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Old 6th April 2018, 16:38   #1
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Default Electric Cars will bring 'one pedal driving'

Conventionally, manual transmission cars have 3 pedals - clutch, brake and accelerator. The automatic transmission cars eliminated the clutch pedal and looks like the future electric cars will get rid of the brake pedal as well.

In an electric vehicle (EV), the battery supplies the electricity to the motors, which in turn power the wheels. When EVs slow down, or need to come to a stop, the motor acts as a generator to recharge the batteries while at the same time as slowing down the car. This is known as brake energy regeneration. While, manufacturers will vary their settings on how aggressive this regeneration will be in their cars, the conventional brakes will be used in case of panic braking.

The Chevrolet Bolt EV gets the 'one pedal driving' mode, albeit only in the Low mode. In this mode, the car will slow down once the accelerator is released, without the need to press the brakes. It will even come to a complete stop if that is needed. This way, the energy from slowing down the car is regenerated and stored in the car battery, thereby increasing the car's total range. Regeneration works even when the car is coming down a slope.

While the Bolt EV does come with a brake pedal, the company advises to use it only when urgent braking is needed in the Low mode. Also, while driving in D mode, you will have to be dependent on the conventional brakes. In case of batteries being fully charged, the regeneration system may not work optimally and driver must use the brakes even in Low mode. Such systems reduce the wear and tear of the brake systems in an electric car.



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Last edited by blackwasp : 6th April 2018 at 16:42.
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Old 6th April 2018, 17:06   #2
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Default Re: Electric Cars will bring 'one pedal driving'

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwasp View Post
The Chevrolet Bolt EV gets the 'one pedal driving' mode, albeit only in the Low mode. In this mode, the car will slow down once the accelerator is released, without the need to press the brakes. It will even come to a complete stop if that is needed. This way, the energy from slowing down the car is regenerated and stored in the car battery, thereby increasing the car's total range. Regeneration works even when the car is coming down a slope.
The benefit of having brake pedal is that brake force can modulated as per need, something which won't happen here since regenerative braking force will remain constant.

What can be done is that the regenerative braking be tuned such that there is minimal regeneration when accelerator pedal is released (akin to coasting in neutral gear). Then, brake pedal should be linked to regenerative force so that it increases with pressing of the pedal. Further, the regenerative force can be maximum around half-way depressed pedal and pressing the pedal more should apply conventional brakes.

This should give the benefits of regeneration under all circumstances with safety net of conventional braking.
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Old 6th April 2018, 17:09   #3
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Default Re: Electric Cars will bring 'one pedal driving'

What if car needs emergency braking? What must driver do then if there is only 1 accelerate pedal? Hand braking?

Short info: Regeneration during braking and Coasting features are already in current hybrid drives and electric drive.
In 48V hybrids there are 2 batteries, a 48V and another standard 12V. During regeneration and coasting 48V battery is charged and through DC-DC converter between batteries the 12V battery is charged.

-UB
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Old 6th April 2018, 17:55   #4
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Default Re: Electric Cars will bring 'one pedal driving'

How about we eliminate that also and just suck the life out of driving pleasure all together?

The biggest problem? My above statement might just come true due to autonomous driving, one day..maybe many years later. No steering, no pedals, just a big screen, to use social media and watch garbage videos even while driving a car (wait...isn’t that currently happening in Tesla cars?!!)

Sorry for the rant but news like this really gets my goat.

I hope that if this kind of tech goes mainstream, it should be given as a ‘mode’. Say ‘Cab Mode’. When you’ve had a bad day, and the traffic is just crazy on the way home..just activate it and sit back.

Last edited by The Brutailer : 6th April 2018 at 17:59.
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Old 6th April 2018, 19:14   #5
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Default Re: Electric Cars will bring 'one pedal driving'

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Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
How about we eliminate that also and just suck the life out of driving pleasure all together?

The biggest problem? My above statement might just come true due to autonomous driving, one day..maybe many years later. No steering, no pedals, just a big screen, to use social media and watch garbage videos even while driving a car (wait...isn’t that currently happening in Tesla cars?!!)

Sorry for the rant but news like this really gets my goat.

I hope that if this kind of tech goes mainstream, it should be given as a ‘mode’. Say ‘Cab Mode’. When you’ve had a bad day, and the traffic is just crazy on the way home..just activate it and sit back.

