My Experiments With Truth - Road Accident

download2live · 24th July 2010, 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMT

Sorry- touchy topic and I too had to say my mind.

No need to apolgize.
Did expect some amount of flaming on that.

RemingtonSteele · 24th July 2010, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

If Iam to be responsible for anomalies in the system because I am part of it then the onus fixing the system(atleast the one in which they operate) is entirely their(cops) own responsibility. Why should they deserve any sympathy from the common man that they harass so much.

Yes, agreed that there are a few good police. But then how does it matter. For every one person like me who helps a victim there are hundreds out there who flee. So its all the same. Nothing matters. System or no system. You and only you are solely responsible for your individual actions, whatever they may be.

@Jay, I am sorry Jay if I have hurt you. I know its you who is facing the heat; and its easy for me to just speak.

As I said earlier its better said than done.

horabonny · 24th July 2010, 15:04

Hi Jay,
I think what you intend to do is right. Most probably, in this kind of case, the complainants won't turn up, i.e. in case, summons turn up at all, given the rotten system (and nature of case). And those lawyers outside on the road will just do it for that money. All you need to do is accept guilty in court and pay the charges (charges for keeping your own conscience clean).

What you did was brave. No, I wouldn't stop, just go to a police station and accept guilty. Say that I ran for the fear of being mobbed and beaten up. Pay whatever the fines, settle the matter there and then. That's how the so called system works.

I imagine if this is the state in Mumbai, what can we await in rural India. Trust the words, only Gods run this country, after all, it's God's own country.

Whether it's the touts (NGO's), doctors, police (read vultures) or whoever involved, all they seek, is their share in the whole drama. Anything like this is an opportunity to make money at cost of stepping on others (even patient's) heads, if required.

Some one wrote about China, they have still brought their population under control with their tough laws (read which are enforced). With the population ever increasing, at the given speed, I see little hope, if at all.

SS-Traveller · 24th July 2010, 15:36

Jayant, this is a sad state of affairs indeed. I am inclined to believe that it was a set-up that trapped you, with the woman (no lady by any standards!) trying to fake an accident - it was altogether a different outcome and she got injured, probably because of her drunken state.

Wish you all the best in getting out of this with the least losses and headaches.

apachelongbow · 24th July 2010, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by prince_pervez

Sorry to hear about the whole ordeal. It is good that you helped that female. Only thing is I feel you should not have allowed the cops to intervene that much. You should have taken the husband and wife to the hospital and cleared off the bill and come off.

I agree it was a good deed to help an injured person. To all legal experts or lawyers in our forum: Is it mandatory that we help/compensate for such an injured person, who was drunk, homeless and illegally residing under a government road/property? What does the law say in this case? Is it the fault of the driver who I assume, shouldn't expect to watch out for illegal squatters under a bridge/flyover/footpath etc. I mean we all pay vehicle taxes, road taxes and income taxes in-order to get a decent road to drive.
Everyone please can we discuss this?

nowwhat? · 24th July 2010, 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMT

Download2Live- please dont include all indians in you definition of 'Indian'.
You walk away due to our upbring and values. You can rationalise it but please dont drag all indians into one category.

My own parents and close relatives have benefitted from the kindness of absolute strangers when others chose to drive away.

It is a question of your upbringing and value system. If you can live with it on your consience then perhaps you can walk away.

That said, it is surprising how many so called educated people 'rationalise' it and blame everyone else/the system.

No ones said it was easy, however please dont blame lack individual strength on the weakness of society.

Sorry- touchy topic and I too had to say my mind.

Hats off to Jay.

KMT, I do not think it is as simple as that. You also have to bear the location in mind.

If a similar situation happened to me in Bangalore, I would do as Jay did.

On the other hand, if it was Bombay I would probably do exactly as download2live says. Don't stop and don't help.

Why? Because when I was living in Bombay long ago I was involved in accidents where my friend was the driver and I was the passenger. Both times he & I both were beaten up by the crowd, the local goons and even the police. Both times my friend was held captive and I had to go to his parents to beg for money to pay everyone off.

MihirC · 24th July 2010, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadu

It wouldn't be surprising if she puposely did it to extract some money on the spot, its another thing that it went into a wrong direction and not as per her plans. You couldnt see her but she could, Safari is not a a small vehicle even in the drk to miss.

Police is actually trying to make a quick buck by putting pressure on you and making cases against you by misleading the other party, its always better to get something in written from the other party for no claims later but in such circumstances one usually is in a different state of mind.

I couldnt agree more with you. For those of you who are aware of the kailash lassi walla at dadar east just where the over head W-E bridge ends, there used to be a gang of beggar women children and the guys. That area is usually crowded in the evenings with bumper to bumper traffic. Now these beggar women used to catch an oppurtunity and push their kids in front of the slow moving cars then gather around and start wailing and then the males wouth gather and make a ruckus to extract money. Havent seen the group in a long time now.

prince_pervez · 24th July 2010, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

I assume, shouldn't expect to watch out for illegal squatters under a bridge/flyover/footpath etc. I mean we all pay vehicle taxes, road taxes and income taxes in-order to get a decent road to drive.
Everyone please can we discuss this?

