[Ford_madhan]

Originally Posted by vina

I think he mentioned it'll be used only in fog - though I agree it'll cause a lot of confusion.

I mean if I come behind his car in compelet fog, I can see the light but not the car and next things I'm thinking is that there is car coming towards me - it is dangerous to the guy behind him (though he probably doesn't care)

The rear fog lamps are not the same as the front. They are just like red brake lights with more power and are supposed to use only if the visibility is less than 50 meters. I am not sure if any of our Indian cars come with such lights.

[vina]

Originally Posted by Ford_madhan

The rear fog lamps are not the same as the front. They are just like red brake lights with more power and are supposed to use only if the visibility is less than 50 meters. I am not sure if any of our Indian cars come with such lights.

Well my apologies to the other guys then, and this is a pretty good idea.

Apparently they are available aftermarket in India.

[mallumowgli]

Originally Posted by lucifer1881

A vehicle driving slower than the average speeds definitely poses a risk for other vehicles. This is especially true on expressways. In such cases, I think it does make sense to use your hazards to warn others of your incapacity to move faster.

On another note, hazard lights are meant to indicate if your vehicle may pose a risk to others on the road. In case of low visibility, every vehicle poses a significant risk to every other vehicle. Being lit up like a lighthouse helps.

Going by your definition, almost 50% of the vehicles on the road, whatever may the driving conditions be, should have their blinkers on!!
Since this argument is not going anywhere, am not going to post further on this subject, but let me finish by saying this - There are no rules in India against using hazard lights (for that matter, any lights), but there are many advisories against using blinkers in official RTO websites. The reason is this - Blinking lights causes distraction while driving.
I rest my case

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by lucifer1881

I would like to think that being cautious is a good thing. Hence necessary.


Like I said, what do you do in fog that lasts days? Ever tried to drive on a Northern Indian highway where you would struggle to see your hand? The fog will not lift for days. Would you wait that long?


Not debating the meaning of hazard. Simply saying that what works for Peter may not work for Tom. Road conventions are unique to every country. In India, on single carriageways we use our right turn indicator to signal to the vehicle behind that it is safe to overtake. Overtaking is the same everywhere. How one signals it differs.

That's why we have laws. You and I can sit and decide indicator is good for passing signal, and another peter and tom could decide it's good for changing the signal. Our solution could be the best, but we will still need to follow the law, or campaign to change the law. But until then, keep following it. Giving a signal and not turning or changing the lane is irreponsible driving, and could easily be termed against the law. Unfortunately as somebody mentioned, no laws about blinkers.

On another note, hazard lights are meant to indicate if your vehicle may pose a risk to others on the road. In case of low visibility, every vehicle poses a significant risk to every other vehicle. Being lit up like a lighthouse helps.

Have you even tried to imagine what your view would be like if every vehicle was lit up like a lighthouse (figuratively, as you probably intended).

[mdsaab]

^^^
You are driving on a three laned expressway. The speed limit is 80kmph. you are driving at 50kmph. So obviously you will not stick to the right most lane(Fast lane) and flash your blinkers indicating you are a hazard. You would most likely drive in the middle lane(Slower lane) at your relaxed speed of 50kmph, or maybe even the left most lane(Slowest lane or Truck lane) Hope it's clearer.
^^^

Just wanted to say that ~
if you are driving on an expressway and say the speed limit is 80 kmph
and you are comfortable driving at say 50-60 kmph.
then you should not drive on the right most lane, period.
if you drive on the middle lane or left lane you should be fine, and don't need to use your blinkers in this scenario.

[vina]

Originally Posted by mdsaab

Just wanted to say that ~
if you are driving on an expressway and say the speed limit is 80 kmph
and you are comfortable driving at say 50-60 kmph.
then you should not drive on the right most lane, period.
if you drive on the middle lane or left lane you should be fine, and don't need to use your blinkers in this scenario.

I didn't get the context - can you explain?

[nileshch]

^^^

I think he meant that in a hazardous situation, don't drive at 50 kmph on the right most lane. Take the middle or leftmost lane. Then you don't need to use the hazard lights. I agree. If you have a problem with your vehicle and you are in the rightmost lane and you are not in a position to change lanes, then of course, the hazard lights should go on.

