[OrthodocX]

The Auto Stop-Start feature is one of the most hated "features" on modern cars, as is eveident from any Google search. In principle it is good, but the implementation seems to be more irritating that helpful. While it may help you save fuel at traffic stops, it is often too aggressive and keeps killing the engine in stop and go traffic. Restarting the engine 20 times in just as many minutes can't be a good thing, right?

Fortunately, the auto stop-start thingy can be disabled manually with the push of a button. Unfortunately this setting isn't kept in memory and resets back to "enabled" state in each ignition cycle. So if you don't like it, you have to remember to press that button EVERY SINGE TIME you start your car. Over the years, this can get frustrating.

There are entire companies in the USA that exist just to solve this problem, using elaborate electronic trickery using man-in-the-middle circuitry or OBD plug-ins to disable this abomination of a feature. That is how much people want to get rid of this feature.

Anyway, I don't want to justify my hatred of the feature. I just wanted it gone! My car, my rules!

I couldn't find an XUV700 specific device sold in India or elsewhere which would disable it. So buying a readymade option was out. Taking the DIY route, I contemplated playing around with the fusebox and pulling the auto stop-start fuse. Gave up because I don't know what other dependencies the said fuse would have. Second thought was to look under the hood and cut power to the micro-hybrid started motor. But again, I decided against messing around with stuff which I could inadvertedly break and cause any safety issue while on the road (I would really like to not die becasue of a DIY project)

Then I came across an Australian review of the Scorpio-N where the ASS button is a toggle on the center fascia instead of on the RHS button bank like the XUV700. The blokes down under were using zip-ties or coins wedged over the button to keep the button depressed and that seemed to disable ASS for good until removed.

This seemed very DIY friendly, as well as reversible - and did not involve any electronic trickery or messing with the internals of the car. So i decided to test it out.

1. Turned on the car. ASS came on.
2. Pushed the ASS button - light turned off - but i did not release the button.
3. Keeping the ASS button pressed in, i turned off the car.
4. Turned on the ignition. Eureka!! the button flickered on for an instant, and went out immediately.
5. Now i released the button and turned off the car.
6. Turned on the ignition. And the ASS light was back to "on" state.
7. Did this multiple times to verify the findings, and they were reproducible every time without fail.

Inference: As long as the ASS button is held down (after turning the feature off), it stays in the "off" state. If ever you want to reactivate this abomination, just remove whatever you use to keep the button pushed in and the feature will be restored as if nothing ever happened.

Execution: I realized I needed something slim but sturdy to wedge between the ASS switch and the RHS button bank fascia. Decided to avoid putting anything on the right side to avoid inadvertently jamming the hill descent control button! I settled on the left of the button as a suitable candidate. As a wedge, plastic seemed the best option (due to its indestructability and low elasticity). I had a few collar stiffeners (from formal men's shirts) begging to be sacrificed - so I heard their call and decided to employ them. After some trial and error, I realized that 3 layers of the stiffener was just right amount of friction to keep the button pressed in without being too tight to deform the button bank. Made sure to leave them sticking out enoug that i could yank them out if needed, but not long enough to be an eyesore or get bumped by my knee/hands.

See photos and video for visual description of this post.

https://youtu.be/DVDuJ0QVO0o

[rroy92]

Thank you Doc from the bottom of my heart. Thanks a ton!!!!

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by OrthodocX

...I had a few collar stiffeners (from formal men's shirts)

Please Patent this idea.

The USA S/w or Chip-tune guys will be looking like this now.



PS - May be some folks at M&M tech division too, there are few here in Tbhp too

[OrthodocX]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

Please Patent this idea.

The USA S/w or Chip-tune guys will be looking like this now.

Attachment 2702324

PS - May be some folks at M&M tech division too, there are few here in Tbhp too

Lol 🤣. I hope Mahindra doesn't push a patch to alter the switch behaviour. So far all good. An entire day of driving with the ASS reliably disabled without any issues

[Jeroen]

Did you check whether this is an actual push on/off button that switches the current off in. A regular circuit? Or does it provide a digital input on the a bus/computer.

