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Old 25th December 2017, 20:59   #181
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Here is how the EV Space in India is shaping up, other than M&M and TATA known EV plans,

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Tata Motors and M&M in October won a government tender to supply 10,000 electric cars

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Old 26th December 2017, 09:23   #182
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

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I am in Sri Lanka right now
Saw cars ranging from Honda Fit Shuffle hybrid, Toyota Corolla axio hybrid, Honda vezel hybrid, Honda Insight hybrid, bmw 530e and many others.
.
Also the Honda City hybrid and the Corolla Aqua hatch. Attaching a small collage of some of the cars. Prius of course is very common.
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The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive-062ef1f9812141b88adf5a76b85dbf44.jpeg  

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Old 26th December 2017, 10:38   #183
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Andhra Pradesh state govt is planning to introduce EV policy which includes many incentives for automakers, battery and charging equipment manufacturers.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/62247503.cms

Some of the highlights in the proposed plan:
  • Policy includes capital subsidies to automakers and charging equipment manufacturers to attract Rs 30,000 crore of investments in the EV industry.
  • Besides capital subsidies, Andhra Pradesh proposes to offer concessional land and power, complete state GST reimbursements, and special incentives for battery manufacturing to draw investments in the electric-vehicle space.
  • Andhra Pradesh proposes policy interventions such as waiving off registration and road tax on the sale of electric vehicles, tendering three-wheeler fleet licences to companies, imposing additional taxes on petrol and diesel vehicles.
  • Andhra Pradesh proposes to set up an electric vehicle park with plug-and-play infrastructure for manufacturing units to start production. All cities of the state will come up with an electric-mobility blueprint. To create demand, the state plans to convert the entire government fleet to electric and shift the complete bus fleet to battery-operated vehicles by 2030
  • Andhra Pradesh will also provide capital subsidy and SGST exemptions for charging infrastructure installations. Land will be made available at concessional rates to charging stations and battery swapping kiosks. Bus terminals, bus stops, government offices and public parkings will compulsorily have charging stations.
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Old 26th December 2017, 10:48   #184
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Great that the State governments are preparing for the EV boom...but with India's huge vehicle demand, and going towards EV's....where is the harder push for charging infrastructure???

When the first Teslas were deployed in the US there was barely a supercharger network. Now you can not miss one. States should be pushing more towards tax breaks to landowners/builders to support charging infrastructure otherwise its gonna be a nightmare!
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Old 27th December 2017, 08:47   #185
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

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When the first Teslas were deployed in the US there was barely a supercharger network. Now you can not miss one. States should be pushing more towards tax breaks to landowners/builders to support charging infrastructure otherwise its gonna be a nightmare!
At the end of the day it is the rule of supply and demand. I am sure many fuel bunks will become charging stations. The market forces (if not messed by the OMC or States) will ensure a rapid and synchronised switch over.
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Old 27th December 2017, 09:03   #186
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

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At the end of the day it is the rule of supply and demand. I am sure many fuel bunks will become charging stations. The market forces (if not messed by the OMC or States) will ensure a rapid and synchronised switch over.
While I agree that the market forces will guide the switch over, I am sceptical that petrol pumps will become charging stations . The reason is filling petrol takes say 3 minutes versus 1/2 hours (even the good chargers). So it is almost impossible to imaging just petrol pumps becoming electric charging stations.

What I envision is something like what happened with STD/ISD booths a few years ago which sort of became mobile service/charging points. You get them everywhere. They are the ideal locations to just buy a charger infrastructure and provide charging for say 2 to 3 cars. People will have a charger at home - so that suffices the basic need. Next is chargers for emergency usage like the ones I mentioned above. Finally comes the highway infrastructure which could be in major food/coffee joints so that as people have food their cars get charged.
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Old 27th December 2017, 10:00   #187
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What I envision is something like what happened with STD/ISD booths a few years ago which sort of became mobile service/charging points. You get them everywhere. ----
Dealer networks too could have charging stations. That is where the top players will have an advantage.
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Old 27th December 2017, 10:32   #188
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

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What I envision is something like what happened with STD/ISD booths a few years ago which sort of became mobile service/charging points. You get them everywhere. They are the ideal locations to just buy a charger infrastructure and provide charging for say 2 to 3 cars. People will have a charger at home - so that suffices the basic need. Next is chargers for emergency usage like the ones I mentioned above. Finally comes the highway infrastructure which could be in major food/coffee joints so that as people have food their cars get charged.
In addition to this, I think all the parking spaces, be it on public spaces/roads or in private malls etc can be prime locations for installing charging points.
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Old 27th December 2017, 10:38   #189
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Dealer networks too could have charging stations. That is where the top players will have an advantage.
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In addition to this, I think all the parking spaces, be it on public spaces/roads or in private malls etc can be prime locations for installing charging points.
Right. And the taxi market might actually adopt a battery swapping mechanism (although I know many have slammed this idea as crazy).