There is a whole thread on this, search for the jaywalking thread.

jaysmokesleaves · 24th July 2010, 22:58

I think its probably true. These people succeed because people like us, pay up. Pay the cons, pay the police, pay them all.. but they dont seem to go away because they have got a taste of our weakeness. We dont want out get out of our comfort zone and STOP them. We are too preoccupied with our daily chores and are afraid of disruptions in our planned and scheduled lives. So we fear such events... and they continue to plague us in some form or the other.

prince_pervez · 24th July 2010, 23:00

^^This will increase as the gap between the rich and the poor widens.

pawan_pullarwar · 25th July 2010, 13:17

Sorry to hear about your situation Jay, in our forum there should be many lawyers to help you. Do not give up, fight it back, I would suggest you to file complaint against the police man who provoked the injured lady to file a case. It is always good to harassed the guy who harassed you. If he also get his sleep away than he himself come back to settle with you.

lsp · 25th July 2010, 21:02

Jay,
Sad turn of events. Kudos for handling the situation in a mature way & tending to the woman's injuries (even if it was her fault).

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

The husband in the meantime after some explaining from the havaldars and discussion with his wife, decided not to press charges if I paid them for the damages and some extra money. We agreed to a sum, the police took signed statements from them that they were mutually setteling the case and did not want to press charges. I paid them, and we all departed.

Did you get a copy of that document? I am sure you are consulting your lawyer on this matter. What's his take on this?

jaysmokesleaves · 25th July 2010, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar

Sorry to hear about your situation Jay, in our forum there should be many lawyers to help you. Do not give up, fight it back, I would suggest you to file complaint against the police man who provoked the injured lady to file a case. It is always good to harassed the guy who harassed you. If he also get his sleep away than he himself come back to settle with you.

Pawan, I do feel harassed but not to the point that I will bite back. In fact, I have almost forgotten what happened 2 weeks ago. A police job is harrasment enough for the cops. They are never peaceful. The victim in my case will probably always be intoxicated enough to not be worried about anything. So why should I spoil my sleep. What has to happen will, and when it does, I shall frame my response accordingly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lsp

Jay,
Sad turn of events. Kudos for handling the situation in a mature way & tending to the woman's injuries (even if it was her fault).

Did you get a copy of that document? I am sure you are consulting your lawyer on this matter. What's his take on this?

I do have a copy of the FIR. And no point wasting time and money to find a lawyer now. Let the court send summons. Then I will find a lawyer second hearing onwards. Im sure lawyers are available dime a dozen outside the court.. for when the time comes.

coloneljasi · 26th July 2010, 12:38

I'd like to narrate an incident that involved my Dad a few years ago. Mods: If this is not relevant to this thread, please move as needed.

My dad had once stopped to check a scooter rider who crashed into a divider. This was on a busy city street with heavy rush hour traffic. Even as he was pulling over, other vehicle drivers and passengers advised him not to stop and get involved.

Being a doctor, my Dad took it upon himself to check the rider who was not severely injured anyway. Just to make sure, my Dad offered to take him to his clinic and do a more detailed checkup.

As soon as he got back into his car, two bystanders got into the car with the injured rider. When they got to the clinic, Dad dressed his wounds and prescribed a few painkillers and antibiotics. Then Dad was shocked to hear the rider ask him for compensation! The rider cooked up a story wherein it was Dad's car that had hit him and he was treated because my Dad felt guilty!?!

My Dad's a pretty docile person but an accusation like this almost ticked him off. When the bystanders concurred the rider's cock-and-bull story, he couldn't believe it. This was the thanks that he got for being a good Samaritan and doing his duty as a doctor!

Luckily the local political workers got involved as Dad's been their local doctor for a very long time. When they asked the rider and his so-called associates why there were no scratches or damages on Dad's car, they started to back off. They made a quick exit when an angry crowd started to gather.

Unfortunately, my Dad is likely to think twice before he helps a victim or injured in the streets. And that's definitely not a good thing.

BTW: This did not happen in a metro, but own very own Calicut!

KMT · 26th July 2010, 15:08

download2live / Nowwhat?

Sorry again if I appeared curt or one sided, as I said, my family have benefitted hugely form the kindness of strangers.

Most of the drama in accident cases is caused by poor people who like to take the chance to take out their furstrations on the 'rich' and cops who want to make money on the side.

My logic is that we depend on each other in a so called 'civil society'.
Unfortunately each time we let the system overwhelm us we will take the system down a few more notches and eventually leave our kids in an unlivable country.
In addition you dont want to go to sleep everynight with the uneasy feeling on your conscience that you ran over someone and may have caused serious injury.

In the end whatever we think we will do in such a situation will only be tested when we are actually faced with such a situation. I guess that you have been burnt by tying to do the right thing and have changed your view now.

If we were to think out of the square, I believe there are options for us to remedy the situation (help the injured party) without compromising our own situation too much.