In the first instance you should be ok as I suspect the push button has a break contact.

But in the later case I’m not so sure as you would be providing a continuous input to the computer (usually the BCM or similar). Not sure if it was designed for that. Probably no immediate damage as these BCM tend to be designed pretty robust and usually short circuiting an input circuit won’t cause immediate problems.

But rule of thumb is you should use electronic circuits and its components as intended.

Again, on this car it might be a simpler circuit. I would never result to hacks unless I really know what it really does. Each to its own.

Personally I have no problems switching this function off everytime I get in the car. I’m a bit of a nerd, and I like fiddling with switches as part of my start up ritual of my cars.

I will start the engine. Put the lights on or on automatic (I never ever leave a switch on, even though with ignition off it powers down), I will switch on the cruise control, the AC, the radio, extend the electrical aerial and switch off the auto stop function.

Maybe I should make checklist for my cars too?

Jeroen

Jeroen

[amit_purohit20]

I hate the ASS feature to the core. It puts unnecessary load on the battery, it reduces the life of the Starter and the life of the turbo. I do not get a good feeling when engine automatically shuts down when I was just about to move ahead. In automatic car the engine as soon as it starts the car moves ahead which I bet means some additional load on the battery to start rotating the Torque converter.

This is the first thing I am going to try today. I was desperately searching for a solution and you found one. Not only you found one you have shared it with all of us. A big thanks for the same. I will update after trying.

[Col Mehta]

Thank you for sharing. The ASS system is indeed a royal pain in the A$$. Never get a postive feeling seeing the engine toggling between on and off so intrusively, sure it's bad for the engine and other components.

What amazes me more, however, is how some get overly excited over this feature -"oh this will save fuel or save your gearbox" Yeah? Maybe maybe not, but in all likeliness, it's going to damage your engine too!

[abhisheksahas]

Originally Posted by OrthodocX

Lol 🤣. I hope Mahindra doesn't push a patch to alter the switch behaviour. So far all good. An entire day of driving with the ASS reliably disabled without any issues

I don't expect Mahindra to do it. As far as Mahindra is concerned, they do it only to comply with the regulatory agencies and such delicate mods does not impact Mahindra's products capabilities as viewed by the regulatory agencies.

[Rahul Lal]

Thanks a lot for this idea.

I tried this in my Jimny. Used a black nylon cable tie by cutting it to size & pressed it between the ISS switch & switch blank. It is working fine.

[YK85]

Originally Posted by Col Mehta

Thank you for sharing. The ASS system is indeed a royal pain in the A$$. Never get a postive feeling seeing the engine toggling between on and off so intrusively, sure it's bad for the engine and other components.

What amazes me more, however, is how some get overly excited over this feature -"oh this will save fuel or save your gearbox" Yeah? Maybe maybe not, but in all likeliness, it's going to damage your engine too!

This is something important to delve deeper into. I also have this feature on my Scorpio N. It's not very effective and definitely not suitable for stop & go traffic.

But, do we actually know if it harms the engine and/or gearbox? Is there any actual test data around that or we are simply assuming that it will damage the car?

I would really like some clarity on this as would many others.

[Col Mehta]

Originally Posted by YK85

This is something important to delve deeper into. I also have this feature on my Scorpio N. It's not very effective and definitely not suitable for stop & go traffic.

But, do we actually know if it harms the engine and/or gearbox? Is there any actual test data around that or we are simply assuming that it will damage the car?

I would really like some clarity on this as would many others.

It's a relatively new tech and apparently there isn't much data to support either case. During the first service of our Seltos though, the Kia Service Manager did indicate that one should avoid using it as much as possible as it puts unnecessary stress on many components. For us, it was a good enough reason to not use it, obviously the other reason being it's just SUPER annoying.

Certainly it can't be good for the engine, battery, starter motor et al when your car turns on and off multiple times in a matter of seconds, but if you have a supporting data/documentation that supports its usability and no affect on the engine, please share that. Will be great to learn more about it. Until then, I would be happier not using it at all .

