the other side, put everything back together and pumped the brake pedal a few times to get the new brake system to set in.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-bubble-line.png

First Drive After BBK
So I pumped the brake pedal and headed out and tried to gently press the brakes and the car was already shedding quite a lot of speed, but there was a horrific loud screeching noise that was coming when I pressed the brake pedal. It was partially alarming, but I knew this was only the consequence of the new zinc coated discs and the new ceramic brake pads grinding into one another. I decided to make a few firm stops and the noise vanished and the brakes felt great after merely 10kms. This was my 5th brake job, but this was the first time when my brakes gave me an assuring bite within 15kms of driving. This was a victory indeed. The brakes kept getting better and better and the first thing I noticed is how cleanly the brakes help shed speed now. I kept driving and around the 300km mark, I found the brakes to have found the right bite I was looking for.

Brake Bleeding Experience at the Dealership

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-bbk-rear-view-dealership.jpg

I was happy with the bite from the new brake system, but still found the brake pedal to be quite soft. Every alternate brake bite was really nice and strong, while the other alternating strokes were quite soft and uninspiring. So I was convinced that it would be necessary to properly bleed the entire brake system and so I decided to pay the dealership a visit specifically for a pressure bleed. I wanted to see how they do things so here's exactly how it went down. The dealership had a Pressure Bleeding device which was filled with fresh Volkswagen spec brake fluid. The device was preconfigured with a set pressure and was connected to the brake fluid reservoir.

Now the only thing I was curious about was the Brake Bleed sequence and whether or not they'd bleed the ABS module using ODIS. Some manufacturers recommend bleeding from the point farthest from the Master Cylinder, which happens to be at the Driver side but the dealer technician started bleeding from the wheel cylinder farthest from the ABS-Pump. So Driver Side Rear (Rear Right), Rear Left, Front Right, Front Left. In fact, he wasn't even bleeding the line for air, but was entirely replacing what was already crystal clear fresh brake fluid from a nearly 1 year old car. As per his experience, the brake bleeder had a fairly high success rate, but I guess, I'd have drained less fluid and tried to purge more air out, since changing the fluid was not an agenda for my car.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-bbk-dealership-bonnet-open.jpg

Nevertheless, I trusted him to do his task, and once everything was put back-together, the brake pedal is a lot firmer, and the brakes apply a lot more assuringly. If the softness of my stock pedal is a 3/10 and a proper stock Polo is a 5/10, then the pressure bleeding of the brake system has taken this pedal to an 8.5/10, which is fairly incredible. Now when I drive any other Polo or Vento, I always find it too soft for my liking, since the benchmark has pretty much been set. I was charged 300 rupees for this brake fluid work, but I'm sure they changed nearly a litre of brake fluid in my car, which is fairly reasonable service pricing.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-bbk-antiseize.jpg

Here's a quick snap of the big brake kit after a rainy drive and notice the anti-seize layer on the rotor face which I had applied during installation. There was no rust on the rotor face since I had applied anti-seize while the rear drums had a fair amount of corrosion on them due to non-application of anti-seize. I'll make it a point to grease the rear drum face when I take out the rear wheels the next time.

Modern cars have quite a lot of advanced brake electronics like ABS-ESP systems, which have distinct brake circuits for enhanced braking and safety. So it is quite important to respect the service manual of each vehicle to pay heed to brake bleeding procedures as prescribed by the manufacturer. I'll leave links to this calliper and brake system repair manual on the thread if you wish to follow the entire process methodology. There are quite a few different technical procedures Volkswagen has prescribed which they call as Pre-Bleeding of the Hydraulics which involves bleeding the front end and rear end together along with a Basic Setting bleed of the ABS-Pump and Subsequent Bleeding which prescribes the assistance of a secondary mechanic.

What is slightly strange is that the bleeding sequence of these operations is different. Some procedures follow the conventional wisdom of bleeding farthest from the Master Cylinder, while some follow a cyclic order Rear Left, Front Left, Front Right, Rear Right. Honestly, the dealer itself is not following these minute procedures, but if you run an ODIS test plan, these are the ones that actually pop up and need to be done. If I'm still not happy or feel some softness in the pedal, I'll end up performing these ABS bleeds and pre-bleeds, but till then, I'm going to give this a rest and enjoy the new-found tightness and vigour in the brakes.

Braking Performance After My Brake Upgrade
  • Improved, confidence inspiring and responsive pedal feel.
  • Improved high-speed braking and stability.
  • Strong assuring bite from the new brake system.
  • Reduced brake fade due to larger heat dissipation area.
  • Lesser brake dust.
  • Slight nose-dive due to a stronger front-end bite on the stock struts.