So true. I sometimes feel the golden days of motoring already over. Soon the cars that we will be driving will actually be "standardized pods" with a big brother leash and electronic nannies doing the real driving. I am thinking of developing a new passion to prevent depression. May be bicycles. At least i can work with my hands, drive the way i like.
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Old 6th April 2018, 19:28   #6
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Default Re: Electric Cars will bring 'one pedal driving'

While I have never been able to understand any of these things or features as one may say that the EVs have in their pockets to offer, one thing is for sure and that is we enthusiasts don't have a very welcoming future to speak of with all those self driving autonomous cars or whatever they call it, EVs etc just at the bay.

Speaking of enthusiasts, whom I feel the most sorry for is those below 23, myself included, who swear by and protect/love cars till their last breath, but are still finding pleasure only behind parents', friends' cars or say have some time till we get our own steed . By the time we earn and have a million to buy a turbo diesel hatchback, history books will already start printing chapters on combustion engines.
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Old 6th April 2018, 19:41   #7
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Default Re: Electric Cars will bring 'one pedal driving'

I have some experience with single pedal driving while using a rental BMW i3 for a few hours. I am also extremely keen on electric cars and electric drive in general so hopefully I can help.

First things first - single pedal driving in the current form as featured by the Nissan Leaf, BMW i3, Chevy Bolt etc - these cars all have brake pedals. The single pedal idea is that in most conditions if you time your deceleration by noticing signals, upcoming turns, etc, you can have the car regenerate when you lift off the pedal. Having driven one of these cars, I can say, the idea is amazing in stop-and-go traffic and in regular driving. I could not find the switch to turn it off in the BMW, I believe that's in the menu. Happily, though, Nissan and Chevrolet have a way to turn off this aggressive regeneration so that lift off equals coasting and not deceleration. Driver's choice. Situation's choice. Good stuff. Furthermore, when using single pedal driving, the car does not roll forward or back on hills or in traffic. Stop is stop. Again, a boon for city driving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksameer1234 View Post
The benefit of having brake pedal is that brake force can modulated as per need, something which won't happen here since regenerative braking force will remain constant.
Certain manufacturers - Honda's new Insight plug in hybrid as an example - are using paddle shifters on the steering column to modulate the level of regeneration. So you can "shift down" and it slows more or "shift up" and it slows less. I think this is the absolute ideal implementation of one pedal driving although in the Honda, the regeneration is never aggressive enough to stop the car. It is more like off-low-medium and nothing more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UB_007 View Post
What if car needs emergency braking? What must driver do then if there is only 1 accelerate pedal? Hand braking?

-UB
As said above, all these cars have two pedals. Brake pedal will never be eliminated because laws will prevent that and rightly so. Single pedal is for regular daily driving in normal, non emergency circumstances. In any case, most new cars are getting autonomous emergency braking, so that safety net is added as well. How such a system will do in India remains to be seen. Perhaps always braking in a permanent emergency state!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
How about we eliminate that also and just suck the life out of driving pleasure all together?

The biggest problem? My above statement might just come true due to autonomous driving, one day..maybe many years later. No steering, no pedals, just a big screen, to use social media and watch garbage videos even while driving a car (wait...isn’t that currently happening in Tesla cars?!!)
Not to worry, driving pleasure is available in modern electric cars. The lack of engine noise is a bummer, but the instant zip is just something worth trying. Tesla has an 'autopilot' mode but that is user switchable on or off. If you're tired, go auto. If you're in the mood on your favourite ghat road, go for it.

As far as full autonomy goes, it's great for a commute/taxi/old person/disabled or injured person. It will not be mandatory for decades.
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Old 7th April 2018, 01:11   #8
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Default Re: Electric Cars will bring 'one pedal driving'

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Originally Posted by blackwasp View Post
the future electric cars will get rid of the brake pedal as well.
I think manual steering and braking won't be completely eliminated. They will continue to exist in future for safety override. May be not in the form of a wheel and a pedal but in some evolution.

To an extent, all hybrids & EVs support single pedal driving due to regenerative braking. Looks like manufacturers are putting extra effort to market this feature. One "new" feature to market their product.

Anyone who has ever driven a electric motor gets used to single pedal driving pretty quickly. In a conventional petrol car, we usually rely on engine braking to decelerate the car. Each car will have its own engine braking "feel" but its never strong to decelerate quickly or stop a car on its own. We tend to get used to how a certain car behaves to engine braking and complement it with our own braking to stop the car.