It happened to me sometime back when an electrical fault caused the engine to switch off when the car was in motion. There was no way I could change lanes and had to slow down and stop in the same lane with the hazard lights on.

[aplang1]

The hazard flasher needs to be put on only in case of an emergency. During rains just the parking lights should suffice. I agree that drivers here up north do it in rains as well as fog. And as someone rightly pointed out it is more of a distraction to the eye than helping things out.
Please refrain from doing so as it is more of an inconvenience.

Another thing that i notice here in Mumbai is that people double park their cars on congested roads blocking the traffic movement but they leave their hazard flashers on. Everyone seems to think it is the parking signal and gives you authority to park anywhere you feel like. It's not the car its the driver who is the hazard.

[vina]

Originally Posted by nileshch

^^^

I think he meant that in a hazardous situation, don't drive at 50 kmph on the right most lane. Take the middle or leftmost lane. Then you don't need to use the hazard lights. I agree. If you have a problem with your vehicle and you are in the rightmost lane and you are not in a position to change lanes, then of course, the hazard lights should go on.

It happened to me sometime back when an electrical fault caused the engine to switch off when the car was in motion. There was no way I could change lanes and had to slow down and stop in the same lane with the hazard lights on.

I'm confused - in case of visibility so reduced that many people feel compelled to turn on blinker (wisely or not) why would anybody want to drive at 50kmph in any lane?

[lucifer1881]

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

...Giving a signal and not turning or changing the lane is irreponsible driving, and could easily be termed against the law. Unfortunately as somebody mentioned, no laws about blinkers.

I would disagree that it is irresponsible driving. It depends on the context. In our cities and dual carriageways, a turn indicator means just that - a turn indicator. But on single carriageways it is a well-practiced convention that the right turn indicator is used to indicate to the vehicle behind that it is safe to overtake. At night, this is possibly the only way for a trucker to signal to the car behind that it is safe to pass.

There is the letter of the law and there is the spirit of the law. Laws are meant to protect us. If a law is made that prevents using turn indicators to signal overtaking, then such a law harms human life since it makes overtaking at night more dangerous than before.

All I am saying is that no single practice can apply to all situations. In Nigeria, for instance, there are two separate headlight signals - one to give way and the other to ask for way. The two are quite similar but everyone uses it and it works very well for them. In India, headlight signalling means that one is asking for way. That is fine. It is the convention in India and we understand that very well.

At the end of the day, what is most important is communication among road users. Blinkers or turn indicators or headlights facilitate this communication.

[vina]

Originally Posted by lucifer1881

I would disagree that it is irresponsible driving. It depends on the context. In our cities and dual carriageways, a turn indicator means just that - a turn indicator. But on single carriageways it is a well-practiced convention that the right turn indicator is used to indicate to the vehicle behind that it is safe to overtake. At night, this is possibly the only way for a trucker to signal to the car behind that it is safe to pass.

There is the letter of the law and there is the spirit of the law. Laws are meant to protect us. If a law is made that prevents using turn indicators to signal overtaking, then such a law harms human life since it makes overtaking at night more dangerous than before.

All I am saying is that no single practice can apply to all situations. In Nigeria, for instance, there are two separate headlight signals - one to give way and the other to ask for way. The two are quite similar but everyone uses it and it works very well for them. In India, headlight signalling means that one is asking for way. That is fine. It is the convention in India and we understand that very well.

At the end of the day, what is most important is communication among road users. Blinkers or turn indicators or headlights facilitate this communication.

I'm not sure I agree with you, but as somebody pointed out, there is no law against this practice.

Regarding conventions, I get what you are saying, I have seen commercial vehicles dipping their lights repeatedly to signal they are about to overtake (or if they need space to overtake).

Let's put the question in a different way:

What is the harm if somebody does put on the blinkers - perhaps he is (some may find in amusing ) rightly trying to tell others that "guys look, visibility is poor and I'm a hazard, please stay away" - how does it inconvenience you as the other driver?

[anilisanil]

@Lucifer1881 So how would a car know when the trucker is turning right on a single carriage way?

Something that is comfortable need not always be responsible. And for someone who never reads these threads and going on single carriage ways it is confusing if someone sticks to left giving us a right a signal.