Advantages of an OEM Big Brake Kit
  • Perfect bolt-on installation.
  • Lesser head-ache to service and fuss-free maintenance.
  • Longer life of brake pads and discs.

ABS ESP Coding, Before After
The stock coding on the ESP block accounts for a 256mm Disc at the front and a drum brake on the rear axle. ESP Coding is fairly interesting and quite a lot of bits are dependent on your VIN, which in turn takes into account the manufacturing dates, sequences, installation list etc. The latest ABS-ESP 9.0 module made by BOSCH can be coded to accept a front 288mm disc with a rear drum, and this is in theory needed for the ESP to understand the change in the brake bias.

Before the ABS-ESP Coding, I had driven for almost 550kms, so I had a fair idea about how the car was braking after a generously patient bedding in process. What we observed on our test drives is that the rear end was slipping, and was getting locked up prematurely and wasn’t stopping in a straight line like we expect from an ESP vehicle. After the coding, the rear end began to comply in line and ABS wasn’t aggressively kicking in, as compared to our prior test. There was no special difference in the brake pedal feel after the coding, and if someone tells you otherwise, its probably a placebo. I plan to make a before and after video comparison on an empty stretch of road to test this out again, but I need to sort the alignment out before I get to do that.

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-img_1024squashed.jpg

That's pretty much it for this brake upgrade update post!

Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo-5072-rains.jpg

Installation Video

Last edited by fluidicjoy : 21st August 2021 at 00:14.
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Old 21st August 2021, 06:57   #4
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Re: Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the DIY section. Thanks for sharing!

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Old 21st August 2021, 08:58   #5
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Re: Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo

Another comprehensive post enabling any layman to do this as a DIY! Great stuff!
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Old 21st August 2021, 10:12   #6
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Re: Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo

great DIY, fluidicjoy. Your attention to detail is excellent.

If I may, I wanted to ask a simple question - with your OEM brakes, the feel was spongy and with the BBK installed the feel is more 'taut'.
However, I hope you are aware that you are not 'utilizing' the BBK to it's full use unless you have more grippy soft compound tyres.

When you increase surface area and enhance the friction material(s) - now you need less pressure from the fluid to apply the same braking force as stock (force = pressure x area). So naturally, you foot travel is far lesser, and the brakes "feel" stronger. But are they really applying any more force than stock brakes ? Well, if you slam the B pedal, because the friction force between pad and disc is going to be higher than the friction force between rubber and road, ABS will kick in earlier than when it was stock, and do it's thing.

Effectively, unless you upgrade your tyres to much more grippier ones, the BBK is not getting utilized for it's 'more braking force' , but only getting utilized for it's - (i) enhanced pedal feel, (ii) better ability to resist fade for longer durations of aggressive braking.

Also, hoping that the change in size only in front, hasn't gone beyond a limit where the ABS computer cannot adjust the proportioning valves to 'learn and accommodate' the change in hardware and preserve the original brake bias.

Last edited by venkyhere : 21st August 2021 at 10:19.
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Old 21st August 2021, 11:28   #7
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Re: Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo

Quote:
Originally Posted by venkyhere View Post
great DIY, fluidicjoy. Your attention to detail is excellent.

If I may, I wanted to ask a simple question - with your OEM brakes, the feel was spongy and with the BBK installed the feel is more 'taut'.
However, I hope you are aware that you are not 'utilizing' the BBK to it's full use unless you have more grippy soft compound tyres.

Effectively, unless you upgrade your tyres to much more grippier ones, the BBK is not getting utilized for it's 'more braking force' , but only getting utilized for it's - (i) enhanced pedal feel, (ii) better ability to resist fade for longer durations of aggressive braking.

Also, hoping that the change in size only in front, hasn't gone beyond a limit where the ABS computer cannot adjust the proportioning valves to 'learn and accommodate' the change in hardware and preserve the original brake bias.
Hi! Yes you're absolutely correct. The rubber plays an even important role since it's part of the actual interface which helps the wheel shed speed on the road and I'm losing out on quite a lot of the real upgrade potential unlocked because of the big brake kit. I should have swapped the tyres out when the car was new, but I thought the stock Goodyears would be just fine, but I was proven wrong after a few weeks of ownership. They are commuter grade at best and I've felt they just don't do justice to the sporty nature of this car, and while the dry grip feels fine, the wet grip leaves a lot to be desired. However, the stock tyres have next to no acceptable resale value now and so I think I'll live with these for a while, before I opt for softer and grippier recommended tyres to give a rest to the wallet.

