[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by bblost

I am quoting this here to avoid going off-topic on the Liva Review thread.
Sawyer: I have absolutely no comments on your driving skill. I wish everyone is able to drive 35 years with any accidents.

Good of you to move this to the right thread.
First, let me just point out that I haven't been driving for all this time alone on a race track. I have been doing all my driving in what is the most abysmal driving culture in the world, on roads that sometimes seem designed to be death traps. And where so many other road users - pedestrians and two wheelers the most common - seem bent on committing hara kiri under your car. The key is to be extremely good at defensive driving, anticipation, strict no no on DUI, mobile phones and the like. And a few other things.

While I applaud the reason for a very useful and relevant thread such as this, I suggest it is also important to retain some perspective and keep the Indian context in mind.

For example, when I do anything more than the crowded city roads driving for short and known routes I referred to, I use my bigger car that is better equipped to survive. And if there was an infant on board, I would make sure that it has the quality of infant/child car seat that a company like Britax makes. With ISOFIX mounts in the car. And even so, I would be even more careful than otherwise, because in the case of a bad accident, even this may not be good enough. The danger is not realising this, under the illusion that the seat belts, airbags, child car seats and the rest will take care of things. And the child car seats that are sold and bought in India - I have no idea how safe these really are when they need to be. Or installed as correctly as they need to be to perform.

But what do people do, if they can't have such a car? Short of not travelling by road?

There also are some practical considerations that come up, that one needs to be making judgement calls about. Let's say, for example, you have a friend bringing their child and yours back from school/birthday party or the like, and they don't have a child seat for both or either. One has to make a call on whether to let them do this. A personal judgment call based on a lot of things. A little like the judgement call I make for myself too, to not buckle up at the rear in Pune city, in a car driven by someone I know. Once on the highway - even at the rear, I always buckle up.

Another example - when my children were growing up, I refused to buy them scooters/motorcycles, seeing how exposed they would be to any idiot on the road who doesn't know how to drive. They understood, reluctantly, but there was no way I was going to be able to ban them from taking the occasional lift from another friend on their two wheeler.

Once again, no issue with the philosophy espoused here. But more in India than in almost any other country in the world, this is a complex issue.

By the way, in the way this forum is moderated, is there any action taken on cars carrying TBHP stickers that flout traffic rules and culture recklessly? Perhaps there is, but if not, there certainly should be. There are enough of such cars and drivers out there.

[scopriobharath]

Originally Posted by shaktisarangi

I agree that the parents are to be blamed for this incident. I myself have a young child and have been using a car seat from the beginning. I see small kids sitting in the lap on the front seat everywhere and wonder if these people have any idea of the serious risk involved. Really sad..

I have a unique problem. I keep telling my wife but she is not ready to invest on a baby seat (including ones on OLX/quikr for 1500/-) and secondly, when the baby starts yelling "papa papa" / "appa appa" she becomes sentimental and sits on the front seat with the baby in the lap. I have also told many times to look at countries like USA / UK where educated people make rules. None of it seems to work.

Is there some way to handle it.

[TheTeacher]

Originally Posted by shaktisarangi

I agree that the parents are to be blamed for this incident. I see small kids sitting in the lap on the front seat everywhere and wonder if these people have any idea of the serious risk involved. Really sad..

Many parents are highly educated. But they won't buy a car seat for their child. I know a couple like that. Even after explaining to them why they need to buy a car seat immediately, and their promise to do so, they hadn't bought one when I met them after several months. Truly mind-boggling.

[Rajeev1]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

I have a unique problem. I keep telling my wife but she is not ready to invest on a baby seat (including ones on OLX/quikr for 1500/-) and secondly, when the baby starts yelling "papa papa" / "appa appa" she becomes sentimental and sits on the front seat with the baby in the lap. I have also told many times to look at countries like USA / UK where educated people make rules. None of it seems to work.

Is there some way to handle it.

Bharath - your problem is not unique - i have faced it too . Delivering the message without creating marital discord is a huge challenge - i agree. I used to tell my wife that i was unable to see the left rear view mirror as they (wife + kid on lap) were obstructing my line of sight and hence i cannot drive. This worked like a charm and made both of them sit in the rear seat. Now of course, my kid has grown up and cannot sit on mamas lap anymore and the issue is permanently resolved!