Anyway, most of the driving in India is more of understanding among all the strangers on the road than following any rules at all. And switching on hazard lamps (and calling it blinkers) is one about it.

Some great mind might be wondering (possibly while bathing or when sitting on the white throne)why this red switch is given and then he ran out into rain/fog and drove merrily telling everyone that these blinkers are for better visibility and there went the majority with him and whoever knew about the hazard lamps ended up discussing it on the internet forums, now that is what we call democracy

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

dot sir, fog lamps at the rear ?? For what ? unless you are driving in reverse for long periods in strange places. Even bright brake lamps are such a nuisance in traffic (e.g Santro).

When visibility is extremely low due to dense Fog/Intense Rain, Fog lamps help in making your car visible to others. I have seen cars with Hazards lamps and cars with Rear Fog lamps on in Dense Fog(A common sight in Winters here), Believe me cars with rear fog lamps were easier to spot. Remember the Indicators are not as bright as they use lower wattage lamps.

But because rear foglamps are very bright and irritating for others following the car, I do not recommend using them in normal visibility, I switch them only when visibility is very low. However, as front fog lamps do not cause glare to oncoming traffic(as they are focussed even lower than low beam) using them in daily usage is OK.

[sadnabrina]

Originally Posted by libranof1987

Now, when you the blinkers on, how could/should one signal lane change.
So, what is the best way you could go about lane changes, turns when you're in low visibility situations and have the hazard warning on?

I am not sure which other cars have this but in the Polo if you use the indicator stalk to indicate a lane change while you hazard lights are on, then the hazard lights automatically switch off and only one indicator starts blinking till the indicator stalk is back into neutral position (after the turn), when the hazard light comes back on.
Having said that I do not support using the hazard light in rainy and foggy conditions. Better to use fog lamps, if you have one. For people from fog prone zones buying a set of front and rear fog lamps is a "must" accessory. Oh! and NEVER drive with your fog lamps ON unless the visibility is poor due to rains or fog.

Originally Posted by Sinner666

More so, if they are put up on a heavy vehicle like a truck etc who most often have tail lamps which emit a very feeble light. I have experienced this first hand last year while driving on the Delhi-Gurgaon expressway where I could not see the tail lamps of most trucks, but on the other hand, the blinkers were very much visible from a far greater distance.

The tail lamps are feeble because they are never cleaned. The thick layer of dirt on the light results in poor visibility. We need to spend effort to educate these fellows on the importance of keeping the lights clean.

Originally Posted by lucifer1881

I would disagree that it is irresponsible driving. It depends on the context. In our cities and dual carriageways, a turn indicator means just that - a turn indicator. But on single carriageways it is a well-practiced convention that the right turn indicator is used to indicate to the vehicle behind that it is safe to overtake. At night, this is possibly the only way for a trucker to signal to the car behind that it is safe to pass.

But why in the first place would the vehicle in front need to "say" that it is safe to overtake. The vehicle in the rear is the sole responsible party in an overtake and must ensure that the road is clear in front before overtaking. If the truck being overtaken sees an obstruction in front, it is his responsibility to slow down rather than change lanes suddenly.

Originally Posted by Ford_madhan

The rear fog lamps are not the same as the front. They are just like red brake lights with more power and are supposed to use only if the visibility is less than 50 meters. I am not sure if any of our Indian cars come with such lights.

A lot of Indian cars comes with rear fog lamps. These are bright red lights placed low either at the center of the bumper or along with the right rear light assembly.

[Gautam Dhaliwal]

@ vina - I too thought it was a harmless practice of putting on blinkers, till i had a close shave due to this.

On the Mumbai - Pune expressway people put on blinkers in the tunnels. I was in such a tunnel once and there was a vehicle stopped on the hard shoulder (which is the rightmost lane in one tunnel) with its blinkers on because some plastic drums it was carrying had fallen off. In normal circumstances i could have identified this vehicle as a hazard and slowed down. However, one more set of blinkers in an already crowded tunnel is not something I gave a second thought to, i didnt slow down and had to take evasive action at the last minute.

When the conditions are hazardous, there are other ways (mentioned in posts before) of making sure you are visible to the other road users. Hazards lights are to tell road users that you are a hazard.

I dont see the point of someone indicating to me that its raining heavily, i can see!!!

Using blinkers normally makes me less alert to real hazards.