[Sherlocked]

Originally Posted by invidious

So except for a few mountain regions in India where it snows - the necessity of ABS will be largely negated.

Hope this wasn't conveyed to you by an over enthusiastic car salesman.

[invidious]

Originally Posted by Zappo

I don't where you got your info but evidently you can do with some more reading around these. ABS simply prevents wheel lockup that happens in panic braking situations. It is superfluous to state that at high speeds if the wheels suddenly lock up it can lead to catastrophic and unpredictable results like slide, skid, uncontrolled spin or even toppling of the vehicle.

Originally Posted by Sherlocked

Hope this wasn't conveyed to you by an over enthusiastic car salesman.

I stated the necessity of ABS is negated. I did not state it is completely useless. Of course a car skids in rain and of course ABS helps; let me assure you it skids significantly more on black ice and it is far more useful in those conditions.

I wish it has been a car salesman - I am saying this from personal experience having driven through a bunch of snow storms and on icy roads in both ABS and non-ABS cars. And having driven on rain drenched roads in ABS and non-ABS cars too. On my first day of driving on black ice in a non-ABS car - the car promptly did a 360. Irrespective of my car having ABS or standard brakes, I have never lost control while driving in rain and I have driven in pretty severe rain. On icy surfaces your car may skid with ABS too but you will be able to control the steering - without ABS you are pretty much on a wing and a prayer. The braking distance is actually longer on ice if you have ABS - but the more important thing is that you can steer the car into a safer position.

Do read this -

http://www.wikihow.com/Drive-on-Black-Ice

[Sherlocked]

Originally Posted by invidious

I stated the necessity of ABS is negated.

You stated the necessity of ABS is largely negated which is completely wrong. ABS has far more benefits than that alone. Both under slow speed driving and high speed driving, under dry as well as in wet conditions ABS is immensely useful.

I remembered this incidence where a car salesman who was pushing for a lower model since he had that only in his stockyard and he argued that since we don't have to drive in snow hence ABS is mostly not needed for India.

Typical sales pitch, right? I took it as a pinch of salt and moved on.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by invidious

The braking distance is actually longer on ice if you have ABS - but the more important thing is that you can steer the car into a safer position.

While I agree that ABS is most useful on black ice, we surely can't neglect it on normal road even with perfect weather conditions. It'll also help in panic braking situations- pretty common on Indian highways, maybe not as common in countries where driving sense is better.

ABS does increase braking distance in any situation it kicks in, but that's better than losing control and not being able to stop right?

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[invidious]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

While I agree that ABS is most useful on black ice, we surely can't neglect it on normal road even with perfect weather conditions. It'll also help in panic braking situations- pretty common on Indian highways, maybe not as common in countries where driving sense is better.

ABS does increase braking distance in any situation it kicks in, but that's better than losing control and not being able to stop right?

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Overall, you are correct - we can't neglect it and it is useful. I was merely stating it is not as useful in normal driving conditions as some marketing chaps would have us believe. It is better to have ISOFIX than not - I'd rather have 6 airbags than two. The more safety features in a car, the merrier it is.


ABS reduces braking distance in normal driving conditions; in conditions where braking is difficult because of lack of traction like on black-ice the braking distance increases for most drivers unless they are specialist drivers trained in something called "threshold braking". I don't remember it as well as I'd like - it has been over 15 years since I attended an optional seminar on safe driving to reduce my insurance premium.

[landcruiser123]

^^ While I agree with most points, I would like to point out that prevention of the accident is better. So, ABS is important.

If you point a gun at my head and ask me to choose b/w ABS and dual airbags, I would choose ABS.

[thirdmainroad]

Hi people,

I came across an interesting post on Drive without Borders on Facebook.

Someone seems to have an issue with the braking on a Baleno on bad roads, and the dealership has said it's how ABS works. Below is the original post

Kotesh RaoDrive Without Borders

I have been using baleno(alpha) for the past one year. When going above 50kmph in rough roads, speed breakers, murram roads etc, if i apply breaks the vehicle is slipping and moving atleast more than 20 feet. When i given complaint in the service centre, they were saying it is bcoz of ABS and its normal. Earlier i used Getz and though it doesn't have ABS, it never slipped. And ABS being an advanced technology should increase the safety but it is compromising the safety...
They are saying it is same for any vehicle.
Is there anyone facing the issue on baleno...
I think it is manufacturing flaw in baleno..
I am a speedy driver.

Many people are bashing ABS on the post, and I thought I'd post it here to see what you guys think.

