[negativeH]

Originally Posted by stormerider

Even if he stops you for anything while you were driving, you have the liberty to not pay fine(challan) and ask him to present it in court. For which he will also have to appear in the court.

But isn't it the case that if we refuse to pay a challan and contest it, the traffic cop has to confiscate out DL?

[Samba]

In 2010 October i was returning from my office at night 2-30am. I was driving alone. Around 3am i reached my flat and i was opening the garage gate. Two police men came in a bike and told me i have hit there bike. Initially i thought they must have mistaken my car from any other car. I told i have not hit anyone. The police man who was in pillion started shouting on me and told either i come to the police station or i pay a fine for rs 5,000. I am from Kolkata and i don't know the local language. They took advantage of that and were talking among themselves in kanada and was shouting on me. The police man snatched my office ID card and told if i don't pay they will come and arrest me. I was all alone in middle of the night. At first i lost my cool and was scared. Later i just calmed down and asked the junior officer to keep quiet and let me deal with his senior. I have always seen the juniors to be more rude and non understanding than there seniors. I straight away told him even you know i have not hit your bike and i cant pay you rs5,000 lets settle it for rs 500. The senior guy asked for 1000 i told 500 again and he agreed! I should have started from rs 50. I paid him. Asked him to erase my car number from his book and he told not to worry he is the on duty officer of that area in night. So after paying rs 500 next day when i was returning i saw both of them standing some 500 meters away from my flat. The police men just smiled seeing me and didn't ask anything. So what i understood is if you are not a local and you travel at night, risk is always involved. In most cases people end up paying the antisocial's, i paid up the corrupt police men.

[Dry Ice]

Reading all these experience, makes me wonder, if having a dash cam can probably save us at times. Add to that a smaller spy cam in keychain or something to record the subsequent altercations.

"Wondering" because I remember reading that video is not admissible as proof in the courts. Is it true?

Many cars these days are equipped with GPS trackers, and you can pull up reports for everything - from position to speed - are these also not permissible as proof in the court? In case a cop is wrongly harassing you claiming overspeeding when you know you weren't!

[apachelongbow]

It is always a nuisance dealing with cops and courts. The idea being, it is a delibirately created nuisance to ensure that monied people will pay their way out, to prevent more trouble or harassment. This trap can easily be avoided if
a) We know our laws, rules and regulations well
b) We are prepared to stand in lines/queues and follow govt procedures.

When you go to the police station and the policeman is abusing you, please take out your phone cam and start recording the session, it will immediately stop the abuse and civil talk will follow, they have no choice, but be polite if they don't want to be tomorrow's news.
If you are driving and you have a lady with you, please ensure than in your FIR file, verbal/physical harassment against the lady, by the opposite party, no matter if that happened or not. What this will do, is put the opposite party on a severe back foot, because offenses against women are very serious/criminal and most are non bailable.
All these are stalling/negotiating tactics by you, to prevent extortion by either the other party or the corrupt cops.
As advised by others, in any case, don't hit and run!!, you are merely compounding your offenses and ensuring that a court case comes up against you.

Also if you are not directly involved in the accident, please don't stop to inquire or help, if you really want to be a good Samaritan then phone 100 and the local ambulance to guide them to the accident, but don't hang around, there are umpteen examples on our forum where in the innocent helper was targeted by either the victim or his/her relatives. Happy motoring

[Puneet.S]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

If you are driving and you have a lady with you, please ensure than in your FIR file, verbal/physical harassment against the lady, by the opposite party, no matter if that happened or not.

Agree with all the tips except the one quoted above - this is absolutely wrong. If you advocate this why do you advise not to hit and run? How different is that from what you have advised above? After all, both are means to save one's back - either by hook or crook!

[stormerider]

Originally Posted by negativeH

But isn't it the case that if we refuse to pay a challan and contest it, the traffic cop has to confiscate out DL?

Yes it is my friend. But most of the times these guys also don't want any hassel and are looking for some easy money from your pocket.
Which is why I said that if you are sure that it wasn't your mistake and he cannot prove, he will not risk going infront of court, where the judge might rap him up for wasting court's time.

[dipak1406]

Dear Colleagues

To all Mumbai Residents - given below is the lawyer's co-ordinates and reason behind it

Advocate Harish Shetty ( 9820201292 & 022 26796894 )

a) this guy is 38 years old
b) introduced by police constable and having excelling contacts with them
c) 90% of the time deals only in similar cases

Anyone in similar trouble can just call him and lot of their trouble can be eased when they reach Police Station courtesy his contacts with them

With the price idea mentioned earlier am sure one can negotiate intelligently. Where I ended up spending twice i.e once at PS and another time at court one can easily save at least 30% easily.

regards Deepak

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by Puneet.S

Agree with all the tips except the one quoted above - this is absolutely wrong. If you advocate this why do you advise not to hit and run? How different is that from what you have advised above? After all, both are means to save one's back - either by hook or crook!

Hit & Run = strong case against you in court
Police abusing women = strong case against police in court


I don't see how you can feel that both cause same effect?

Remember we are talking about Police folks who abuse their powers.
Such guys deserve nothing but the severest of tit for tat (whether by hook or by crook).

[Puneet.S]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Hit & Run = strong case against you in court
Police abusing women = strong case against police in court


I don't see how you can feel that both cause same effect?

Remember we are talking about Police folks who abuse their powers.
Such guys deserve nothing but the severest of tit for tat (whether by hook or by crook).

I think you have misread the post. Where does @apachelongbow mention this as a tactic to be used against the Police (he advises this to be used against 'the other party' involved in an accident)? Besides, do you really think police would register an FIR against their own personnel just because one alleges?