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by YK85

But, do we actually know if it harms the engine and/or gearbox? Is there any actual test data around that or we are simply assuming that it will damage the car?
.

No, it does not harm your engine, gearbox, starter, battery or turbo. That’s all a lot of nonsense. These engines, and its components, are specifically designed to handle the continuous start/stopping. And even if they were not, it would be hardly a strain on the battery and starter. Once your engine is at normal operating temperature, it needs just a little push by the starter to start up again.

Gearboxes are not affected at all by starting and stopping. Modern turbo engines have no problems, none, on the turbo and its components due to starting/stopping features. We have a thread on the forum on idling prior shutdown. In most cases that is simply not relevant. If it is not mentioned in the owner manual, don’t worry about it.

I have a friend who has access to all data of a several lease company fleet around Europe. We are talking tens of thousands of car. The number of problems due to starting/stopping or turbo problems is almost neglible. And before people start pointing our lease companies tend to be quite new cars, these days there is a huge market for second hand older lease cars too. So the data includes cars with considerable mileage on the clock.

What is worrying or at least remarkable, members are worried about start/stop features, whereas it is a specifically designed function of the car. But they appear not be worried about a hack to permanently fix a push button that is definitely not approved or even remotely understood by members on its possible long term effects.

The fuel efficiency gains of start/stop are very small indeed. And yes, it can be annoying, so that is why the on/off switch is provided. The reason it always default to the start/stop function being is as far as I know a regulatory thing. Without it, small effect as it has, the car won’t meet its efficiency and emission limits

So we seem to be solving a none existing, imaginary, problem by a completely untested or understood hack.

Jeroen

[Col Mehta]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

So we seem to be solving a none existing, imaginary, problem by a completely untested or understood hack.

Jeroen

Thank you for the insights. Would you happen to have any supporting documentation that talks about all that you mentioned? Not questioning the credibility of your post (I'm a big fan of your contributions ), but just want something more concrete. I'm very much in to learn more about ASS and auto hold's functionalities and how (if at all) they affect the components in general. There is just so much noise on the web about these two functions and it's hard to say which is correct vs just a sham.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Col Mehta

Thank you for the insights. Would you happen to have any supporting documentation that talks about all that you mentioned? Not questioning the credibility of your post (I'm a big fan of your contributions ), but just want something more concrete. I'm very much in to learn more about ASS and auto hold's functionalities and how (if at all) they affect the components in general. There is just so much noise on the web about these two functions and it's hard to say which is correct vs just a sham.

The biggest misconception is how much wear occurs during a start. Fact of the matter is that most wear (90-95%) occurs during cold starts. That is hard on just about all components, starter, battery, bearings, piston rings, liners and so on. However, when you start a warm engine, that has just run, there is virtually none of these problems.

Next to the cold start relatively speaking a lot of wear occurs during the engine warm up after a cold start. We have some threads on that as well and check your operating manual. It will most likely tell you not to idle but drive off immediately not revving and or straining the engine until it’s reaches normal operating temperature. It is one of the reason why cars that are driven on short trip tend to have more issues than those that do longer drives.

Your starter stop system is disabled as long as the engine isn’t at its normal operating temperature. There are usually a few other safe guards.

First start stop system were introduced in the mid 70s. Mass adaptation by the global car manufacturer community happened during 2000-2010. Partly driven by regulatory requirements in Europe.

So it is well established feature that has been installed in millions of cars around the world. This thread shows where it goes wrong. People don’t understand what has been changed in the engine design and its components to accommodate this feature. If you would add a start stop feature to an existing engine, you are likely to see additional wear and tear of course. But as I pointed out, lots of different components are used. Strengthened for this specific start stop feature, including special coatings on the crankshafts, liners and pistons.

The problem is identical as with the thread on turbo idling. Very little technical understanding of the issue. The perceived problem simply doesn’t exist, because people extrapolate some old, historical, partly correct phenomena’s to a completely different environment. Comparing wear and tear on an (older design) engine to a modern engine is not relevant.

These days many manufactures offer more and more elaborate warranties for longer periods and more mileage as standard compared to say 10-20 years ago.