The ABS-ESP 9.0 module coding takes into account the body type, whether its a hatch or a sedan, the transmission type, LHD or RHD, engine code specific bits etc. and the brake specific bytes are as follows :-
  • Front 256mm disk and rear 200mm drum
  • Front 256mm disk and rear 232mm disk
  • Front 288mm disk and rear 200mm drum
  • Front 288mm disk and rear 232mm disk
  • Front 310mm disk and rear 232mm disk
  • Front 310mm disk and rear 254mm disk

As per many reviews and experiences I read online, the latest HW SW version of this ABS-ESP module supports all of the following brake codings. As you can tell, Front 288mm and Rear Drum is a supported combination and frankly, the braking bias hasn't been disturbed at all. This is a reason I did not consider the 310mm Brake Kit, since I do not plan on installing the Rear Disk kit, which I've driven and it's really good to have, but not a proper bolt-on upgrade considering the Rear Axle of the presently sold Polo.

In fact, I like the feel of the brake system a lot better than the stock brakes now. Even slamming the Brake Pedal does not trigger the ABS prematurely. It stops just like it should. This is probably thanks to the ABS-ESP coding.

Also, the OEM pedal on my specific car was spongy, but this is not a case with the Polo in general. Every other new 1.0L TSI I've driven had a nice and tight brake pedal. This made me suspect that my car had air in the system, which also got released thanks to the brake bleeding and fluid change. I waited so I could kill two birds with one stone. A few days back, fellow BHPian n4rayan.jagdish and Polo 2019 GT TSI 1.2L DSG owner drove my car and remarked that I have a very tight brake pedal. That brought a smile on my face, because the difference is real.

Last edited by fluidicjoy : 21st August 2021 at 11:30.
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Old 21st August 2021, 13:30   #8
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Re: Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluidicjoy View Post

The ABS-ESP 9.0 module coding takes into account the body type, whether its a hatch or a sedan, the transmission type, LHD or RHD, engine code specific bits etc. and the brake specific bytes are as follows :-
  • Front 256mm disk and rear 200mm drum
  • Front 256mm disk and rear 232mm disk
  • Front 288mm disk and rear 200mm drum
  • Front 288mm disk and rear 232mm disk
  • Front 310mm disk and rear 232mm disk
  • Front 310mm disk and rear 254mm disk
This is the beauty of VAG modular platforms and their electronics/firmware architecture - there is already a lookup table and you just have to code the selection from the stock one to an 'upgraded' one from the same table. Very neat and clean.
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Old 21st August 2021, 15:28   #9
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Re: Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo

First of all, a heartily congratulations to you for executing the BBK diy at home and with god level of attention to details, I'm sure service centre people would not have cared so much about anti rust application and miscellaneous.

I have four questions for you-
  1. what was the total cost of the project
  2. Will it affect warranty
  3. Can it be executed on Skoda Rapid DSG 2019 with the same part numbers
  4. When can I give you a visit, I would be more than happy to drive all the way to Pune to get it done from you

Cheers!
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Old 21st August 2021, 19:41   #10
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Re: Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo

Amazing work Fluidicjoy! The Bigger brakes will definitely last much longer. For the brake pad sensor alerts, you can try using VCDS and activate it and I believe it will work once you enable it in the IPC in VCDS.
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Old 21st August 2021, 20:00   #11
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Re: Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluidicjoy View Post

In fact, I like the feel of the brake system a lot better than the stock brakes now. Even slamming the Brake Pedal does not trigger the ABS prematurely. It stops just like it should. This is probably thanks to the ABS-ESP coding.
Lovely upgrade, and the fact that you did it yourself must feel a lot more satisfying.

I don't know if you can get steel braided lines for the Polo, but if you do I recommend putting them in. I have them in my Swift, and the feel when you push down is a lot more engaging (firmer, more bite, more progressive) at slow speeds. I haven't really slammed on the brakes to check the the response at high speeds, so that's an unknown.
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Old 22nd August 2021, 01:51   #12
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Re: Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo

Another quality diy upgrade! Your car is quickly becoming one of the most desirable polos in India. I just have one question regarding the brakes. What are the pros and cons in going aftermarket? Getting brembo/tarox brakes instead of the OEM BBK?
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Old 22nd August 2021, 06:52   #13
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Re: Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo

really great job fluidicjoy.