24th July 2010, 15:04	#48
horabonny BHPian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: mumbai Posts: 60 Thanked: Once	Hi Jay, I think what you intend to do is right. Most probably, in this kind of case, the complainants won't turn up, i.e. in case, summons turn up at all, given the rotten system (and nature of case). And those lawyers outside on the road will just do it for that money. All you need to do is accept guilty in court and pay the charges (charges for keeping your own conscience clean). What you did was brave. No, I wouldn't stop, just go to a police station and accept guilty. Say that I ran for the fear of being mobbed and beaten up. Pay whatever the fines, settle the matter there and then. That's how the so called system works. I imagine if this is the state in Mumbai, what can we await in rural India. Trust the words, only Gods run this country, after all, it's God's own country. Whether it's the touts (NGO's), doctors, police (read vultures) or whoever involved, all they seek, is their share in the whole drama. Anything like this is an opportunity to make money at cost of stepping on others (even patient's) heads, if required. Some one wrote about China, they have still brought their population under control with their tough laws (read which are enforced). With the population ever increasing, at the given speed, I see little hope, if at all. Last edited by horabonny : 24th July 2010 at 15:16.
	() Thanks

24th July 2010, 15:36	#49
SS-Traveller Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: New Delhi Posts: 8,164 Thanked: 27,143 Times View My Garage	Jayant, this is a sad state of affairs indeed. I am inclined to believe that it was a set-up that trapped you, with the woman (no lady by any standards!) trying to fake an accident - it was altogether a different outcome and she got injured, probably because of her drunken state. Wish you all the best in getting out of this with the least losses and headaches.
	() Thanks

24th July 2010, 22:58	#54
jaysmokesleaves Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mostly Mumbai Posts: 1,702 Thanked: 1,452 Times	I think its probably true. These people succeed because people like us, pay up. Pay the cons, pay the police, pay them all.. but they dont seem to go away because they have got a taste of our weakeness. We dont want out get out of our comfort zone and STOP them. We are too preoccupied with our daily chores and are afraid of disruptions in our planned and scheduled lives. So we fear such events... and they continue to plague us in some form or the other.
	() Thanks

24th July 2010, 23:00	#55
prince_pervez Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Redwood shores, CA, USA Posts: 4,210 Thanked: 51 Times View My Garage	^^This will increase as the gap between the rich and the poor widens.
	() Thanks

25th July 2010, 13:17	#56
pawan_pullarwar BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Pune - Now in Munich, Germany Posts: 778 Thanked: 129 Times	Sorry to hear about your situation Jay, in our forum there should be many lawyers to help you. Do not give up, fight it back, I would suggest you to file complaint against the police man who provoked the injured lady to file a case. It is always good to harassed the guy who harassed you. If he also get his sleep away than he himself come back to settle with you.
	() Thanks

26th July 2010, 12:38	#59
coloneljasi BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: KL-11 Posts: 686 Thanked: 251 Times View My Garage	I'd like to narrate an incident that involved my Dad a few years ago. Mods: If this is not relevant to this thread, please move as needed. My dad had once stopped to check a scooter rider who crashed into a divider. This was on a busy city street with heavy rush hour traffic. Even as he was pulling over, other vehicle drivers and passengers advised him not to stop and get involved. Being a doctor, my Dad took it upon himself to check the rider who was not severely injured anyway. Just to make sure, my Dad offered to take him to his clinic and do a more detailed checkup. As soon as he got back into his car, two bystanders got into the car with the injured rider. When they got to the clinic, Dad dressed his wounds and prescribed a few painkillers and antibiotics. Then Dad was shocked to hear the rider ask him for compensation! The rider cooked up a story wherein it was Dad's car that had hit him and he was treated because my Dad felt guilty!?! My Dad's a pretty docile person but an accusation like this almost ticked him off. When the bystanders concurred the rider's cock-and-bull story, he couldn't believe it. This was the thanks that he got for being a good Samaritan and doing his duty as a doctor! Luckily the local political workers got involved as Dad's been their local doctor for a very long time. When they asked the rider and his so-called associates why there were no scratches or damages on Dad's car, they started to back off. They made a quick exit when an angry crowd started to gather. Unfortunately, my Dad is likely to think twice before he helps a victim or injured in the streets. And that's definitely not a good thing. BTW: This did not happen in a metro, but own very own Calicut!
	() Thanks

26th July 2010, 15:08	#60
KMT BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Coorg Posts: 455 Thanked: 877 Times	download2live / Nowwhat? Sorry again if I appeared curt or one sided, as I said, my family have benefitted hugely form the kindness of strangers. Most of the drama in accident cases is caused by poor people who like to take the chance to take out their furstrations on the 'rich' and cops who want to make money on the side. My logic is that we depend on each other in a so called 'civil society'. Unfortunately each time we let the system overwhelm us we will take the system down a few more notches and eventually leave our kids in an unlivable country. In addition you dont want to go to sleep everynight with the uneasy feeling on your conscience that you ran over someone and may have caused serious injury. In the end whatever we think we will do in such a situation will only be tested when we are actually faced with such a situation. I guess that you have been burnt by tying to do the right thing and have changed your view now. If we were to think out of the square, I believe there are options for us to remedy the situation (help the injured party) without compromising our own situation too much.
	() Thanks