[pahwa]

Deepak! Sorry for what you went through. Best part is - you were brave. This can happen to anyone. You sailed through because you were strong and did not want to settle it out of court paying lacs of rupees for no fault of yours.

Just a note - if the court decides a compensation for the victim, it should come from your insurance company as 3rd party claimed. This too is a huge nexus between the police and victims at times. A friend of mine was involved in something similar and his insurance company had to pay Rs. 3 lac to the victim. Needless to say, the mediator (the police) kept most of this money!

[swiftnfurious]

Thank You for sharing your experience. Even I used to worry about such things - what would happen in case... This would definitely help and there are multiple posts which give more tips.

Want to echo someone's question. Would NOT a dash cam video be presented as a proof if we are NOT at fault? With very affordable chinese cams available right now, it would NOT hurt to have one in the front & rear to prove your innocence.

[GTO]

Guys,

Please remember that your insurance policy (whether comprehensive or 3rd party) gives you protection from claims by 3rd parties. That's what you are paying the insurance company an annual premium for! Use it. Your insurance policy will cover damages to anyone else / other vehicles.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by GTO

Guys,

Please remember that your insurance policy (whether comprehensive or 3rd party) gives you protection from claims by 3rd parties. That's what you are paying the insurance company an annual premium for! Use it. Your insurance policy will cover damages to anyone else / other vehicles.

What is the procedure for this?
I guess the FIR has to be logged, and the 3rd party has to write a claim to my Insurer with a copy of this FIR.

You have the details on what exactly to do in such cases?

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by GTO

Guys,

Please remember that your insurance policy (whether comprehensive or 3rd party) gives you protection from claims by 3rd parties. That's what you are paying the insurance company an annual premium for! Use it. Your insurance policy will cover damages to anyone else / other vehicles.

Originally Posted by alpha1

What is the procedure for this?
I guess the FIR has to be logged, and the 3rd party has to write a claim to my Insurer with a copy of this FIR.

You have the details on what exactly to do in such cases?

In addition to the FIR, what happens to the vehicle in question? I guess it will be in the police custody until the case is solved.

Interesting read - http://businesstoday.intoday.in/stor.../1/187457.html

Third-party insurance is compulsory for vehicle-owners and can be used in such cases. But not many seem to remember to claim it when their vehicle is hit by another. Even if they do, they probably drop the idea after learning about the complications involved.

COMPLEX COURSE
The extensive procedure starts with filing an FIR with the police and obtaining a charge sheet. After this, a case has to be filed in a special court, the Motor Accident Claims Tribunal. Civil courts cannot decide road accident compensation claims. "The case should be filed in the tribunal with jurisdiction over the area where the accident occurred," says Amitabh Jain, head of customer service, motor, ICICI Lombard.

The complaint can also be registered with the tribunal with jurisdiction over the area where the claimant or the defendant resides. A claim can be filed for injury, death and property damage. While there is no limit on liability for injury or death, the cover for third-party property damage is up to Rs 7.5 lakh.

Remember here that you are on your own. Your insurer will not help you file a claim against another insurer. Motor insurers have a 'knock-to-knock agreement' in which they agree to bear responsibility for damages to vehicles insured with them so long as it is covered for such damage, regardless of the liability.

"The damage to the vehicle and medical expenses is to be settled by the insurer who has covered it and no claim will be recoverable from the insurer of the vehicle responsible," says Mukesh Kumar, head, strategic planning and marketing, HDFC ERGO General Insurance.

If you are still keen on moving the tribunal, make sure you have all the documents in place. "Ensure that proper narration of the incident is recorded in the FIR and original records of expenses are kept to substantiate the pecuniary losses," says Ajay Bimbhet, MD, Royal Sundaram Alliance Insurance.

MAKING A CLAIM
In case of injury, one can claim medical expenses, compensation for physical disfigurement and loss of earnings (if a person is not able to work after the accident). In case of death, the dependents can claim compensation on the basis of the income of the deceased. Medical expenses can also be claimed for treatment of the injury that was the cause of death. For property damage, surveyor's report, original bills and motor vehicle inspection report are required to quantify the loss.

"On an average, in third-party claims involving bodily injury or death, the turnaround time is one to two years," says Vijay Kumar, president, motor insurance, Bajaj Allianz General Insurance.

However, the trickiest part is establishing the other party's fault in court. The victim has to establish negligence for compensation. Only after this can damages be claimed from the wrongdoer and his insurance company. So, you cannot be sure of getting any money until the court decides in your favour.

And if you happen to get less than what you had filed for, do not expect your insurer to pay the difference. Compensation for the same damage cannot be claimed more than once. Also, due to the number of pending cases, the court may give you a date, say, six months forward. Therefore, there is a chance of getting stuck for a long time.

"Even though it is legally possible, we have so far no experience of anybody claiming third-party compensation. The process is cumbersome and time-consuming," says Kumar. According to insurance regulators data for 2010-11, total 'own damages' claims paid by the industry for private cars and two-wheelers was Rs 3,459 crore, while third-party claims were only Rs 1,300 crore.

"No customer is willing to take so much trouble for a small crash that can be swiftly settled with an own-damages claim," says Kumar.

Those who do not have a comprehensive motor cover and are solely depend on third-party compensation, do not forget to jot down the offending vehicle's registration number. This is the only way to track down the vehicle and lodge a complaint.

[N.A.GTC]

This is a very interesting thread. Thanks to everyone who contributed their experiences here, they are really helpful and enlightening. I have always thought that having a dashboard camera is a great idea, but have not been able to find a good one, which records at a good frame rate with good resolution. If anyone has knowledge about where they can be found or a DIY for this, I would really appreciate.

Another thing, I don't think the police officer who sends the challan to court has to appear in the court. Only the victims are presented. This is true in Delhi atleast.