Few noob questions.
  • From where did you get the OEM part number info, ESC info.
  • How much time was spent on researching and planning, before ordering the parts.
  • How to zero in on the supplier of the parts.
  • And how much was the total cost of the upgrade.
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Old 22nd August 2021, 23:27   #14
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Re: Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo

Wow!
Incredible details. And meticulousness. As a Polo GT TSI DSG owner I always found the brakes inadequate. This will help many Polo owners.
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Old 29th August 2021, 21:31   #15
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Re: Installing an OEM 288mm Big Brake Kit | VW Polo

Quote:
Originally Posted by sachin_cs View Post
[*]what was the total cost of the project[*]Will it affect warranty[*]Can it be executed on Skoda Rapid DSG 2019 with the same part numbers
I completed the project at around Rs. 65000, but this is not the typical upgrade cost for this brake upgrade. The costs went up because of importing and buying brand new OEM parts like repair kits, guide sleeves, Ceramic brake pads, which were subjected to foreign import duties. Otherwise, brake pads range from 3-5.5k (BREMBO etc.), brake disc pair ranges from 5k to 15k (OE VW, ATE, Brembo) depending on which type of disc (stock, drilled, slotted etc.), new callipers cost 12k each, calliper carriers again range from 9k-15k and other miscellaneous repair items add up to 57-8k. The costs for these are if all parts are brand new and substantial saving can be made if we opt for factory remanufactured callipers or source scrap callipers. Scrap callipers do come with some risks of their own, but most are in fair condition since the brake system itself is robust.

As per my conversation with the dealership, brakes have no warranty after the 6 month mark. So I was not worried about any implication. Moreover, this is an OEM upgrade, offered in Europe. As you saw, everything was bolt-on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jithin23 View Post
Amazing work Fluidicjoy! The Bigger brakes will definitely last much longer. For the brake pad sensor alerts, you can try using VCDS and activate it and I believe it will work once you enable it in the IPC in VCDS.
Yes. I hope they last longer and age gracefully. Yes, it can be activated from VCDS through the Instrument Cluster - Address 17. I will share the coding byte and wiring harness details once I complete it. I just completed BCM Max wiring and adaptation in my car, so I'm looking forward to that at the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
Lovely upgrade, and the fact that you did it yourself must feel a lot more satisfying.

I don't know if you can get steel braided lines for the Polo, but if you do I recommend putting them in. I have them in my Swift, and the feel when you push down is a lot more engaging (firmer, more bite, more progressive) at slow speeds. I haven't really slammed on the brakes to check the the response at high speeds, so that's an unknown.
Yes! Doing it myself was a big plus. It was a lot of fun. I have seen steel lines for the Polo abroad. Glad to hear they greatly improve the pedal feel. I was under the impression that they are mostly useful for track drivers and only offer a slightly better pedal feel. I will definitely try sourcing a kit and put it in after a few years when I need to replace worn out and strained brake lines. Thanks for the feedback!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajiv Krishnan View Post
Another quality diy upgrade! Your car is quickly becoming one of the most desirable polos in India. I just have one question regarding the brakes. What are the pros and cons in going aftermarket? Getting brembo/tarox brakes instead of the OEM BBK?
PROs of going aftermarket is probably a lesser one-time cost as compared to a Big Brake Kit. Brembo and Tarox pads have proven to be an improvement in the stock braking system. I have read that a Bigger area for heat dissipation is a big step for improving braking performance and a simple upgrade on the C54 brake system with better would not help overcome the problems associated with the stock brake system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post
really great job fluidicjoy.

Few noob questions.
  • From where did you get the OEM part number info, ESC info.
  • How much time was spent on researching and planning, before ordering the parts.
  • How to zero in on the supplier of the parts.
  • And how much was the total cost of the upgrade.
I found the OEM part numbers by referencing multiple OEM part catalogues for the Polo and Polo Sedan sold in Europe. I cross-checked with a few other blogs to double-check and then started procuring the parts from parts dealers. It's hard to find bits and bobs since one stop doesn't have all the parts. It's way easier to find an entire big brake kit. You can find one with factory remanufactured callipers at nearly the 50k price mark. If you wish to use any niche components like Ceramic pads, Drilled discs, then the costs go up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rageshgr View Post
Wow!
Incredible details. And meticulousness. As a Polo GT TSI DSG owner I always found the brakes inadequate. This will help many Polo owners.
Yes, I found the brakes on my 1.0 TSI AT inadequate too. Hence I got this done fairly soon in my ownership.
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