Another thought i had on this specific case is that, in such cases, wearing a seat belt over the passenger + baby might still prove detrimental in case of an accident as the g forces would act on the baby from both sides in case of a sudden impact.

[balajird]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

I have a unique problem.
Is there some way to handle it.

I had this problem with my daughter (and not my wife), the method which worked for me is to have my wife sit along with my daughter in the back seat, this way if my daughter shouts "daddy", my wife would let her understand that daddy is driving and that she cant talk / play with me.

May be you could have your wife sit in the rear seat along with your daughter in her car seat (not sure if you have done it already) and give your daughter a comfort zone, after a while (may be about 3 to 6 months) they will get used to it and your wife could move to front seat.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

I have a unique problem. I keep telling my wife but she is not ready to invest on a baby seat (including ones on OLX/quikr for 1500/-) and secondly, when the baby starts yelling "papa papa" / "appa appa" she becomes sentimental and sits on the front seat with the baby in the lap. I have also told many times to look at countries like USA / UK where educated people make rules. None of it seems to work.

Is there some way to handle it.

I have thought of this, but I have no idea whether it is reasonable or safe to try it, especially if all occupants are not belted.

Put two or three bags of sugar into a carrier bag and tie into a bundle. Acclerate to a "normal" speed and do a simple emergency stop, as if someone had just walked into the road in front of you.

That should give your wife a better idea of the forces involved, and she might then listen when told that, in an actual accident, things would be much, much worse.

Repeating the warning: this might cause damage to your car or your family, and should certainly only be tried with properly-worn seatbelts. I had a bruise on my head from an unbelted sudden brake in a car moving at barely more than walking pace.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

I have a unique problem. I keep telling my wife but she is not ready to invest on a baby seat (including ones on OLX/quikr for 1500/-) and secondly, when the baby starts yelling "papa papa" / "appa appa" she becomes sentimental and sits on the front seat with the baby in the lap. I have also told many times to look at countries like USA / UK where educated people make rules. None of it seems to work.

Is there some way to handle it.

The way I've done it is to don a figurative chauffeurs hat, in the good sense, and have the Mrs in the back seat, with the baby's car seat.
A lot of men, and even the wives, I've heard them complain, "comeon man!not a driver, man. ". No no, sir, you're an astronaut if someone sits in the front seat with you....

[sgmitr13]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

I have a unique problem. I keep telling my wife but she is not ready to invest on a baby seat (including ones on OLX/quikr for 1500/-) and secondly, when the baby starts yelling "papa papa" / "appa appa" she becomes sentimental and sits on the front seat with the baby in the lap. I have also told many times to look at countries like USA / UK where educated people make rules. None of it seems to work.

Is there some way to handle it.

On 2 or 3 different occasions (involving my family members) when the passenger unbuckled their front seat belt, I quietly pulled over the car and reasoned with them. I refused to move the car until all are buckled up. This applies to 3 folks in the rear seats as well. At some point when one of them got their infant to the front seat, I once again pulled over and explained how unsafe it is to everyone and refused to move the car. Safety is paramount. Now a days, I don't have to explain, my wife and 2 kids have learnt enough to advise the other family members of these simple rules.

Forget about the kid on the lap, I have seen the educated lots in our neighborhood with kids on the driver's lap.

[IronH4WK]

Originally Posted by mayankk

The way I've done it is to don a figurative chauffeurs hat, in the good sense, and have the Mrs in the back seat, with the baby's car seat.
A lot of men, and even the wives, I've heard them complain, "comeon man!not a driver, man. ". No no, sir, you're an astronaut if someone sits in the front seat with you....

A month or so back the front passenger seat belt had conked and till the time I got it fixed (which took almost a week due to non-availability of the part), wifey (and others traveling with me) was asked to sit at the back. Got to hear (from others) to let her sit in the front, why do want to be like driver and stuff; but I was adamant - she sits at the back or I don't take the car out

For Indians, safety is the last thing on their list, even if it involves their loved ones. God knows when people will learn.

[honeybee]

I do the same with my cars. Both the Accord and the Nano are equipped with special sensors which don't allow the car to be driven till the co driver has buckled up, or so I tell my co driver. This includes my wife and also her uncle who is a staunch believer that it's not the seat belts that save lives (having driven all his life in non seat belt equipped cars). I just ignore the protests.

