[suresh_gs]

Originally Posted by shaktisarangi

I agree that the parents are to be blamed for this incident. I myself have a young child and have been using a car seat from the beginning. I see small kids sitting in the lap on the front seat everywhere and wonder if these people have any idea of the serious risk involved. Really sad..

One sudden brake application is all that is needed to separate from TO LIVE and TO DIE. Unfortunately parents who seat their kids on their lap while driving do not seem to realize the fatal consequences.

[aneezan]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

I have a unique problem. I keep telling my wife but she is not ready to invest on a baby seat (including ones on OLX/quikr for 1500/-) and secondly, when the baby starts yelling "papa papa" / "appa appa" she becomes sentimental and sits on the front seat with the baby in the lap. I have also told many times to look at countries like USA / UK where educated people make rules. None of it seems to work.

Is there some way to handle it.

Your problem isn't unique of-course. We've all had to go through this. Baby wails, mom puts it on her lap in the front passenger seat. I've had my share of fights as well. In the end, it took only a few days for her to realize after i showed her some videos on you tube.
Now, my 4 year old son will never ever sit in the car without a car seat and he makes sure he belted up properly.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by autobahnjpr

I think the parents have already been punished by losing their child and they need support and not admonishment, advice or throwing rule book at them.

No parent deserves to see their child dead and I sympathize with them to that extent, but I feel much worse for the child who died for no fault of her own. In a developed country, the couple would probably be charged with endangering a child's life or worse, but here we just write a life off and move on. Why shouldn't the couple be held responsible for the child's death?

[Chetan_Rao]

The Jaipur infant death case prompted this post of mine. I'm not yet a parent myself, but have a 3-year old niece I'm very fond of. I don't intend to offend any responsible parents on this thread.

What does the law say about culpability in such cases, where infants die because of guardian's carelessness? Is there a provision to charge them for wrongful death/death by negligence/any other equivalent charge?

It feels very wrong that people (even if grieving parents) get to walk away for causing a death without any consequences (except losing their child to their own stupidity, of course).

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

The Jaipur infant death case prompted this post of mine. I'm not yet a parent myself, but have a 3-year old niece I'm very fond of. ...

Do you ever have reason to take, or to be asked to take, the child in your car? Whilst this might not ever happen to me, there are now three grandchildren in the family, so it might. I've determined to say no. I really, really do not want to take the responsibility of driving with an unsecured child in the car.

I have a regular lift-home-from-concerts 80-yr-old passenger. He finds the back-seat buckles very awkward, but still accepts my insistence. One recent passenger in my car who said he was really not used to wearing seatbelts was a Brit! Back home, he drives a van, and it seems that delivery drivers are still exempt from the seat-belt rule in UK.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Do you ever have reason to take, or to be asked to take, the child in your car?

We live in different cities and it's usually me visiting them on vacation, so I've never really gotten into the situation you mention, yet (more so because I usually don't drive others' cars even if offered). But it does bother me that there's a kid in my own family being driven around unsecured at times in my presence (when she's cranky) and I can't do much about it because I'm not her parent.

Even though I stand my ground when it comes to traveling in my car, I dread the situation all the time. Emphasizing safety without domestic conflict is difficult, esp. in India where safety is on nobody's priority list.

[sun_king]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

I have a unique problem. I keep telling my wife but she is not ready to invest on a baby seat (including ones on OLX/quikr for 1500/-) and secondly, when the baby starts yelling "papa papa" / "appa appa" she becomes sentimental and sits on the front seat with the baby in the lap. I have also told many times to look at countries like USA / UK where educated people make rules. None of it seems to work.

Is there some way to handle it.

[blunt]
I will be blunt here, your wife if being selfish, her sentiments trumps your baby's safety. This is not a negotiable scenario, this is not responsible parenting. As the driver, you should refuse to move the vehicle till the baby is secured safely. If your wife is concerned about the baby crying, she should relinquish the comforts of the front seat and occupy the rear to give company to the baby who is secured in a robust child seat. That would be a loving mother, that would be a protective father. You two should take an honest time out and try to analyze how and why your selfish desires triumphs over the safety of your offspring.

This is not unique, this is common bad parenting. The parents do what they want and wonder what went wrong later.
[/blunt]

1500 INR is not the investment, the baby is. I'd missed the presence of my wife in the front seat in many a drives, she would go back and keep my daughter busy. But guess what, time still went by, the child grew up and none of us regrets the time some of us spent in the back seat.

[bblost]

Originally Posted by sun_king

I'd missed the presence of my wife in the front seat in many a drives, she would go back and keep my daughter busy. But guess what, time still went by, the child grew up and none of us regrets the time some of us spent in the back seat.

In the four years since my daughter was born, my wife has remained in the rear seat for more than 99% of the time.

Even when I bought my new car, the requirement was the ability to install two child seats and have her seated comfortable in the rear.
You can read my rambling on this point multiple times in https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-...rs-1500-a.html

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Do you ever have reason to take, or to be asked to take, the child in your car? Whilst this might not ever happen to me, there are now three grandchildren in the family, so it might. I've determined to say no. I really, really do not want to take the responsibility of driving with an unsecured child in the car.

Well, this just did happen. 'Mum' has had been ill, and has to come home from hospital today. Month-old-baby was fetched from home (admission was not expected) by another family member, who did not bring their car baby carrier.

Of course, my wife ('grandmum') says she'll hold the child and everything will be all right and, of course, chances are they would be. The last time my seatbelt actually saved me from injury was nearly twenty years ago. But that doesn't stop me from wearing it every trip.

The only thing is, I would rather have broken my principle than have them all driven by some unknown cabbie.

Anyway... they are taking the hospital car --- and I expect I'm unpopular now even though I'm the one that turned out to take mum to the hospital yesterday.