A couple of good articles explains in quite a bit of detail why you should not have to worry about these things. Please note how much overall engine and component design has been amended/altered compared to none stop start engines. Add to that you’re new found understanding of the difference between cold and warm starting and I hope I have put to rest this myth.

Do they wear out your starter for instance: NO

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...r-cars-starter

(1) The gear ratio from the starter-drive pinion to the flywheel ring gear is optimized to make the starter's motor turn more slowly. This can be done without materially changing the design of the transmission or flywheel at all on existing designs.

Crucially, this reduces starter-motor speed (in RPM), since 90 percent of starter-motor brush wear occurs not during cranking, but during the coast-down after the start has finished. If a higher-torque motor can spin more slowly, its coast-down time is shorter, increasing its longevity.

(2) The composition of the carbon and copper brushes on a stop-start motor differs from its traditional counterparts to increase longevity without accelerating the wear on the commutator.

(3) Rather than rely on oil-impregnated bushings for the rotating assemblies, stop-start starters mostly use needle bearings.

(4) The solenoid on stop-start starters decouples the mechanical action of engaging the drive pinion into the flywheel from the electrical action of stopping and starting the motor.

This allows for a dedicated design to turn power on and off to the motor, optimizing contact design and wear, against contacts that have to be integrated as part of a spring-loaded plunger.

This also reduces the electrical load requires to turn the engine, so that there is enough current available for accessories/lighting to operate during the start event.

(5) Finally, stop-start motors are integrated with other technologies that identify when each cylinder of the engine will reach top-dead center.

That lets the fuel injectors pulse and fire during the middle of a complete rotation of the crank, against having to wait for a complete revolution that lets the first cylinder reach that position to start the fuel-spark timing sequence.

Or have a look here, why start stopmsystem don’t really cause any noticeable wear and why the Internet at large believes it does.

https://www.slashgear.com/1631907/au...disadvantages/

If you're wondering if such a system is bad for your engine, the short answer is no. The long answer, however, requires a review of how this technology works.*

Read More: https://www.slashgear.com/1631907/au...disadvantages/

On the matter of warranty, I can quarantine you the start stop hack shown here will definitely void any warranty claims if the dealer finds out.

Jeroen

[raisonar]

My only worry about start/stop functions is that i 'think' it would adversely affect battery life and starter motor, when used in heavy traffic.

I dont think Europe face such traffic issues, so I cant take your data as reason to negate my concern.

I hope some study is published which can allay these fears, until then i would be prefer to switch it off when in heavy traffic, while keeping it on during normal driving.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

No, it does not harm your engine, gearbox, starter, battery or turbo. That’s all a lot of nonsense. These engines, and its components, are specifically designed to handle the continuous start/stopping. And even if they were not, it would be hardly a strain on the battery and starter. Once your engine is at normal operating temperature, it needs just a little push by the starter to start up again.

Gearboxes are not affected at all by starting and stopping. Modern turbo engines have no problems, none, on the turbo and its components due to starting/stopping features. We have a thread on the forum on idling prior shutdown. In most cases that is simply not relevant. If it is not mentioned in the owner manual, don’t worry about it.

I have a friend who has access to all data of a several lease company fleet around Europe. We are talking tens of thousands of car. The number of problems due to starting/stopping or turbo problems is almost neglible. And before people start pointing our lease companies tend to be quite new cars, these days there is a huge market for second hand older lease cars too. So the data includes cars with considerable mileage on the clock.

What is worrying or at least remarkable, members are worried about start/stop features, whereas it is a specifically designed function of the car. But they appear not be worried about a hack to permanently fix a push button that is definitely not approved or even remotely understood by members on its possible long term effects.

The fuel efficiency gains of start/stop are very small indeed. And yes, it can be annoying, so that is why the on/off switch is provided. The reason it always default to the start/stop function being is as far as I know a regulatory thing. Without it, small effect as it has, the car won’t meet its efficiency and emission limits

So we seem to be solving a none existing, imaginary, problem by a completely untested or understood hack.

Jeroen