I don't think I've quite experienced this on my cars with ABS. Yes, there is some "slip" on gravel roads, but nothing that makes me fear ABS or makes me feel I do not have proper braking control.

What do you guys think?

Another issue with the Baleno?

[d3mon]

>>I am a speedy driver.

The problem lies between the steering wheel and the driver's seat.
The behavior described seems perfectly normal for ABS.

[self_driven]

There could be a problem with the ABS system although I'd take the 20 feet skid claim with a pinch of salt.

Also, Baleno was recalled to resolve ABS issue last year. Did Speedy Driver miss that or what?

[PaddleShifter]

Speedy driver or not, a few queries can help in resolution:

1. Does the driver feel a pulsating pedal upon braking in those scenarios (an indication that ABS is working)?

2. Does he have access to another Baleno for testing the behaviour in similar conditions? Maybe dealership can help by sending their test drive car if there is a suitable road not too far from their location.

20 feet is certainly not normal. A good driver won't miss a pulsating pedal. I have been in a similar situation and despite some skidding, thankfully my Punto always managed with good braking.

A few months back, I was driving a non-ABS car in mountains near Devprayag in Uttarakhand. I am lucky to be alive after the car with 50-55% used up Yokohama Earth-1 tyres drifted twice in alternate directions after going over a muddy patch on an under construction road. My Need for Speed Underground2 and GTA drifting experience came handy that day.

[clevermax]

Probably he is not used to the 'feel' of ABS, especially in slippery roads (roads with gravel or water on its surface.) Since he has mentioned that he experiences it on "bad" roads, I think this is the case - ABS kicks in sooner, compared to normal tarmac.

The point at which ABS kicks in really depends on the road - if the road surface has gravel, ABS can kick in with even with a lighter application of brakes, and then it can feel somewhat odd on your right foot.

He should test the stopping distance on that road with two similar cars, one with ABS and the other without ABS, to prove conclusively that the ABS equipped car takes longer to stop - if it's true, then it is a problem!

[Artyom]

I think its the same feeling/issue like the one encountered in Creta.
The moment you are on gravel or undulated road and you brake hard you will feel the juddering and all kind of noises which according to Hyundai is the ABS kicking in.
The response & feedback of ABS kicking in on tarmac is not noticeable as against on bad roads where you can every spring and nut working hard to halt the vehicle.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by clevermax

Since he has mentioned that he experiences it on "bad" roads, I think this is the case - ABS kicks in sooner, compared to normal tarmac.

The point at which ABS kicks in really depends on the road - if the road surface has gravel, ABS can kick in with even with a lighter application of brakes, and then it can feel somewhat odd on your right foot.

Looks like this. I have experienced in my Celerio as well over bad roads or with loose gravel. The tyre does not have enough traction and even with moderate braking the ABS intervenes. When the road surface is not even it wont let the tyre interact with the road and traction is very low. Hence it is an issue that is compelling me to look for a better tyre or a bigger tyre when it comes for replacement. On tarmac it is never an issue.

[GeneralJazz]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Looks like this. I have experienced in my Celerio as well over bad roads or with loose gravel. The tyre does not have enough traction and even with moderate braking the ABS intervenes. When the road surface is not even it wont let the tyre interact with the road and traction is very low. Hence it is an issue that is compelling me to look for a better tyre or a bigger tyre when it comes for replacement. On tarmac it is never an issue.

ABS kicks in when the wheels start to slip above a threshold. Slip is wheel velocity vs car velocity. Tendency to slip is way more on slippery surfaces than tarmac, hence ABS kicks in sooner.

[trail_lover]

I drive a 2022 Toyota Glanza. It has ABS and ESP. I hear loud sounds from the front wheels or bottom of the car, especially during sudden braking before a speed breaker on muddy roads with gravel or stones.

Sometimes but rarely the sound also occurs on slopy rough roads even on slightly pressing the brake pedal in slow speeds. The sounds are rough like something scraping on the bottom or cracking sound of the car or something. I just assumed that this is the ABS.

Of course the ABS lamp in the cluster will glow if there's some malfunction in the ABS system. This to me is sort of theoretical. In my previous cars in many situations I've felt that ABS wasn't working properly even though the ABS lamp is OFF?

However, I've never heard the screeching of wheels during sudden braking on tarmac in all the ABS models I owned. But in many instances I've had the wheels lock and slip on gravel or roads with lot of stones.

How do we check if ABS is really working or not in an automobile and if the system is efficacious enough? Any easy tests to find out? If Team-BHPians can show me information that could be understand better I would be very grateful. Thank you