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Old 8th October 2019, 22:28   #481
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Obviously, the hotels are likely to charge. However that might change. I remember being charged for watching the TV, a charge per movie. It was not that long ago Hotels would charge you for internet / Wifi. These days all of that is available for free, unlimited use more or less.

If a hotel has solar panels it reduces it electricity bill considerably. Currently, in the Netherlands when using commercial fast chargers it will cost you Euro 0,20 per kWh. To give your Tesla a decent charge, say 75 kWh, so that will cost Euro 15.

The price of the necessary infrastructure will come down and the wholesale price of electricity is less than a fraction of that.

So I think it will be only a matter of time before certain hotel chains will offer an overnight charge free of charge for customers. The first one that does it will attract all the road warrior overnight and everybody else will have to follow suit. It is the old marketing problem: one guys value proposition is the next guy freebe. Everybody trying to make money out of EV charging might be overtaken by others giving it away for free as part of their proposition. Once the number of EVs reach a certain critical mass, charging will not be an issue. You will be able to charge everywhere for a very nominal cost or in many cases / venues for free.

Hotels do not need fast charging either, they can charge overnight making use of attractive night time tariffs too.

I see parallels with WiFi. You would not believe the amount of time, resources, money the telecom industry spend on trying to build a business proposition on WiFi as part of their mobile Network Service offering. And then, everybody and I mean everybody is offering it for free. Every shop has WiFi for free.

My own cable provider has installed special modems, essentially a double modem. One is used for my home coverage, the other provides WiFi coverage for any other customer that are near my house. There are places in The Hague and Rotterdam I have better WIFi coverage outdoors than on the Vodafone network. All free of charge on top of my home subscription.

Currently my company has (global) arrangements with car leasing companies, fuel companies (eg Shell) and several international hotel chains. We negotiate standard rates for everything. Once we have a certain percentage of our lease cars converted to EV you can see it coming that we will negotiate with E charging stations, but also Hotels that provide charging at little or no cost are likely to attract our business. An average business hotel room in the Netherland will cost somewhere between euro 110-175 per night including breakfast and the TV and internet. In most European main cities even more. Your average business person is likely to have a few drinks, maybe even dinner. Having to throw in a free EV charge is not a big thing if that attracts customers

Jeroen

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Last edited by Jeroen : 8th October 2019 at 22:43.
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Old 15th October 2019, 19:17   #482
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Electric cars cost double the price of other cars on the market today.

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Will future BEVs reduce the gap?

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Better news could come from India, where analysts predict that Maruti Suzuki will launch the electric Wagon R at $11,243, or 10% less than the country’s total average retail price. The electric Tata Tiago is supposed to go even lower with an entry price of $8,431. Others, like the electric versions of the Tata Tigor, Mahinda KUV100, and Renault Kwid, are not expected to sit far from the current average of $12,541 per unit, currently the world’s lowest.
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Old 16th October 2019, 11:05   #483
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

@Jeroen; I definitely expect to be charged for the 'juice'. Basically they are charging for the 'fuel'. Maybe in the early days they may not charge, but ultimately expect to pay.

It will be interesting how they handle the situation in the parking lots of the condo's.
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Old 16th October 2019, 11:45   #484
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

@sgiitk. We will see how it all plays out. But free EV charging is available already. Most people in this industry do expect forms of free charging in conjunction with other services, products or other conveniences offered. Petrol/diesel has been to expensive to give away as freebie, but as I mentioned the cost of a EV charge is so low, other businesses are likely to consider it to attract EV drivers to their shops, services etc.

Again very similar to my earlier example. At home I pay for my own internet, but when I am travelling I have many options for free internet/WiFi. All offered by companies who give it as a freebie to attract me to sell their services or products. Eg coffee, a hotel room etc

An interesting article on how EV charging might develop:

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/14...nfrastructure/

When thinking this through the most important part to consider how different charging requirements are compared to fuelling requirements. The increasing range of EV will also have an impact on the number of required chargers in an region.

By the time all EVs easily clock 400-500 km range consistently, the need for chargers and more importantly charger location will be impacted. At that sort of range it will be sufficient to have chargers at home locations, hotels etc. As long as you can charge by the end of the day at your chosen place of parking there is little need for charging during the day.

We are at the early phase of a continuous transition when it comes to EVs and what infrastructure it requires.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/www.f...-thinking/amp/

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Last edited by Jeroen : 16th October 2019 at 11:54.
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Old 16th October 2019, 21:11   #485
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

ABB which is also sponsor of Formula E is making a lot of push in eV charging for commercial vehicles especially. I'm thinking this could be the fastest charging station available. Link : https://new.abb.com/news/detail/2310...bus-technology
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Old 22nd October 2019, 14:43   #486
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Quote:
Imagine the satisfaction of driving your environmentally friendly electric car for 1,500 miles without having to stop to recharge the battery a distance more than four times as far as the best and most expensive model currently on the road.

Under the bonnet is a revolutionary new type of battery which, unlike those used in conventional electric cars, can also power buses, huge lorries and even aircraft. What's more, it's far simpler and cheaper to make than the batteries currently in use in millions of electric vehicles around the world and, unlike them, it can easily be recycled.