We have a LONG WAY to go no doubt.
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Old 27th December 2017, 11:39   #190
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

At least post Piyush Goel one can safely assume that power will be available. Of course there are hiccups, driving from Gurugram to Lucknow our son was tanking up at the last fuel bunk, the dispenser went off and took over half an hour to come back!
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Old 28th December 2017, 17:35   #191
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

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While I agree that the market forces will guide the switch over, I am sceptical that petrol pumps will become charging stations . The reason is filling petrol takes say 3 minutes versus 1/2 hours (even the good chargers). So it is almost impossible to imaging just petrol pumps becoming electric charging stations.
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Dealer networks too could have charging stations. That is where the top players will have an advantage.
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Originally Posted by vamsi.kona View Post
In addition to this, I think all the parking spaces, be it on public spaces/roads or in private malls etc can be prime locations for installing charging points.
Looking at the next few years, Majority of the EV buyers will have a charging point at his home/office. This is where most of the charging takes place. The public charging infrastructure will be for the one off outstation trips beyond the range of the vehicle.

Those who do not have a charging point or those who require only long distance vehicles will be the bunch of people who will switch over from the ICE technology towards the last phase. And we know that is atleast a decade away from now. For the rest a few charging points at Petrol bunks and public places will be more than enough. People will continue to prefer charging at home or office since that will be the cheapest and convenient option.

We already have a Tesla roadster capable of doing 1000KM per charge. So by 2030/40 we can safely assume most vehicles will have a range equal to or more than 1000KM per charge which further reduces the demand for large no of charging stations for personal vehicles. I really feel 1000KM per charge is like a holy grail. Anything more than 1000KM range will make visiting public charging stations a rare occasion. The commercial vehicles will still have to rely on these charging stations.
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Old 28th December 2017, 18:08   #192
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Do we really need 1000-km range in an EV? I think 500-km of usable, real-world range is quite enough. In the cities, it doesn't matter at all, as I can charge the car at home, or office, or a mall parking lot everyday. If I go out on a highway trip with a full-battery, a 500-km range would give me just over 4 hours of continuous driving range (considering speed limit of 120km/h here in Finland). I am more than likely to stop at least once during these 4 hours to have a 15-20 mins break from driving or even just to stand up for a bit I think the challenge now is not range, but to reduce the size and weight of the battery pack (which improves range too). And, of course, to bring down the cost of buying the vehicle.
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Old 28th December 2017, 18:34   #193
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Do we really need 1000-km range in an EV? I think 500-km of usable, real-world range is quite enough. In the cities, it doesn't matter at all, as I can charge the car at home, or office, or a mall parking lot everyday.
Its just a thought. I'm guessing the majority of the early EV adopters(buyers) will have another car in the house. Further, like you mentioned, in a city like Mumbai, even a 150 km range is sufficient, however, the main reason for a bigger range might be the changing infrastructure. Not all have a dedicated parking slot at home and work where they can charge the car. Hence, most people will prefer to have a range equivalent to atleast a week's worth of commute.

Differential cost of the cars will also matter eg. 500km range and 1000km range variants of the same car will have very less premium I'm guessing since both might have the same battery, with the lower variant's range disabled via software.
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Old 29th December 2017, 02:33   #194
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Its just a thought. I'm guessing the majority of the early EV adopters(buyers) will have another car in the house. Further, like you mentioned, in a city like Mumbai, even a 150 km range is sufficient, however, the main reason for a bigger range might be the changing infrastructure. Not all have a dedicated parking slot at home and work where they can charge the car. Hence, most people will prefer to have a range equivalent to atleast a week's worth of commute.
I think EV era cannot take off without widespread charging infrastructure, and not just dedicated charging stations. Due to the time required to charge them, EV cars would have to be charged when their owners are busy with something else. It could be overnight at home, in office while the owner is working or in a mall when the owner is shopping or watching a movie. If the owner is a taxi driver or a travelling salesman, it could be at a place where he is having lunch. Nobody would like spending 30-90 minutes every week, just to go to a dedicated charging station.

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Differential cost of the cars will also matter eg. 500km range and 1000km range variants of the same car will have very less premium I'm guessing since both might have the same battery, with the lower variant's range disabled via software.
The battery for a 1000-km range car would need to be twice as large (in kWh and weight) than that of a 500-km range car. For eg: Tesla P100D with 335-mile range (500km) uses 100kWh battery. Tesla Roadster uses 200kWh battery to achieve 620-mile range (1000km). Adding each kWh costs money (and weight). Estimates say each kWh would cost $100 by 2030 (now it's nearly $250 per kWh). Using a 1000-km range battery in a 500-km range car would unnecessarily escalate the cost of the 500-km range car.
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Old 29th December 2017, 03:00   #195
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Currently with the Tesla supercharger network, you now get in trouble by Tesla if you leave your vehicle on the charger. Owners are used to this due to the nature of these current generation EV's. With 350kW chargers being deployed in EU and hopefully megachargers being deployed for the Tesla Truck in the US/EU...India needs to prepare for the infrastructure overload.

Already you cant neatly park your car in Bangalore...let alone soon find a place to charge. Probably end up with the same issues we have here in the US where a EV owner finds the parking spot taken by a gas car or commonly known as "ICEed".

Preferably the 100kW range that the Model S/X have is the most ideal with a high power charger to bring you within the 65 to 80 percent range.
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