In a very similar fashion, we rely on regenerative braking to decelerate a hybrid/EV car. Each car will have its own regenerative braking "feel", and we tend to get used to how a car decelerates on its own. Many a time the car can come to a near-stop on its own, but many a time, we would still need to complement it with our own braking.

This feature will not "suck" the driving pleasure out of a hybrid/EV car. Its just the inherent nature of these cars. It is akin to saying engine braking "sucks" the driving pleasure out of a petrol car.
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Old 7th April 2018, 07:53   #9
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Default Re: Electric Cars will bring 'one pedal driving'

No one can stop a paradigm shift, the reasons could be just technological developments or driven by policy (reduction in use of fossil fuel based vehicles).

If all the pedals have to go, they will eventually go! I am sure even we will figure out new ways and means of finding pleasure and peace which we get with driving now and come to terms with the future.

Interconnected life is the future. During my student life (about 25 years ago), I had never imagined the life I am leading now wherein even for the smallest possible thing, I look for an app in my phone. But everyone including me find it comforting to crib about loss of privacy, true?

I am game for change !!

Last edited by i74js : 7th April 2018 at 07:55.
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Old 7th April 2018, 08:56   #10
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Default Re: Electric Cars will bring 'one pedal driving'

I don't see as to how this is even news.. this electric car domain has brought so much confusion to the landscape of driving. So far :

1) Ford patented removable pedals and steering.

2) Autonomous driving with all controls as standard.

3) Autonomous driving with no controls as standard.

4) Automatic emergency braking with rest of the driving as human dependent.

5) Single pedal driving with the accelerator acting as brakes when eased off.

Choose a method and get on with it We all know that organized, GPS based, mapping based autonomous driving inside electric cars is the future that awaits us. Electrical and electronic engineering can make any form of driving possible as it just interpreting and translating physical or verbal inputs into mechanical action - driving can be gesture based, voice based, smartphone based or simply programmed in a way that acceleration can be done by even brain mapping helmets lol (Neuralink of Musk).

As for what I feel.. I hate technology as it is including the internet.
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Old 7th April 2018, 18:11   #11
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Default Re: Electric Cars will bring 'one pedal driving'

So, the liberty of having two pedals now (three-pedal have already started to disappear, sadly) is also a matter of concern. Probably a bad time for us car enthusiasts who enjoy driving and have given Driving pleasure a priority over the convenience or ease of use

Last edited by Varun_HexaGuy : 7th April 2018 at 18:35.
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Old 7th April 2018, 18:58   #12
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Default Re: Electric Cars will bring 'one pedal driving'

Actually single pedal driving is a very old technique. Often seen in bus drivers (esp in Kerala). The horn is used instead of the brake to get people out of the way.
On a serious note, emergency braking can be linked to the horn. If you sound the horn, the vehicle comes to an immediate stop. Otherwise the radars assess the situation and apply braking force as needed. IIRC team overdrive/ autocar once drove a Volvo car from Mumbai to Pune without touching the brake once. This was a few years ago.
This could also mean an elimination of all pedals and a throttle lever like in boats or airplanes.
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Old 8th April 2018, 15:35   #13
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Default Re: Electric Cars will bring 'one pedal driving'

Remember the max torque of the electric motor is at stall. So the gear becomes an anachronism. Also, these days the AMT / CVT is increasingly becoming the norm.
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Old 12th April 2018, 14:06   #14
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Default Re: Electric Cars will bring 'one pedal driving'

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brutailer View Post
Sorry for the rant but news like this really gets my goat.

I hope that if this kind of tech goes mainstream, it should be given as a ‘mode’. Say ‘Cab Mode’. When you’ve had a bad day, and the traffic is just crazy on the way home..just activate it and sit back.
I hope that you realize that you will need to pay extra to 'drive' the car as against being autonomously driven. Given the fact that autonomous mode will not be prone to 'human error' you driving yourself will be a massive threat to yourself as well as other cars.

Hence, if you intend to unlock the 'non-autonomous drive mode' you will need to first deposit USD 1 Million with the insurance company, get yourself pierced at various places to establish soundness of mind, body and lack of addiction.

You will also need to submit all your social media feeds of last 6 years to the state security so that the AI programs can establish degree of sanity and degree of affiliation to violent causes like terror groups etc.

Stop ranting and build yourself a soap box car. I know a nice hill that I am happy to race down, competing with you!
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