A new battery has been invented by a Brit, Trevor Jackson, with a possible range of 1500 miles





The secret ingredient is a special electrolyte which is environment friendly and so safe that Jackson drinks it during his demonstrations.



British company Austin has bought the rights to mass market the product. If it is really as good and environment friendly as the article mentions then EVs will be here much faster.


Not sure how true this is, but if so then I believe it would be revolutionary.


Link to Article
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...arging-it.html

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Old 26th October 2019, 17:18   #487
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Three use cases where the Electric vehicle disruption will happen in the next 3-4 years itself in India:

1. Two and Three wheelers: Has been discussed many times on this forum. Apart from the startups and Chinese importers, every major manufacturer has their hand in the EV pie. No need to discuss this further in this post.

2. School buses: Use case is simple. Vans/mini-buses runs for 20-30kms in the morning, are idle for 6-7 hours, and again do a fixed 20-30kms run. Vehicles can easily be charged overnight or during the idle time in the afternoons. Ripe for EV adoption. Acts as brownie (or greenie ) points for the school/college. Your son/daughter will refuse to get dropped in your guzzling SUVs ("How dare you!!! ).

3. Office Shuttles: Similar usage pattern as point 2 above, though the distance traveled will be higher. The buses will serve as 'technology demonstrators' or moving billboards for the manufacturers. "Environment-conscious" employees will shame others from commuting on ICE cars.

In both 2 and 3, the charging infrastructure needs to be given only at few points - At the school/office and 5-6 points across the city for overnight charging. Easily doable.
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Old 26th October 2019, 21:21   #488
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

BESCOM will charge you for charging e-vehicles.

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Bangalore Electricity Supply Company Limited (BESCOM) will be installing 100 chargingpoints at 80 locations. These charging stations can be accessed easily via an app and one can book a slot in advance to avoid any queue.However, users will be charged at a subsidised rate of Rs 5 per unit and the first phase of the project will be launched

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Old 30th October 2019, 16:02   #489
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Hi all,

Came across this comprehensive article by Thomson Reuters, that may shed light on quite a few topics raised on this thread.

Thought I'd share ... https://www.thomsonreuters.com/en/re...-vehicles.html

Will electric vehicles really create a cleaner planet?
We explore what it might take to get to 100% electric vehicle adoption, and the ripple effects the revolution will bring across industries and governments.

Cheers,

FourWheelDrift
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Old 5th November 2019, 13:57   #490
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

With EV, I believe India will end up like the Gold market => importing most of the lithium from foreign shores. This might be similar to Oil being imported, but there is a OPEC forum to ensure constant supply, as compared to signing independent MOUs which might fall apart any time. Given that Bolivia is the primarily lithium market, might not be too far before we see Indian conglomerates trying to acquire mines there .
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Old 5th November 2019, 18:22   #491
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Hybrids gaining ground in China amidst slumping EV sales.

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Chinese new-vehicle market is undergoing a major shift as the demand for hybrid vehicles is rising steadily, compared to EVs whose sales have dampened after the government is set to phase out subsidies for electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid models by the end of 2020,
Quote:
Petrol hybrids are aiming to grab more market share as the Chinese government has slashed more than 60 per cent subsidies for the EVs and halved the incentives for plug-in hybrids between April - June. The decision has clearly reflected in EV sales which have taken a plunge in the last three months

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Old 5th November 2019, 19:33   #492
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

James May going EV. You might not agree with all he says, but he does bring some interesting perspective. Or at least I think so.

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Old 5th November 2019, 21:31   #493
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

^^^
You could have given us back eight minutes of our time by distilling his thoughts into one sentence - 'if the rest of the world takes to electric cars, we enthusiasts can then slip in under the radar with our polluting noisy socially irresponsible IC engined cars'.

But if the numbers vanish, so will the ecosystem. The last exciting affordable cars will be the cars of our generation. The third world will be slow to go electric. But new exciting cars are not going to out of there.

Regards
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Old 6th November 2019, 00:38   #494
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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
^^^
You could have given us back eight minutes of our time by distilling his thoughts into one sentence
I could have, but not with James May!

I genuinely like the guy and how he presents these things.

Mostly known for his involvement with TopGear, Grand Tour, Clarkson and Hammond of course. But his own series are definitely worth watching. From planes, to toys, wine sampling and reassembling various ordinary house hold machinery.

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Old 6th November 2019, 10:23   #495
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Default Re: The Electric Vehicle (EV) Landscape - A Deep Dive

Germany increases subsidies for EVs and extends them till 2025. The purchase subsidies would increase from 4,000 euros ($4,426) to 6,000 euros ($6,641) on cars worth less than 40,000 euros ($44,294). EVs costing more than 40,000 euros and less than 65,000 euros will have a subsidy increase to 5,000 euros ($5,535). For plug-in hybrids in this price class, car owners will receive 4,500 euros instead of 3,000 euros. The cost of the subsidies will be split evenly between the German government and the car industry.

Source:
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/11/04/...sidies-vw-id3/
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