('Dad' by the way, is abroad on business, and took our joint advice to not fly home immediately unless the sickness persisted the next day --- hence the rest of the family being involved)


UPDATE... even before the edit period on this post expires, I get a call that the hospital car is not available. OK... as I said before, I believe my driving is less risk than a cabbie, so I have to do it.

Life would be easier with principles

[TheTeacher]

Originally Posted by autobahnjpr

Being a Jaipurite, I felt very sad reading this the next day in newspapers.

No human can hold on to a child in a crash. This is because the forces acting on the parents arms is: weight of child multiplied by speed (actually deceleration force). It is humanly impossible to hold on to the child at higher speeds. If the child + parent are in the front, the child will crash into the windscreen or dash. If in the back, the child can become a projectile that can also kill the passenger in the front.

My daughter is 18 now, so I forget the details. She was born in the US.

In the US, infant / child seat is always placed in the back. There are different seats (shape, size, etc. ) for infants and children; the cut off is based on weight, up to which they need to be restrained in infant seats only. Please google for images of each. For infant seat, the relevant ones will be where the infant and seat are shown inside the car.

Infant seats are affixed facing the back, i.e., the back of the seat/infant faces the windscreen. This is because in case of sudden deceleration, the back and shoulders of the infant (larger surface area) bear the deceleration forces. This is important, since infants' neck muscles aren't strong enough to support the head properly. If the seat were fixed facing the front, the infant would certainly suffer whiplash, and perhaps even a broken neck.

When my daughter was born, I was working my tail off implementing a new ERP, and hadn't done all the kiddie shopping yet. She unexpectedly came a week early. The hospital refused to allow us to take her home unless we could show the infant seat in the back seat of the car. I had to run around like a madman looking for one. All the nearby stores were out of stock, and I finally found one some 40 miles way. The hospital supervisor came down and made sure we placed her in the infant seat properly, fastened all the belts, and only then permitted us to leave.

Child seats (also called booster seats) are also fixed in the back, but face the front like regular passengers. There is an age / weight cut-off beyond which the booster seat is not necessary.

My daughter was and still is petite, and while she reached the cut-off age, she was still under the weight limit, and we made her sit in the booster seat for an additional two years, much to her chagrin.

Somebody I know in India wears his seat belt without fail. He told me the reason why: friends of his were driving inside the city in Bangalore. At low speed, the husband swung to avoid somebody who cut in his path, hit the divider, car went up and rolled over. The couple were not wearing seat belts. The husband fell on the wife's thigh with force and broke it. She was in hospital for 6 months and still walks with a limp and suffers considerable pain. Imagine what would happen to a child held in someone's arms in this situation.

Infant / child seats are NOT optional; they are a MUST. Do not even start your car without them.

[DWind]

I am having a unique problem with my sons usage of carseat.
We have a Graco car seat which my son (20 months old) has been using since he was 5 months old. Since he has become older we now fit his seat facing the direction of travel (front facing). Off late we are now facing a problem where he throws up whatever he ate before travel regardless of however small the quantity is. My wife feels it is due to the car seat squeezing his tummy and is no longer inclined to seat him through travel (She definately agrees the need for safety and also feels that he sleeps better there). I feel there is a better solution to the problem. Anybody else felt this issue and how did you resolve this.

[arishi1]

Originally Posted by TheTeacher

No human can hold on to a child in a crash. This is because the forces acting on the parents arms is: weight of child multiplied by speed (actually deceleration force). It is humanly impossible to hold on to the child at higher speeds. If the child + parent are in the front, the child will crash into the windscreen or dash. If in the back, the child can become a projectile that can also kill the passenger in the front.

Infant / child seats are NOT optional; they are a MUST. Do not even start your car without them.

Absolutely agree with you. That why I am using a child restraint system since my daughters birth. Now its time to upgrade from an infant restraint system to toddlers booster seat.

[TheTeacher]

Originally Posted by DWind

I feel there is a better solution to the problem.

DWind,

arishi1 has answered your question in the post following yours.

Your child has probably outgrown the infant seat and needs a child booster seat.

Infant seats are not meant to be positioned facing the direction of travel. A child needs at least two different kinds of seats: an infant seat to be used when an infant, and a child seat when the infant has grown up a bit (can hold head up for long periods of time, etc.).

[arishi1]

Originally Posted by DWind

I am having a unique problem with my sons usage of carseat.
We have a Graco car seat which my son (20 months old) has been using since he was 5 months old. Since he has become older we now fit his seat facing the direction of travel (front facing). Off late we are now facing a problem where he throws up whatever he ate before travel regardless of however small the quantity is. My wife feels it is due to the car seat squeezing his tummy and is no longer inclined to seat him through travel (She definately agrees the need for safety and also feels that he sleeps better there). I feel there is a better solution to the problem. Anybody else felt this issue and how did you resolve this.

DWind you would definitely need the child booster seat. The infant seat should not be used front facing and moreover its meant for infants up to 13 kg. You should look for a Child Restraint seat.

I got this one for my daughter.

[DWind]

@TheTeacher,
My son is only 20 months old. I believe he is not yet old enough to use only a booster seat. Further as per the Product Manual he is still young enough to use. Maybe I would need check on specific model. As per the manual, once the child reaches 12 Kgs he can be on forward facing position.

The model I am using is Graco Myride 65 which compares well with the model mentioned by arishi. I can use it in rear facing from 5-40 lbs (~3 Kg - 18 kg) and forward facing from 20-65 lbs (9 - 30 Kg). I shifted to forward facing once my son's leg outgrew the seat and was hitting the Seat back (around 10.5 Kgs). The problem is my Verna's seat angle is quite steep which makes him crunched while seating and probably squeezing his tummy)