[KiloAlpha]

Might be slightly off-topic, but here is a perversity.

Those of us who insist on having and using safety features (like seat belts, infant car seats, etc) are anyway safety minded.
This mindset leads us to drive more carefully as well - in marginal scenarios, we tend to avoid those accidents that others might have otherwise gotten into. So we mostly get to our destinations in a more cheerful mood, and live longer.

Those who are not safety minded, don't bother using or wanting to buy any of the available safety features, drive badly, and then when they get into an accident because of their bad driving, they either die or are badly injured because they haven't used/got any safety feature.

[noopster]

^^It's a matter of conditioning- the earlier you start the better and it should be NON NEGOTIABLE.

I've posted on this before: my elder kid is so scared of the airbags exploding in her face that she will never ever sit in the front seat of our Vento. Even in the Swift, which doesn't have airbags, she is most reluctant to do so. The younger one bawls like crazy if she is not buckled into her car seat- go figure!

[vivriti]

Recently , I was in a call taxi travelling on a busy stretch in Chennai during heavy rains. Noticed that many vehicles were not using head/running/fog lights inspite of poor visibility. After another vehicle nearly broadsided the car, I asked the call taxi driver to switch on fog or headlights. He insisted that only people who didn't know how to use mirrors need to do so. Strange logic. Anyways he did switch on the lights after my insistence.

This is a stupid attitude. Not using features already available or poor maintenance. Earlier, driving with folded mirrors, using only one wiper (very common in old Ambassadors) and such was very common. Nowadays, the situation is better but still needs to improve.

[bblost]

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

I have a unique problem. I keep telling my wife but she is not ready to invest on a baby seat (including ones on OLX/quikr for 1500/-) and secondly, when the baby starts yelling "papa papa" / "appa appa" she becomes sentimental and sits on the front seat with the baby in the lap. I have also told many times to look at countries like USA / UK where educated people make rules. None of it seems to work.

The problem is the way you are looking at it. Its not an investment. Its a mandatory safety kit that protects children.

Now and I honestly request you to not misunderstand me and realize that I speak with absolutely good intentions.

Children who get their way with one parent and usually its the mother grow with a very inflated sense of entitlement.

There is one simple experiment that can quickly explain why restraint systems in a car are important. Ask the person questioning them to run full speed into a wall. They would of course refuse. Then remind them that the top speed they will attain is around 18 kmph. If they have any common sense, they will relize that the car usually travels much faster that that.

Incidentally my wife and kids just came from a US holiday.
These were the only expensive things they brought back.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modif...ml#post3615589

[autobahnjpr]

Originally Posted by amikacin

Tragic accident in Jaipur. A doctor couple lost their five month old daughter when their car hit a road divider. The kid was sitting in mother's lap in the front seat and hit the windscreen from the impact. The parents escaped unharmed, however the kid succumbed to head injury sustained from the impact.

As per the news report, "The five-month-old girl Aradhya was in her mother's lap. There was intense fog in the night. Amit was driving the car. While taking a turn at Jawahar Circle, the car hit the divider. The father says that he couldn't see the divider due to fog."

Links: ToI & Dainik Bhaskar

Often we see mothers holding kids in their lap sitting in the front seat. While seat belts restrain the person, kids are thrown forward from the impact. Reiterates the importance of having baby seats for kids.

Being a Jaipurite, I felt very sad reading this the next day in newspapers. I myself has been there infinite number of times and was at a loss to understand how it could have happened. Jawahar circle where the accident happened is very wide circle with a circumference of about a kilometer, very well lit being next door to the Jaipur airport and has police presence almost at all hours. Next to it is the multiplex complex where the couple saw the movie and were returning. There is a service lane for entry and exit and the area is very wide and open. This looked like one of those freak accidents for which there is no rhyme or reason.

In my opinion it is always better to be seated in the back with the child instead of the front seat.

I think the parents have already been punished by losing their child and they need support and not admonishment, advice or throwing rule book at them.

Let us pray for the unfortunate parents who lost their child due to their negligence. I wish and pray that they get strength to overcome the guilt in their lives.